Stock mesa tubes suck ???

[Geiri]

Just a thought,

After 30 + years of amp making why would randall put crappy tubes in his amps? I've been reading some posts here that the stock stiletto tubes are crappy and just today my amp tech agreed with that. One would think that with all their experience and research they should be choosing creme de la creme of tubes in their amps.

So why is this ??

I've never retubed any of my previous tube amps so if anyone has info on as how the stiletto will benefit from a tube change I would very much appreciate the info.

Thanx

Geiri

 

[Nitrobattery]

They just use junky tubes. I can't figure it out either. Being in the same price range as say ENGL or Splawn who use high end tubes and spend a lot of time matching the right tubes to the right amps, you'd think Mesa would do the same. I immediately yanked the stock tubes out of my Roadster and was blown away by how much better they sounded with just Groove Tubes. I ordered some Tung-Sol's for the power section and I'm excited to hear what they sound like.

 

[songrider]

I have always had good luck with Mesa tubes. I tried the JJ setup from eurotubes before and it just made my amps darker and less consistant in tone.

I think it all comes down to what sounds good to your ears.

in my triple channel dual rec I have mesa power tubes and I run a jj 803 in the v-1 and tung sols in v-2 & v-3 and then stock mesa 12ax7's in the rest and I love that setup in that.

so far nothing has beat all stock tubes in my Roadster.

comes down to your ears & your amp.

I have seen JJ's do wonders in a Marshall and absolutely nothing in a Mesa. & I am sure there are those that have had the reverse happen.
I also put Mesa tubes into a 5150 and its sounded ALOT better that before. (but it was still a 5150 so it sucked to me)

 

[Platypus]

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=6471

Here's a relevant discussion topic about this in the Tubes forum from years ago.... basically what it boils down to is consistency of a product at the sacrifice of tone (to the ears of the beholder that is). It makes more sense for a company to sell their product with a component they are reasonably certain will last.. I'm sure there are more politics involved as well.

In my own personal experience I've had a few bunk tubes over the years, all of them JJ's except for one microphonic EH tube. Of all the Mesa amps I've owned I have never had a Mesa branded tube go bad prematurely. Your mileage will certainly vary but that's my experience with it.

 

[Charles Reeder]

Hey:

I've posted my 2-cents worth on this topic before; but it is a topic of intense interest to many people; so pardon me if I repeat myself.

I don't think the stock Mesa tubes are 'crap' as many claim; but they OFTEN SOUND LIKE CRAP! Why would I make such a seemingly contradictory statement?

Well...it's because in 2 of the 3 Mesa amps I have bought; the power tubes were in a 'bias-range' that was 'cold' or 'way-too-cold'. ANY POWER TUBE that is biased too cold will sound harsh and brittle; no matter what the brand of tube used. Even the very best expensive power tubes will not sound good if they are biased too cold.
The most important thing when replacing the stock power tubes in a Mesa is getting some tubes that are in the correct bias range. For example; 6L6 tubes sound good (to me) if biased between 30ma and 40ma; with 35ma to 37ma sounding the best.

I bought a used DC-5 combo a few years back and the stock Mesa 6L6 STR 420s read 32ma and the amp sounded very good with those tubes. I tried a few JJ and Electro Harmonix tubes (also in that bias range) in the amp, and they really did not sound any better. So basically; the three brands (Mesa, JJ and EH) all sounded of about equal quality when they were all reading in the same 'bias' range. Granted that they each had slightly different tonal qualities that might make someone PREFER one brand over another (that is after all just personal taste)...but 'quality-wise' they were about equal.

I have 2 Lone Star 'Classics' using 6L6s...one a 112 combo and the other a 'head'.
The Mesa 6L6 STR 430s that came in the combo read from 25ma to 27ma. So this amp had tubes that were a little bit 'cold'... below my preferred 'bias-range' of 30ma to 40ma. With these stock tubes the amp sounded 'passable'...but cetainly not great.
The Mesa STR 430s that came as stock in the Head version read at 22ma...(way too cold) and this amp sounded terrible to my ears (harsh, brittle and flat).
Changing tubes on both of them to JJ and Electro-Harmonix 6L6s that were in the proper 'bias-range' made a 'World of Improvement' in both of these 2 amps...Not because they weren't Mesa tubes...but because they were tubes that were biased 'warm-enough'.

I can't imagine why Mesa sends amps out with tubes which are biased so cold...unless they just hope that it will increase sales for their tubes. Perhaps they hope that owners who don't want to chance voiding their warranties will call them and ask for sets of output tubes that are warmer than their stock tubes.

Adding more expensive 6L6s later that were in the same 'warm-range' of 35ma-37ma...did sound much better than the Mesa tubes and sounded better than the JJ and EH tubes as well. Using quality tubes made a clearly audible difference because they were biased properly. Had I put in expensive tubes that were 'biased' as cold as my stock Mesa tubes...well they too would have sounded like 'crap'. For those who are interested; I use TAD 6L6WGC tubes in the Lone Stars. I love the sound of these...but I intend to check out some other brands too, eventually.

The point I'm trying to make in this post is that it is well worth the relatively minor expense, as well as the little bit of 'time and trouble' to buy and use a 'bias probe' and a 'digital multimeter' to read the bias on the tubes in your Mesa amps (as well as any other amps you own as).
The $25 dollars for the single-unit bias probe and $20 for the multimeter have paid for themselves many times over...in dollars and cents...as well as in improved tone.

