Stiletto Ace combo's brightness. How to tame it?

[SoCalSteve]

The brightness of this combo is really great for cutting through with a band, but for playing at home it's just too much. The cab design is really amazing giving so much low end too but the treble bite is very strong.

What would be the most economical way to tame it? Do you think swapping out the Vintage 30 for a warmer speaker with a rolled off top-end would be the way to go?

Do you think a retube would make a dramatic enough change?

I really don't want to sink a whole lot more money into it than necessary.

 

[user 1198]

I know what you mean about the brightness. I had an Ace combo for about a month and ended up taking it back because I couldn't deal with the brightness and I didn't want to sink anymore money into it to tame it.

I bet you that a Celestion Greenback would sound killer in the Ace combo. The Greenbacks are much darker sounding than the V30's. I played a Marshall DSL401 combo with a Greenback in it and it sounded great compared to a DSL head going into a cabinet with V30's. The V30's with the Marshall were too bright.

 

[bluntage]

I've spent quite a bit of time with one at my local shop and feel sure I could not deal with the brightness. That amp is piercingly bright, even with the presence and treble rolled off!

 

[Platypus]

Personally I think it's excellent stock.. it's supposed to be bright
It sounds perfect in a band situation...

It depends a lot on the guitar you're using though.. what kind of fiddle are you using?

Also, the cabinet is very directional, so perhaps moving to one side or angling it slightly might help you out a bit to get rid of those upper frequencies...

Like I said, I think it's perfect.. if you want a darker british sound, go with an Orange combo.

edit: I see you have an LP.. try riding the tone pot a bit lower and use the middle pickup selection. I have the 2x12 version which I think tames a bit of the brightness you mentioned but you should have no problem taming the beast. Try using the tube rectifiers and the lower power variac setting as well.

If you're not already, enable the FX loop and use the output knob like a master volume style amp. Don't be afraid to crank up the bass knob.. remember that Mesa's EQ is all chained together with the treble being the most powerful control... your settings for mids and bass will effect the treble's power as well..

 

[bluntage]

I must agree with Platypus... the guitar makes a difference with the high frequencies and the tube rectifier sounds quite a bit warmer and less piercing. I played the Ace, a Mark IV compact combo, and an Orange Rockerverb 50 combo yesterday for a bit... perhaps that is why the Ace sounded so bright! :wink:

 

[SoCalSteve]

Actually, I just put a Treble Tamer kit in the LP (CTS pots, different caps).

Don't get me wrong, the voicing of the amp is awesome, but for playing alone I think the Vintage 30 is the culprit. My former amp, an EL34 Traynor also came stock with a V30 and was bright. In that amp I put an Eminence Wizard that sounded great but still had a bright top-end.

I think I'll try an Eminence Cannabis Rex or even a Governor which is supposedly similar to a Vintage 30 but has a smoother top-end. Alot of guys at The Gear Page love the Scumback speakers but at $169 I have a hard time convincing myself to get one of those.

BTW the Greenback is only rated at 25 watts I think so it wouldn't be capable in this combo.

 

[Charlie]

Fyi you can also try a few different tubes in your V1 and V2 positions. That helped to tame the brightness of my F-50.

 

[Platypus]

Another thing to keep in mind.. your speaker isn't broken in most likely.. V30's sound way harsh to me when they're new but after they're broken in, they're warm and buttery.

Let us know if you try another speaker, personally I think the Stiletto was born for the vintage30 sound.. the voicing is just spectacular through it.

I've read a lot about the Hellatone 60s as well.. they're supposed to give you that broken in V30 sound right away.

You must really like that dark british sound if you've got a tamer kit and it's still bright It's a great sound but I prefer the slice

You can also try different preamp tubes.. that's a very quick/cheap experiment. V1 being the most important one to change.

Hope you can tame the beast Steve, the Ace is one of the best amps I've ever owned, I hope you can make it work for you!

 

[inkwachemis]

The brightness of this combo is really great for cutting through with a band, but for playing at home it's just too much. The cab design is really amazing giving so much low end too but the treble bite is very strong.

What would be the most economical way to tame it? Do you think swapping out the Vintage 30 for a warmer speaker with a rolled off top-end would be the way to go?

Do you think a retube would make a dramatic enough change?

I really don't want to sink a whole lot more money into it than necessary.

