Studio .22+ (non-GEQ) vs. DC-3

[Don]

You might consider this to be an apples to oranges comparison, but...

I have an ’89 Studio .22+ (non-GEQ) in good stock condition, except that it has a Lead Drive control added, and a mid ‘90s DC-3 (Ver. B) combo in similar condition. The Studio has the Mesa labeled Eminence speaker and the DC-3 has a Celestion V30.

I play blues and classic rock with a band that usually plays in smaller places. I mic my amp with a Sennheiser e906 when we play bigger places or outdoors. Either amp is loud enough.

I have a Thiele cab with an EVM12L that matches both amps well.

I have too many amps to keep them both. I’ve spent some time with both amps with an A/B switch and various guitars and effects though I have not played both of them with the band (just the Studio .22+).

I think I know which one I prefer, but if you had to choose between the two which would you pick and why?

 

[amrose57]

For me, the separate tone stacks and the extra 2 EL84's (more headroom) make the DC3 the winner.

Al

 

[Don]

The DC-3 definitely has more headroom and, being a true two channel amp, has a lot more flexibility.

 

[Don]

These really are very different amps. The clean sounds are very similar though the DC-3 is a little fatter, bolder, warmer... maybe due to it putting out almost twice as much power and having the Celestion Speaker.

The lead sounds are very different-

-The Studio's lead mode is very flutey and musical- voiced somewhat like an old Mark, and it can be smoothed out by turning down the guitar's volume a hair. I prefer it but it can be difficult to access live if you also want a great clean tone and I don't think it would even be appreciated in a live situation.

-The DC-3's lead channel is much more modern sounding. It's grainy and textured and has less character though it works better with chords than the Studio's lead mode. It still has a ton of mids though they can be dialed out with the GEQ.

In the end, I think the clean sound is more important, though my Vibrolux Reverb is better than both of them (though different- brighter, more "transparent", less punchy) in that department and it weighs the same as the DC-3.

 

[dodger916]

I tried a V-30 with my DC-3 head and didn't like it at all. Now playing through an MS-12 open back atop an EVM12L-loaded Thiele. I did a bit of preamp tube rolling and was able to tame the lead channel a bit, though the Rhy channel gets the bulk of my playing because its so friggin' sweet! Like you, I also prefer the Lead channel in the Studio, though the one I played had GEQ and sounded very Mark-like, which I prefer. The best Mesa lead sound I ever heard, or I should say my favorite Boogie lead sound (straight in and out) erupted from a Subway Rocket, but its Rhy channel sounded lifeless and over-compressed.

The DC-3 has become my #1. For me the Rhy channel is perfect and takes pedals very well. For lead I run medium overdrive and/or compression pedals just to kick the preamp into tight overdrive. There's plenty of distortion available in the Lead channel, and I have coaxed good tones when I stopped expecting it to be something it wasn't, namely a Mark. Preamp tubes helped a lot.

 

[Don]

Great reply! I actually like the V-30 though I haven't tried other speakers alone with the amp DC3. Though I prefer the Studio's lead sound, I think the it really needs the GEQ to shape the mids. When I bought my DC3 the GEQ was broken and I really did not like the lead sound w/o the GEQ- way too much mids (could be the V30).

I just repaired a basket case Marshall JCM2000 DSL401 that I bought a while ago and was enjoying its lead sound though the DC3 killed it with it's clean sound (and build quality and pretty much everything else). I spent some time going back and forth between the Marshall and the DC3, tweaking the DC3 to get more of a Marshall like lead sound from it and actually like it a lot.

I also had a Subway Rocket and loved the lead sound and portability. The rhythm sound left a lot to be desired! It didn't seem too bad until I built a similarly sized Princeton Reverb clone...

One thing that still gets me about the Studio- it's so lightweight!

 

[amrose57]

I have a DC2 (same preamp as the DC3, two less EL84's) and use a WGS ET-65 speaker. I like that much more than the stock VS speaker (Eminence) or a V30. Very smooth and chimey.

Al

 

[dodger916]

Great reply! I actually like the V-30 though I haven't tried other speakers alone with the amp DC3. Though I prefer the Studio's lead sound, I think the it really needs the GEQ to shape the mids. When I bought my DC3 the GEQ was broken and I really did not like the lead sound w/o the GEQ- way too much mids (could be the V30).

That's what I didn't like about the V30. The mids actually bothered my ears. Get the GEQ fixed if you haven't done so. It'll dial the mids right out

I just repaired a basket case Marshall JCM2000 DSL401 that I bought a while ago and was enjoying its lead sound though the DC3 killed it with it's clean sound (and build quality and pretty much everything else). I spent some time going back and forth between the Marshall and the DC3, tweaking the DC3 to get more of a Marshall like lead sound from it and actually like it a lot.

I also had a Subway Rocket and loved the lead sound and portability. The rhythm sound left a lot to be desired! It didn't seem too bad until I built a similarly sized Princeton Reverb clone...One thing that still gets me about the Studio- it's so lightweight!

