The great debate

[jbird]

With the loop off the master is on full. I think i explained this in my last post.

And if you dont know the difference between people who can EQ good and people that can EQ bad, well then you havent been in this business long enough.

Because in 22 years of playing I have learned alot about amps, not only how to EQ them, but how they work, under what conditions they work best etc...

OK, try this then: Turn the master on full with the loop off, then turn the loop on. If your claim is correct, then there should be no difference? Right? Wrong!

Umm, EQ'n is of a personal preferance, there is no good or bad? Because Korn dumps they're treble, means they're bad EQer's?

Because you've been playing for 22 years, gives you no knowledge on the nuances of how different amps work! Taking the time to learn these nuances though is a trait of maturity, for sure!

 

[Platypus]

siggy14, I don't know what I said to produce a rant like that but maybe you should read my whole post next time before flying off the handle on a soapbox rant.

I spent almost 3 years tweaking basically everything I could on the Recto and could never get a tone I was happy with except the recto sound. I spent forever trying tubes, settings, etc. It does the Recto thing really well but it just can't hold a candle to the cleans and leads of something from the Mark series. This is not a fault of the amp at all, it's just made for people who like that sound. I found out while I dig the recto crush, the Mark just provides so much more it's astounding.

I bolded the important part you missed.

We are in agreement on this issue.. no need for hostility..

I'm glad there are differing opinions on stuff like this, I'm not taking a jab at the Rectifier series, I was giving my experience with them. I enjoyed mine for 3 years before finding I enjoyed something else more... that's how it goes as I'm sure you know. I go through amps very often. I got some great tones out of my rectifier on all the channels.. I just feel that the Mark is more versatile, we don't agree here, no big deal. I think the 5 band EQ on the Mark series is an amazing asset that provides a whole different world of sounds to tweak. This is why I hold it above the rectos, they each make great tones. I wouldn't have kept my DR for 3 years if I thought it sucked.

The reason I mentioned that 'it's good at that recto tone' is because to me that's all I would use it for because my tastes differ and I use other amps for different sounds. I ended up selling mine because it became a giant stompbox for me when I wanted that recto crush and I'd use fuzzes or OD's to drive the amp wide open otherwise because the fizzyness was overbearing. I got it to sound great with EL34L's

Anyway, the point is that while I encourage you to speak your mind, try to not take things personally.

 

[siggy14]

OK once you make the loop active alot more things come into play, like the front loop control, the solo control and the mix and send level in the back and the channel masters in the front, so it will never be the same. Now when you have it off the volume is controlled by the channel masters because the global master is already considered at full. That is my point, if you cant understand, well then i am done trying to explain it to you.

As to the EQ, yes there is good and bad, i have heard people EQ it so it is so buzzy that it is disgusting, I have heard people EQ it to the point you cant hear them in the mix, so yes there is a wrong and right way to EQ. You can keep arguing that if you want, but once i am not going too.

22 years of playing, I have probaly owned more amps then alot of people combined on this board. Dont ever preach to me about differences in amps, because ic an sure as hell tell you about differences in amps.

I am not going to keep argueing with you, because it reall is not worth it.

With the loop off the master is on full. I think i explained this in my last post.

And if you dont know the difference between people who can EQ good and people that can EQ bad, well then you havent been in this business long enough.

Because in 22 years of playing I have learned alot about amps, not only how to EQ them, but how they work, under what conditions they work best etc...

OK, try this then: Turn the master on full with the loop off, then turn the loop on. If your claim is correct, then there should be no difference? Right? Wrong!

Umm, EQ'n is of a personal preferance, there is no good or bad? Because Korn dumps they're treble, means they're bad EQer's?

Because you've been playing for 22 years, gives you no knowledge on the nuances of how different amps work! Taking the time to learn these nuances though is a trait of maturity, for sure!

 

[siggy14]

It is not so much the opinions, it is the way the people express there opinions. They make them seem like that the Mark IV is the best amp out of all boogie amps, but they dont give reasons that support it, or they think everyone should have a Mark IV.

Well I can tell you that the Mark IV is not for everyone and I would like to see some more Biased opinions on this board. i have seen so many people pointed in the wrong direction because of crappy opinions. When i say crappy opinions, i dont mean the mark is a crappy amp, i just mean people need to learn to listen to the people asking for opinions more to give a real good opinion on the best amp for them, not what would you consider the best amp for your tastes.