Ok, I think I have a bit of exp to chime in here with how I've done with the Ace. I've found great results in a full retube for my Ace. My Ace didn't reach its potential until I did the retube. I used tungsols reissues in v1 and v2 and jj3cc83s in the rest. SED EL-34s for power tubes. Warmed up the amp amazingly and did wonders to clarity. Zero fizz/fuzz. These tubes can be had for not too much of an investment, but the results are every bit worth it.

In terms of speakers, I think v30s are in general too harsh and have an annoying mid hump. They are better suited to Rectos IMO. I have an Ace head, and I'm running a 4x12 cab with Greenbacks. This pretty much has made the tone i'm getting now totally over the top. crunch and warmth all around. zero ice pick. I'm keeping this rig forever.

what combo speaker config do u have? If u have the 2x12, then you'll have no problems with running greenbacks. if its a 1x12, look into the Eminence Private Jack, which is supposed to be a higher wattage Greenback clone. never tried it myself though. good luck

 

[bigdan19]

ive got greenbacks in my cabinet i use with my stiletto ace head. im afraid it doesnt really tame the brightness of the amp too much. the best approach is to roll the prescence off the amp as its seems to be the main culprit.

 

[SoCalSteve]

Some good advice, guys. Thanks! Looks like I may do two things: first, I'll run a bassy cd through it at pretty decent volume when I can over the next few days and see if I can mellow out the speaker a little. If I'm not satisfied with the results, I can probably sell the slightly used Vintage 30 for roughly the same price as a new Eminence.

After I've got the speaker situation squared away I'll retube it.

The Stiletto is the best sounding amp I've had, I just want to make it the best it can be to my ears. I've had an Aiken Invader, a Fargen Bastage, a Splawn Competition, a Crate Palomino and a couple of different Traynors and the Mesa leaves them all in the dust.

 

[Barry]

The brightness of this combo is really great for cutting through with a band, but for playing at home it's just too much. The cab design is really amazing giving so much low end too but the treble bite is very strong.

What would be the most economical way to tame it? Do you think swapping out the Vintage 30 for a warmer speaker with a rolled off top-end would be the way to go?

Do you think a retube would make a dramatic enough change?

I really don't want to sink a whole lot more money into it than necessary.

Try dialing the treble way back and use a good bit of bass (1 oclock or so) . then satrt bring the mids in very slowly from 0 while plucking a low E string . I ended up with my mids between 9 and 11 oclock . May want to trim the presence back as well . Experiment with spongy and the rectifier choices .

 

[Barry]

The brightness of this combo is really great for cutting through with a band, but for playing at home it's just too much. The cab design is really amazing giving so much low end too but the treble bite is very strong.

What would be the most economical way to tame it? Do you think swapping out the Vintage 30 for a warmer speaker with a rolled off top-end would be the way to go?

Do you think a retube would make a dramatic enough change?

I really don't want to sink a whole lot more money into it than necessary.

Try dialing the treble way back and use a good bit of bass (1 oclock or so) . then start bringing the mids in very slowly from 0 while plucking a low E string . I ended up with my mids between 9 and 11 oclock . May want to trim the presence back as well . Experiment with spongy and the rectifier choices .

 

[SoCalSteve]

It just occurred to me that a beam blocker may be just what I need!

 

[hal9000]

I have two Celestion Century Vintage (V30 soft parts) and the Beam Blockers really helped to kill the beam and redistribute the highs so the sound stage is much more balanced.

 

[inkwachemis]

ive got greenbacks in my cabinet i use with my stiletto ace head. im afraid it doesnt really tame the brightness of the amp too much. the best approach is to roll the prescence off the amp as its seems to be the main culprit.

strange, I went from a cab with a v30 and g12h30, to a cab wth greenbacks and found the greenback cab to be way warmer. brightness is not an issue for me at all anymore with the Ace. And i mainly play with a single coiled p90 guitar too. Very thick, warm, and cutting.

 

[SoCalSteve]

UPDATE: I just ordered an Eminence Cannabis Rex. Supposed to be a very warm, smooth speaker. Plus if I don't like it I can always smoke it.

 

[inkwachemis]

UPDATE: I just ordered an Eminence Cannabis Rex. Supposed to be a very warm, smooth speaker. Plus if I don't like it I can always smoke it.

wow! nice man. let us know what u think of it. I hear lots of fender users like to put this speaker in their amps.

 

[Guitarzan]

That's the new Mesa mod called the "4X20" cab.

 

[Platypus]

That's the new Mesa mod called the "4X20" cab.