Stiletto Ace/Deuce/Trident Differences

[ferrara]

Hey guys, I'm looking into buying a Stiletto but really just looking for answers to some of my questions.

My main one, is there a difference in tone between the Ace, Deuce, and Trident at all? Mainly is the trident a higher gain than say the ace would be? Or are they all the exact same amp, same tone, just higher powered as you go up. I do see that there are the same amount of preamp tubes in all three, but higher amount of rectifier tubes as you go up in the series. (I understand that there are more el34s to handle the extra amount of power). Right now I'm looking at a Trident primarily, but have so far only been able to play an ace and was surprised at the amount of gain. Also, it seems that as you go up the Recto series that you get a higher gain sound, or a heavier sound maybe, and would be surprised if the stiletto didn't undergo the same transformation as you go up in the series as well. Hope somebody with Stiletto experience can shed some light on the subject. Thanks!

 

[srf399]

If you do a search here you'll find a ton of information in previous threads. Also there are a lot of clips that you can listen to in the Rigs & Tones area.

The original Stilettos were the Deuce and Trident.

Then the Ace and the Stage II Deuce & Trident came out.

The Ace is a Stage II as well. All of the Stage II's have the same preamp circuits and the Deuce and Tridents have different transformers than the Ace. The transformer is the only difference. However, transformers can make a huge difference.

The Ace in my opinion gives a more classic 70's sound while the Deuce and Trident are more 80's sounding... but again that is just my take on it and yours may be something totally different.

You'll have to go try them to pick the one you like. The Trident in 150 mode would have a ton of punch but in most cases would likely be over kill and a fortune to re-tube.

 

[ferrara]

yeah, i was thinking that maybe the trident would be a little too much but I've personally always liked the Triple Rec and not the Double, only because of the nice punch and the different sound (however Rectos are the wrong sound for me), so I would think that this would also be the same case with the Stilettos. Trying them all out however is a little difficult. I went to the guitar shop and was about to start playing a stage 1 trident, flip it over to fluid drive and for some reason it blew a tube so no luck there. The guy gets me to try a Stiletto Ace instead and I was floored by both the higher gain sounds and the clean sounds of it, however I need more than 50 watts of power, and felt it wasn't exactly what I wanted but along the same lines, hence the trident (plus it has those 50w/150w flip switches that probably make it also dial in the 70s tones you're talking about). All in all I'm set on a Stiletto, just a matter of which one to get, Deuce or Trident, depending on the high gain tone differences.

 

[jaredrutledge]

i think you might be a little misinformed on the nature of power and tubes - it's ok, i was too when i bought my triple recto (i wish'd gotten a dual and pulled a pair of tubes).

to get a ~3db sound increase (sound doubles with every 3db) you have to 10x the wattage. so all other things equal, a 100 watt amp is going to be twice as loud as a 10 watt amp at the same level of total harmonic distortion. hence a 150watt amp will give you something around 5% of a volume difference compared to a 100watt amp. at least that's my understanding of how things work. a 100watt amp will break up in the power section slightly sooner, which is what you want anyways.

unless you're playing 1000+ person auditoriums a 50w amp will suit your needs just fine, and i wish someone had told me that when i bought my triple. if the ace and deuce are voiced differently, that's one thing, but i'd imagine the trident is just overkill.

also, it's not that you add more el34's to match the rectifier tubes, it's the other way around - the rectifier tubes are there to produce DC power for the tubes. and as far as i know a triple recto has the exact same amount of preamp gain as a single recto. the "single" or "dual", just like the "ace" or "deuce" refers to power tubes and number of tube rectifiers - not gain voicing.

 

[srf399]

The only difference is in the transformer... Ace is brighter...

Also with the Deuce you can plug the cabinet into the 4 ohm speaker out and it brightens up like the Ace.

As far as preamp gain the Ace and the Deuce are identical.

The differences I noticed were that the Ace sound was brighter and harsher.... too much so for my taste.

To me the Deuce set in 50 watt mode was smoother, fuller, and less harsh sounding (it can still be harsh though) than the Ace. In the 100 watt mode the Deuce goes to another level and is punchier and just a tad louder than in the 50 watt mode. It has almost the same gain in 100 watt mode compared to 50 watt. Of course that would also depend on how hard you're pushing the power tubes. Lower volumes the gain difference is negligible.

The 150 watt Trident to me is fine if you enjoy spending a ton of $$$ every time you re-tube. Maybe your style would benefit from the extra punch. Even 100 watts in the deuce is over kill for me though.

I prefer the sound of the Deuce due to the different transformer and I always play it in 50 watt mode... so basically I have a spare rectifier tube and a spare pair of EL34's on hand sitting in the head at all times and I can rotate them after a year and basically call it a re-tube!!!

 

[ferrara]

ahhh, alright. so is it the power tubes that give the triple that nice chunky sound that triple rectos have? I just have honestly played dual rectos and then triple rectos and found that there is a huge difference. I really ended up disliking the duals and loved the triples, but again, the rectos have too much of a metal sound, too much low end, lower mid kind of sound for the music i play.

I'm actually not even concerned about wattage a lot, just the effect on the tone (plus when the amps are $50-100 difference, you might as well cover your bases). What I get out of what you're saying though is that really there's not a whole lot of volume difference, just a tone coloration due to the power tubes. This is what I want specifically because volume is of no matter to me so much, just what the different sound the trident is going to offer me. However, like I said, I still haven't tried the deuce or trident so I really am just guessing as to what I'm going to want via my experience with Rectos. It would however be nice if there were Trident clips around, I just found a whole bunch of deuces and that's it, maybe one poorly mic'd youtube clip and that's about it.

