Stiletto Deuce II issue: tinny/shrill/thin sounds! help!

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wannabweiland said:
I'm going to get some KT77s to replace my EL34s (which I believe won't need any biasing or mod-ing, should just be drop in replacements, right?)

There is no bias adjustment if you have not had your amp modified.
There is a range of bias ..... if the KT77 measures in that range they well work. If not in that range you can cause damage to your amp. You are wrong about "should just be drop in replacements". Most KT77 well not be in this range.
 
The answers you received from Stephen Sawall are correct. BTW: all 'drop-in-replacements' means is that they will not 'harm' the amp...it does not imply that they will be in the correct 'bias-range' to sound good. The problems you desciribe with your sound are not due to any of the tubes you tried being 'bad or low quality tubes'...but are due to the tubes NOT falling within the 'warm-to hot' bias range.

Rather than 'throw good money after bad'; trying more tubes...buy and install the Mansfield 'bias-mod-kit' and you will be able to adjust it to get the tubes you already have into the desirable 37-39mv bias range. The kit is about the cost of a premium pair of tubes (less than a quad for the Stiletto Deuce). Purchase a cheap single unit 'bias-probe', a digital multimeter and a cheap 25 to 40 watt soldering iron (and solder). Read instructions carefully and you're all set. It really isn't difficult if you pay attention and heed everyone's advice.

The reward in improved sound will take your breath away. Contact Trev57 if you are in doubt about the improvement.

Charles
 
Just goes to show how much I really don't know about this stuff...

Is there any way to get it to sound the way I want without the mod?
 
I'll check out the mod, but I just put the stock tubes back in and it sounds fine now. Maybe one of my "new" tubes was failing or a dud.
 
Many "new" tubes are not good. That is not uncommon at all.

It sounds like from the description the new tubes were "cold" bias. Chances are they are fine and just not in the right bias range. It is imposable to tell over the web.

There is a reason Mesa recommends only using there tubes. The reason is they measure them to make sure they are in the right range.

I recommend you go read up on the subject .... it really is not very complex. It may help you avoid doing permanent damage to your amp.
 
Hey All -

As for the original problem that started this thread, ScreaminDaisy makes a good point that (if it is the amp that is bright) this is most likely a tube that has mechanically gone wonky or a bit microphonic and is amplifying the 'wonk' as the signal dies out. If it's vibrationally related and you have the amp on top of the cab, if you take the amp off the cab and run it and the noise is less of an issue or goes away, this indicates that potential mechanical/microphonic tube issue.

The tubes are always the first place to start because they all are destined to fail at some point and sometimes they fail within 2 seconds, 2 days, 2 weeks or 20 years - that's why companies selling tubes provide a warranty on them. Rather than change out the whole set, a calculated approach to troubleshooting is suggested. More on that should it be needed.

Like many well known and often appreciated British amps, the Stiletto's (Ace, Duece and Trident - all the same preamp circuit) will likely come off a bit bright to many at the start, especially with music store settings (12:00 noon on gain and tone control settings).

One quick place to start that is settings based is trying lower wattage settings and Tube Rectifier settings. This allows you to turn the amp a bit more and the natural clip and overdrive lends a warmth and roll off of the extreme high end.

There are some great suggestions here like being aware of your speakers and cab and whether they are bright or neutral or darker in general. An amp only ever sounds as good as the speakers its being played through so experimenting with other cabs or speakers can tell you a lot about how your cab is affecting your sound overall. Vintage 30s have a bit of a reputation for having a peak in upper mids and low treble that many perceive as straight treble brightness. Plugging your amp into known darker or neutral speakers can be a great reference and learning experience.

The other excellent suggestion is that brightness will be more balanced as the amp is turned up and bass frequencies are essentially being supported and amplified at those higher volumes. The amp is more full at higher volumes and higher frequencies get smoothed with more bass in the mix.

Finally, not being afraid to use some more extreme settings to the low side, especially on Treble and Presence and even the Mid control which affects a good amount of the upper mid and low treble region. It may not seem comfortable to have treble, mids and presence set below 9:00 but in the end, if the sound is there, it's not about the settings, it's about the sound.

There's a few other things you could try but this could be getting a little lengthy. If you're interested, feel free to contact me on the forum via PM to discuss further. Hope this helps.
 
I was fighting the same battle. I recently was tooling with my amp and went against my nature and changed the my settings from fluid-bold-diode rectifier to fluid-spongy-tube rectifier. The difference is amazing, IMO. Much warmer sound and no piercing highs anymore, much fuller sounding.
 

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