As for the Mesa STR 430 6L6s that were too cold in my Lone Stars...well with the help of the bias probe and the multimeter...I have put them to good use in amps that have an adjustable bias. When these tubes are biased 'warm' enough they don't sound like 'crap'. They are equal in quality to the JJs and EHs...though certainly NOT to the TAD 6L6s!

Also of interest; the Mesa 6l6s are matched VERY CLOSE. I had 2-pairs that matched 'exactly' at 22ma in the LSC head, and 1-pair of 25ma, and 1-pair of 27ma in the LSC combo.

I do find the stock Mesa 12AX7s to be very 'neutral' sounding tubes. They will appeal to some people (although not me). This is a choice I believe they made simply because they 'know' most people will swap them around for their favorites anyway, AND because they are cheap.

Charles

 

[Geiri]

Thank you all for your informative feedback.

Now the next question : What the hell are NOS tubes and how do they compare to ....... well not NOS tubes ?

 

[boogie shoes]

new old stock.

 

[boogie shoes]

has anyone tried the preconfigured sets at Dougs tubes. I have been considering a set up I thought I saw for the LSC.

 

[ja22y]

Thank you all for your informative feedback.

Now the next question : What the hell are NOS tubes and how do they compare to ....... well not NOS tubes ?

it's like pre-CBS and MIM Fenders.

 

[srf399]

I had them in and really liked them playing at home... Went out for play the first gig with them and my sound was dead. I changed my strings that weren't that old and it helped a bit. Then the second time I played like I was dealing with very flat sound again... then I got piss off and put my old mesas in and everything came back to life.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

"Suck" is personal thing.

I've never had a problem with Mesa tubes. But my 2000 Blue Angel has the stock ones still. I bought replacements (from Mesa), but haven't put em' in yet. The amp sounds great and gigs almost every weekend.

I'm very happy with Mesa Tubes.

Murph.

 

[Rocky]

I have used Mesa tubes and they sound fine to me.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Platypus is right. They want all of their amps to be consistent and for the tubes to last.

Charles is right, they are biased colder than most amps. I asked Mesa about this and they said that they wanted to make the tubes last as long as possible. Sort of like choosing the "Fail-Safe" Bios option over the "High-Performance," option on your computer.



I actually liked the Chinese Mesa tubes in the LSS that I just sold to Lou. I thought they sounded really nice, with lots of chime.


All of my amps that are not Cathode Biased get a bias pot. I understand that Mesa is in the business of making money and selling tubes is a major part of that. I really like the STR 420's too. But, I like being able to use any tubes that I want.

 

[fishyfishfish]

I don't think they are "Crappy", but as a company that sells thousands of amps a year they would have to get the best deal on bulk shipments on tubes for economic reasons. They would also have to test good, and be within spec of the Boogie design, so a lot would have to go into bulk buying and speculation of not only what is available now but what will be available 5 or ten years from now.

 

[creekhed]

I've never had anything but stock in my LSC so I cannot speak to how other tubes would sound,,,but my stock tubes sound beautiful.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I don't think they are "Crappy", but as a company that sells thousands of amps a year they would have to get the best deal on bulk shipments on tubes for economic reasons. They would also have to test good, and be within spec of the Boogie design, so a lot would have to go into bulk buying and speculation of not only what is available now but what will be available 5 or ten years from now.

Very true, but they also have a lot of buying power. Almost any manufacturer will sell you gobs of their product for a lower price if they know for a fact that you will keep coming back.


I really think they have consistency in mind more so than saving a buck.

 

[seymourstiletto]

i asked the same question not long ago and heard alot of different opinions i wish they had a soundboard somewhere online where you could actually hear different tubes in stilettos, rectifiers,marshalls or whatever amp you play.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

You can't hear a tube on a computer. That's about as stupid as it gets.

Sheeze.

People ***** about solid state sounds, now ya wanna hear a freakin' over driven tube tone on a crappy little Chinese computer.

You can only hear a Mesa amp, or an overdriven tube in a BAR, or at least, in front of the amp.

The soundboard is real life.

Murph.

 

[secretsoundz]

I keep reading on here how Mesa tubes suck....I have a hard time believing that. Randall Smith goes into depth on the Mesa website about tubes and how they test them, etc. I'm gonna try Eurotube JJ's when it comes time to re-tube my Stiletto Ace. Then I'll know if it's true or not.

 

[nomad100hd]

Of course the mesa site goes on about how they test there tubes, they are trying to sell you tubes. I like JJ 6l6's and 12AX7 in my nomad, but didn't like the JJ 6l6's in a peavey valve king. I put a set of Mesa red label tubes into the valve king and was happy. The Chinese mesa tubes took the peavey out of the peavey! I also seem to like a both JJ el84 and sovtek el84 in a modified valve junior.

I liked the reds in my nomad100 HD they were very warm "tonally" and they created way to much heat for my amp that has the tubes hanging down. I don't know which i liked better it's a toss up. I did like the first set of JJ 6L6's better than my current set but i'm sure the new ones are biasing colder. The first set i pickup in kentucky while i was there and the second i got from eurotubes.com. Next time I'll ask bob at eurotubes for a warmer set. I think the JJ's are more articulate, but it's been a while. I've not tried any pretubes, the mesa tubes were dead in my amp when i got it. I don't like EH 12AX7 in anything i've tried so far. I didn't play the china tube in my valve junior long enough to make a decision. Those dang tubes get hot when switching them in and out, and getting the first preamp tube in and out of my Nomad HD is a pain in the butt! The transformer is in the way.