But back to the thread, MY POINT in this thread and the rest of the post's is STOP TELLING everyone that the Mark IV is the best amp. It is a great amp, but so is the recto. But just because a Mark IV might be right for someone does not mean it is right for everyone. Just like the Rec is a great amp and it might be right for some people and not right for other people.

I know one thing, if i was a new person looking for an amp and i got a whole bunch of buy this amp, and then i go and spend 1200 to 1900 dollars on an amp and get it home and it is completly not my thing, I would be really pissed!

But that is the thing, people on this board will be quick to jump and say get the Mark IV just because it is there favorite.

Hey if someone asks my opinion I give it. What's the big deal? If you don't like the Mark IV well, ok then. If someone buys an amp off of someone's recommendation without doing their own homework is just not a smart person IMO and probably needs a few lessons on how to spend large sums of money.

I don't understand why you are so heated that the people who favor a particular amp will recommend it to others. If that wasn't the case then I wouldn't own any of the stuff that I do now because I can't try it. Maybe Mesa isn't even the right company for this guy for what he's looking for. Then would it be your fault if he bought another Mesa at your recommendation just to find that he wasn't completely satisfied with it? Just give your recommendation and move on. Unless you have some valid points as to why he shouldn't go with something leave it alone.

You are on the verge of being put on time out and getting your dessert taken away.

Greg

 

[siggy14]

Plat,

it was more to the first post you did where you claimed that the mark iv was the best amp of the bunch. But the rant is not so much against you as it is against everyone that usually does not listen to the poster and just intantly says Mark IV.

siggy14, I don't know what I said to produce a rant like that but maybe you should read my whole post next time before flying off the handle on a soapbox rant.

I spent almost 3 years tweaking basically everything I could on the Recto and could never get a tone I was happy with except the recto sound. I spent forever trying tubes, settings, etc. It does the Recto thing really well but it just can't hold a candle to the cleans and leads of something from the Mark series. This is not a fault of the amp at all, it's just made for people who like that sound. I found out while I dig the recto crush, the Mark just provides so much more it's astounding.

I bolded the important part you missed.

We are in agreement on this issue.. no need for hostility..

I'm glad there are differing opinions on stuff like this, I'm not taking a jab at the Rectifier series, I was giving my experience with them. I enjoyed mine for 3 years before finding I enjoyed something else more... that's how it goes as I'm sure you know. I go through amps very often. I got some great tones out of my rectifier on all the channels.. I just feel that the Mark is more versatile, we don't agree here, no big deal. I think the 5 band EQ on the Mark series is an amazing asset that provides a whole different world of sounds to tweak. This is why I hold it above the rectos, they each make great tones. I wouldn't have kept my DR for 3 years if I thought it sucked.

The reason I mentioned that 'it's good at that recto tone' is because to me that's all I would use it for because my tastes differ and I use other amps for different sounds. I ended up selling mine because it became a giant stompbox for me when I wanted that recto crush and I'd use fuzzes or OD's to drive the amp wide open otherwise because the fizzyness was overbearing. I got it to sound great with EL34L's

Anyway, the point is that while I encourage you to speak your mind, try to not take things personally.

 

[Russ]