I was amazed at the lead sound on the Rocket. To me it was the perfect Boogie lead: high-gain and compressed; tight with enough "slop" to melt the notes together. And it seared too. The perfect combo for me would be DC-3 Rhythm and Subway Rocket lead.

The Studio 22+ with GEQ is a great little amp...very Mark-like. There are mods on the forum that will improve its versatility and tone.

 

[Don]

Get the GEQ fixed if you haven't done so. It'll dial the mids right out.

I repaired the GEQ. The 80hz inductor was missing completely! It does dial the mids out well.

The Studio 22+ with GEQ is a great little amp...very Mark-like. There are mods on the forum that will improve its versatility and tone.

I added a lead drive pot to mine. I put the reverb pot on the back. That change was required for my playing style. I love how the Studio's lead sound responds to picking dynamics and the guitar's volume setting. The DC-3 is not as dynamic.

 

[dodger916]

I love how the Studio's lead sound responds to picking dynamics and the guitar's volume setting. The DC-3 is not as dynamic.

Agreed

 

[Don]

I just lifter the 22k resistor that's connected to the lead channel's treble pot. This was recommended in a post on another forum some time ago. It really opened up the lead channel and made it less fuzzy. It's also more responsive to the guitar's volume control.

If you haven't done this to your DC I highly recommend that you check it out.

 

[dodger916]

I just lifter the 22k resistor that's connected to the lead channel's treble pot. This was recommended in a post here (or was it a different site?) some time ago. It really opened up the lead channel and made it less fuzzy. It's also more responsive to the guitar's volume control.

If you haven't done this to your DC I highly recommend that you check it out.

My Rev B does not have that resistor. Do you know which Rev you have, A or B?

 

[Don]

Mine is also rev. B. The schematic for the rev. B DC-5 and DC-2 show the resistor. It's on the PCB behind the reverb pot.

 

[dodger916]

Mine is also rev. B. The schematic for the rev. B DC-5 and DC-2 show the resistor. It's on the PCB behind the reverb pot.

Don: Finally! I tried to do this months ago, but nobody would/could confirm if the resistor (photo below) was the right one. I'd greatly appreciate if you could confirm.

 

[Don]

That's the one! It's placed between the treble pot and the .001 cap in the schematic. The one in my amp was the same physical size as the resistor next to it.

 

[dodger916]

Thanks, Don! Can't wait to yank that tooth...

 

[dodger916]

Tooth yanked and the beast is howwwling! Lead gain can NOW be run around 7 without the fizz. To tame the Lead fizz I originally installed a JJ ECC823 in V1, which is a 12ax7 in the first triode and 12at7 in the second triode. Installed in V1 it runs the 12ax7 in stage one of the Rhy channel and the 12at7 in stage one of the Lead Channel - perfect tube for the DC-3! (Eurotubes even markets it specifically for the DC series.) I gotta say it sounds great as-is, so I'm reluctant to switch to a standard 12ax7 'cause I don't play real high gain stuff and can always use a pedal if need be.

Whereas I barely used the Lead channel before, now I'm getting some singing Allman/Santana-esque lead tones with my Les Paul, with a very harmonic and controllable feedback. The EL84s are compressing nicely, adding smoothness. This amp is now rivaling my C+: they both have a GREAT clean channel, and I'm able to get VERY respectable lead tones without the C+ volume. Plus, separate tone, Presence and Reverb controls per channel. It ain't quite a C+, but as Mike Bendinelli once told me (in reference to the desirability of STR415s), "After the first cymbal crash you can't hear the difference". I'll never sell my C+, but my Mark IV is looking a bit nervous...

Thanks again Don; I'm super-stoked!

 

[Don]

Glad to hear you like it! I have to try a JJ ECC823! I'll try a 12AU7 that I have on hand to see if I think I'll like it. At any setting, the lead channel has way more gain than I can use (though this mod helped by making it more dynamic).

 

[Don]

I bought and installed a JJ823 and it sounds great! I can still get more gain than I want but it can be turned way down. Sounds great with a Strat!

 

[dodger916]

I bought and installed a JJ823 and it sounds great! I can still get more gain than I want but it can be turned way down. Sounds great with a Strat!

Yep. Very useful tube, but I just this afternoon replaced mine with a vintage Mesa SPAX 12ax7 (Tungsram) in V1! Holy Mackeral! Talk about focused, singing lead tones that sustain for daaaays with minimal graininess. It's like the best Mark IV sound I ever heard. I am virtually in shock! I think the Lead mod you showed me made the difference, and is why this amp sounds sooo good now with the SPAX. I'd been using the lead channel for a crunch/high gain rhythm sound, and using OD pedals through the Rhy channel for lead tones. Not any more! Roll back the guitar volume and I can still get the crunch rhythm, but roll up the volume and it wails. I'm getting Duane Allman at the Fillmore East tone, that angry violin sound or the wailing horn sound he got through the cranked 50 watt Marshalls, but I'm getting it with my girlfriend in the next room. I am in total Boogie heaven, and it's ONLY taken me about 35 years to get here!