 

[ferrara]

yeah, i did find that the treble and presence on the ace had to be rolled back a little bit more than i'm used to to try and cut out that harshness.

I do need to try out the deuce and see if i like it before I make any decisions, but $150 a year in tubes isn't so bad i guess, it's like paying for new strings every month neways. My big thing is that I really love high gain tones while soloing, but I honestly only like specific kinds of amp distortion, and I really never like pedal distortion. So if there's a specific tone difference between the deuce and trident, then for sure I'll be deciding based on tone, not wattage.

 

[srf399]

The Trident might be the best one for you then. And I agree the volume difference is minimal... it's the sound you're looking for.

Also cabinets will make a big difference as well. I only have the 2 x 12 stiletto cause I want an easy amp to transport. It's nice and compact even with the head and 2x12... just a little bigger than my old MKIV wide body combo! The Deuce & Trident heads are smaller than the Ace heads.

 

[ferrara]

Yeah, I agree with you on the cabinet front. I'm honestly torn between V30s and 25 watt greenbacks. I don't know what it is about those greenbacks but they get me every time, especially with high gain amps for some reason. Really weird combo I know but you like what you like i guess. I was thinking about swapping out 2 of the v30s for either the 25 or 30 watt greenback, but i don't really want 2 v30s sitting around doing nothing.

 

[srf399]

Try a graphic EQ in the loop first. You can do a lot with just an EQ.

 

[ferrara]

I know exactly what you mean by the ease of transport. I found hauling around a head and cab is much better than hauling around a combo though. I found that combos usually just have the one handle on top and it actually makes it harder to haul around, even compared to a heavier 4x12. Right now I have a 75 lb combo and hauling it up and down stairs is the worst, but hauling a 99 lb 4x12 is so much easier because of the side mounted handles, it all depends on the way you're carrying it for sure.

It's an offtopic question, but does Mesa charge you to swap out the croc grille? I'd rather have the stiletto in that really nice tan grille, and I would've thought it'd be less money for them for that fabric/thread grille than it would for an embossed tolex type covering. What if the amp is already made and just waiting to be shipped out, is it possible for mesa to change the grille before it's sent out to a specific store or do they have to make you a whole new amp with just that one addition?

 

[srf399]

The V30's are incredible with the Stilettos

I had the cabinet with my MKIV for a bit before I got the Deuce head.... The V30's were awful with the MKIV to my ears.... plug in the Deuce and they sounded sweet.

 

[srf399]

Best to just give them a call... they're really great when it comes to that. When I was looking at getting the MKIV I called them and was on the phone for at least 20 minutes. Couldn't shut the guy up! LOL And I learned a lot from him.

The Croc leather actually looks really classy.... I get people looking at it all the time... and it smells incredible! LOL The chrome chassis and croc leather puts it in a class like a brand new Harley

 

[ferrara]

yeah, it really honestly depends on the amp. I've heard some Marshalls sound mediocre with the g12t75s, amazing with greenbacks, and terrible with v30s, but then other ones really are the complete opposite. I think v30s are suited for boutique amps, and modern mesa amps, sometimes clean amps too but it's a really touchy subject because either they sparkle like diamonds or they're so harsh they bite your head off.

 

[srf399]

They were very harsh with the MKIV. Tried the recto cab with them as well. The C90's were much better with the MKIV. The Fat Clean on the Stiletto with V30's sounds more like my old 1965 Fender Deluxe reverb cleans than the MKIV did. Airy and nice even with a closed back cabinet.

 

[ferrara]

haha, yeah i know what you mean, you gotta love the leather, but I've always loved the look of the tan grilles. Ex- I love the look of bogners, but can never get a good tone out of them. I would literally have to sit and tweak and tweak and tweak knobs and still i wouldn't like what's coming out. Mesa has always been the easiest to turn on, dial in a new tone and have it shine with whatever I do. There's literally no wrong way to dial in a tone on a mesa. Now if they weren't so hard on tubes....

 

[srf399]

I loved the Bogner Esctacy Classic.... but out of my $$$$ limit. The Deuce Stage II comes pretty close though.

 

[ferrara]

I'm actually glad you mentioned the clean sound. The music we write is very versatile, has a lot of ability to go all over. Some songs will be very bluesy and need a slight crunch, then others will be straight-up rock and need that nice gainy sound, but then we'll go right into a nice clean tone song that requires some kind of fender sounding tone, I was kind of worried that I wouldn't be able to dial much in. Glad to hear it's the opposite though. How is it for a straight up clean tone though, no breaking up at all? is it do-able with the guitar's volume knob up all the way or do you have to back that off as well to stop it?

 

[srf399]

You haven't owned a MKIV.... a lot of poo sounds on that amp if you're not careful.... some great one's too. You need to have a degree to run it! LMAO 90+ switches and potentiometers!!!!

 

[srf399]

I can get a pure clean tone with no breakup/clip... The only Boogie clean I like better is the Lone Star Classic

Like I said the clean on the Stiletto Stage II's is a fender blackface sound with a EL34 twist on it. It's actually really nice and you don't expect it from this genre of amp.