If it hasn't become obvious yet, to a point eq'ing is totally objective. It is whatever you need it to be. In the end, the user will find out what it is that he/she needs to do to create the tone that they are looking for. I have been playing for over 20 years myself and I still find that at times I can get stuck tonally. What helps music to evolve is the constant pushing of boundaries and the use of an atypical/original tone. Yes, Korn had an original sound. Is it the ultimate tone for everyone? No. Is playing a IIC+ in Hetfield fashion the best tone? No. It all depends upon personal taste and what woks best for the individual. Diversity is a very nice option. Is it necessary? No. Some will want more than a basic single solitary type of tone though. With this in mind it is best to have the most tools at your disposal and to keep your mind open. Without intentionally disrepecting anyone, I will say that sometimes we get so concerned about our own personal tone findings in our individual tone quest that we find it necessary to attempt to make others also believe in what we have found thus being passionate about our opinions. Having played all kinds of music I can say that there are some tones that really fit an individual's style of playing and other gear. There are definitely some amps that are geared to certain tones. It may not be everyone's perceived holy grail either. For example, siggy14 has his MP1 and JMP-1. Personally, I cannot stand those preamps anymore. I would much rather play my '77 JMP or my '88 JCM800 than the JMP-1. Is it wrong for him to like those? No. It is his choice and his taste. I am sure he gets great tones out of them. They just weren't my preference. Actually, I now prefer my Mark IV to my JCM800 and pick up the rest of the real Marshall sound from the JMP. The MP1 to me always sounded too synthetic. Which is why I don't own either the MP1 nor the JMP-1 though I have had them. I just find the organic tone and feel of a real head to be more of my taste. Does/can anyone else hear it or feel it? Maybe. Does it matter? Not really. I cannot say that I would ever buy a Peavey anything much less a solidstate amp but there are those that feel that they are worthy and useful for some purpose. I once owned an old Bandit that was ok for a practice amp but I have since found no need for practice amps. To me, you might as well play your actual rig. My girlfriend owns a Roland Microcube. I can see her pleasure playing it and see its worth to those wanting one. The XTC siggy14 owns is a killer amp. Would I like one? Possibly. I prefer the Shiva to the XTC though. Would I sell my JMP and get one? Probably not, ever. I also feel that the early Dual Rec is another one of those amps that is irreplaceable as he does along with elpelotero, Boogiebabies and others. I wouldn't say I prefer the Dual Rec leads over the Mark IV leads but again it is all about personal taste. Sometimes I prefer the JMP leads over the Mark IV. It all depends upon what you are doing musically with your gear. I do believe in a diversified rig though. By this, I mean having all the tones that you might want at your disposal. Realistically, I would probably ditch the JCM800 and the Mark IV if I came into a deal on a H&K Triamp, but that is just me. I am sure that there are others here that would totally disagree with that choice or even what I have spewed thus far. Again, tone is individual. What makes tone stand out is the use of it. Some of the greatest tones came from really basic setups. Would you want to be stuck with the handful of tones from a really basic rig? Probably not. You could probably get by for a while but you would eventually want more or something else. For these reasons I feel that a simple Rec and Mark setup is pretty much all anyone would need from a Mesa palette to have the diversity necessary to stay satisfied for a long period of time. Sure, it would be nice to have a couple Marshalls and Fenders in the mix too but that isn't the intention of this thread.

 

[Platypus]

I see.. well maybe I should clarify next time.. but the reason I suggested the Mark was that he already has a recto and it was the next obvious choice in the list if he wanted a different sound. I don't blanket statement or make generalizations like the 'they' you refer to in your post. I know what you mean and that pisses me off too, but typically I say 'I think this, I found this, etc' in my posts.

I don't make it a habit to troll threads with bad advice about amplifiers.. if anything I try to do the exact opposite and give people a real opinion on a piece of gear that you can't find a single bad review of.

Anyway, we're in total agreement about the subject at hand here.

Plat,

it was more to the first post you did where you claimed that the mark iv was the best amp of the bunch. But the rant is not so much against you as it is against everyone that usually does not listen to the poster and just intantly says Mark IV.

siggy14, I don't know what I said to produce a rant like that but maybe you should read my whole post next time before flying off the handle on a soapbox rant.

I spent almost 3 years tweaking basically everything I could on the Recto and could never get a tone I was happy with except the recto sound. I spent forever trying tubes, settings, etc. It does the Recto thing really well but it just can't hold a candle to the cleans and leads of something from the Mark series. This is not a fault of the amp at all, it's just made for people who like that sound. I found out while I dig the recto crush, the Mark just provides so much more it's astounding.

I bolded the important part you missed.

We are in agreement on this issue.. no need for hostility..

I'm glad there are differing opinions on stuff like this, I'm not taking a jab at the Rectifier series, I was giving my experience with them. I enjoyed mine for 3 years before finding I enjoyed something else more... that's how it goes as I'm sure you know. I go through amps very often. I got some great tones out of my rectifier on all the channels.. I just feel that the Mark is more versatile, we don't agree here, no big deal. I think the 5 band EQ on the Mark series is an amazing asset that provides a whole different world of sounds to tweak. This is why I hold it above the rectos, they each make great tones. I wouldn't have kept my DR for 3 years if I thought it sucked.

The reason I mentioned that 'it's good at that recto tone' is because to me that's all I would use it for because my tastes differ and I use other amps for different sounds. I ended up selling mine because it became a giant stompbox for me when I wanted that recto crush and I'd use fuzzes or OD's to drive the amp wide open otherwise because the fizzyness was overbearing. I got it to sound great with EL34L's

Anyway, the point is that while I encourage you to speak your mind, try to not take things personally.

 

[jbird]

The Channel Masters and Master Output are basically parallel outputs! Until you engage the loop, thus reconfiguring the channel masters as effects level sends! The Global ouput is inactive when the loop is bypassed! It is not considered at full!

 

[andrew_1990]

Out of that bunch i would go the Mark IV head but otherwise the roadking series II.

 

[pilebuck23]

:? you guys arguing makes for very entertaining reading!!! Bottom line--playing guitar is fun. If it sounds good to you it is good. If been playing around 17 years( not that it matters) Attention young people, I am going to impart a little wisdom. People will always tell you older is better( probably because they too are old, and their gear is as well,..again not that it matters, also they will tell you back in the old days we had it so rough_____ insert something that is really irrelevant that you could care less about. Les Paul said he prefers the sound out of the newer pickups on his guitars than the original ones that people pay like 50,000 bucks for. Some people just like to be tone snobs and it kind of takes away from the coolness of music. Some old ladies like to collect cats. What am I getting at??WHO CARES. In my lame opinion I think one of the stupidist things in guitar mags are the best guitarist ever polls. Its apples and oranges. I dont think you can compare blues and classical. I think they are both cool but I wouldnt try to assign a numerical value as to how cool they are. Yngwie can sure shred, but I can chill out a lot better to steve miller. Ive owned tons of gear and have tons of expensive guitars and amps, and I honestly enjoy my solid state amps as much as my tubes. I like mesa because they are hand made in the US and they sound good. Period. rec vs. marks?? I would be interested to hear what the guys at mesa would have to say. this thread was for entertainment purposes only, contained no valuable information, and you are in fact now more stupid for having read it.

 

[mesanomad100]

No I think it hold valuable information!!!!

We can see the different views on amps which belive it or not,does help someone make a decision,I have a rec,I love it I was asking out of these amp(and the users experiance obviously),which of these amps would be a good one to try out next,

i can see on every thread like this the majority of boogiers saying MKIV,I have my opinion on this and that is alot of the guys are genuinly stating that the MKIV is the best of the bunch for its versitility but in some cases the poster already knows this but what they are actully lookin for is a recto tone,


So,If one man thinks this about a certain amp get it known,get it out there let people know,I can tell you some of the tonal tips I have learned about my 3 channel were all from supposed 'rants' like this,one guy suggests this way to EQ...His opinion I then set my amp like this,dont really like the amount of say treble so I cut it back!!!!!!Understand

Please refrain from telling people that there posts are useless because even for me(I was the original poster)these views are really valuable,helps me trouble shoot an amp quicker


AT THE END OF THE DAY,ITS ALL ABOUT THE MUSIC..........THE REAL REASON WE ARE HERE EHHHHHH,ITS WHAT WE ALL HAVE MOST IN COMMON HERE,OUR LOVE OF MUSIC,

we wouldnt spend this much money on boogies if it werent to help gain that wonderful tone which enriches our music,we wouldnt spend so much time on this board "helping" others out with our opinions on certain amps...........................This was gonna happen with the nature of the thread,I was asking one half of the boogie board(the recto's) to help me make decision as to wether I should stay recto and get an old 'holy' recto or go the way of the MK series,see if its here where I would like to go with my tonal needs,obviously the other half of the board(the MK's) are gonna be biased towards the MK's


I have taken alot from this thread and Im sure others will,WE all are grown up enough on this forum to that everyone has an opinion,never a wrong one but one that clashes with yours


................................................................................

 

[mesanomad100]

ohhh yeah,just look at the threads heading..........of coarse there will be people DEBATING over which one to choose,just dont take it personally,it other peoples opinions on the amps Im lookin for

 

[Joshusama]

Are mom and dad going to divorce?

 

[Jak0lantern01]

I say we all switch to Bogners. DOH!

 

[Platypus]

Are mom and dad going to divorce?

GO BACK TO YOUR ROOM :lol:

 

[Russ]

Or closet... :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[mesanomad100]

or....................................fridge(ian as in phrygian,Im a geek) :wink:

 

[Russ]

You are a geek.... J/k :lol:

 

[disassembled]

Why aren't we debating anymore?

Now this thread sucks. Thanks assholes!


Greg

 

[mrdylan]

Well if you want to argue I have yet to find a tube amp that sounds good at low volumes in my almost 20 years of playing deal with that.

None not one has sounded better than solid state at apartment playing levels. This is actually where solid state exceeds tube amps. For jamming or live playing tubes 100%

:twisted: