So tonight, while at band practice, guess which amp blew...

[AdmiralB]

Turning it up ALL the way should not be a problem. Blaming the problem on the user (you turned it up too far) is BS.

In fact, considering all the hyperbole they use on their super-duper tube screening/matching system, blaming the TUBES is BS too, if they're saying "yeah, we're having a lot of problems with these 447s"; if they're having so many problems, why isn't their screening system catching them?

There's no shortage of reliable EL34s these days.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

I have to question that myself. If I can't crank an amp wide open and play it all night (if I want to), it's defective. I can understand a tube going out, but that better be it.

I dime my Blue Angel every gig on the 2;6V6 setting for a particular lead. Never had a problem. Back in the DOUBLE AUGHT days, (cdbaby.com) I played a Peavey Classic 50 combo dimed all night every show. It was fan cooled 4;EL84's and held up (several years) until I sold it. I used a Marshall on the cd, but used the Peavey for live gigs.

And I ream Peavey every chance I get for moving so much production to China.

If you can't dime a 50 watt amp, what the hell is the point?

 

[mightywarlock]

well, if you ever have the opportunity to look at the output of your amp on a scope, i definitely recommend it.
as i was shown, 3/4's of the way up (10-11'oclock) is where it starts to amp up and flatline around noon. After that, the output doesn't change much, and it just adds to the amount of gain, but not output.
hence overdriving the tubes.

so why build an amp with the knob like that, that peaks at noon?

you can crank it more, but then you are just wearing out the tubes quicker.

 

[AdmiralB]

so why build an amp with the knob like that, that peaks at noon?

you can crank it more, but then you are just wearing out the tubes quicker.

Because it's impossible to know when the "peak" will occur. You can run the master higher with, say, a Strat than you can with something with EMGs or an X2N, before the power amp clips.

And a lot of people - like, say, every Marshall owner - happen to dig power amp distortion.

 

[amused]

My observation is that I run my Mark I around 3 or 4 and my Mark IV around 4 or 5, in both cases that seems about as loud as they get, or maybe as I need, given the other settings (vol, gain) I am using. I can think of no situation where I have run these amps louder. I run the Ace around 4 or 5.
The idea that you should need to, or should, run a boogie at ten is just fundamentally wrong. This is not a Marshall.

 

[AdmiralB]

That rather depends on the amp and the user, does it not?

My Heartbreaker sounds great on '10' with the preamp around 3 or so. A Mark IV rhythm channel probably would, too.

If you use a lot of preamp gain, yeah, a really clipped power amp is a bad idea.

 

[amused]

Yep it is highly dependant on the user ie using EL-34's class A in mark IV needs high Master settings to get the crunch. It seems to me the ace is behaving the way the rest of Mesas amps do though, maxing out around 5 given certain preamp settings. If I turn the inputs down to 2 yeah I can dime it. I agree their tube testing could be better, but they are probably not testing under loads that melt the solder off the grid resistors :shock:

 

[srf399]

I played for many years professionally in the 80's and have been onstage with top guitarsts here in Western Canada. I can't imagine needing to turn my MKIV output volume past 4 even! If I did the band and soundman would be going nutz! We were loud and even then my amp had to be baffled to prevent my amp from overpowering the guitar through the mains. My hearing is bad enough as it is having played my amps cranked but the MKIV is way louder than the amps I used back then. Get more speaker cabinets and a bigger PA...it's about pushing air...not ripping eardrums and blowing tubes and screen resistors.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

I'm gonna have to question this.

I've been "playing professionally" since the "early" 70's and have dimed every amp I've ever owned.

I've "dimed" Super Reverbs, Twin Reverbs, Deluxe Reverbs, Peavey Deuce, Peavey Classic 50 (EL84 version), a Marshall 4100 (JCM 900) 1/2 stack, a Fender Prosonic, and my current Blue Angel with no problems.

If I ever bought an amp that I couldn't crank wide *** open, and let her rip, it's a defective amp. Every single part on the amp is designed to accept total power. Or it's a Crate.

My hearing is fine because the decibels aren't that much greater, it's the tone.

I go back to my earlier comment.

"IF YOU CAN'T DIME A 50 WATT AMP, WHAT THE HELL IS THE POINT?"

I think Mesa needs to build some non master amps designed to crank like the Blue Angel, a JTM45, ect. Everything they build has gain channels now, and there is no "real" tube distortion.

It's all fizz.

But if they can't take the heat, they should get out of the kitchen.

 

[srf399]

Had a Marshall Plexi that was useless unless you put it a mile away in a warehouse.. baffled. Welcome to the reason Santana chose Boogies in the first place. Cascading gain... Welcome to the 21st century were we get to hear into our golden years.

 

[ursinus]

Turning it up ALL the way should not be a problem. Blaming the problem on the user (you turned it up too far) is BS.

In fact, considering all the hyperbole they use on their super-duper tube screening/matching system, blaming the TUBES is BS too, if they're saying "yeah, we're having a lot of problems with these 447s"; if they're having so many problems, why isn't their screening system catching them?

There's no shortage of reliable EL34s these days.

I am starting to think that the new solder that is ROHS compliant may be the culprit. I have not proved it yet, but I am going to investigate. When I got my Stilletto Ace head, the first thing I did before I turned it on was open it and double check all the solder joints. I always do this with every amp I get, guess I don't trust anyone. I use standard 60/40 solder and usually touch up most of the joints at a leisurely pace because many of the joints I see look rushed. Call it a bad habit if you want, but my Stilletto Ace has yet to give me problems even when cranked with the masters at 1-2 o'clock.....

 

[Anonymous]

the european RoHS compliance sets some challenges. what we hear so far from our manufacturers is that the leadfree substitute causes higher soldering temperatures. so first you need irons or machines that can produce this degrees (cold soldering joints)

second reason to fail is mostly that older components (resistors, boards, condensor etc.) cannot stand this higher manufacturing temperatures.

so far my boogies are running (knock on wood) very accurate. tube trouble is normal, like running a car some new tyres are also needed regulary.

 

[AdmiralB]

Has Mesa gone RoHS-compliant? I haven't seen that on any new amps, but then I haven't really been looking.

Either they are, or they are not. Neither excuses the issues described in this thread, nor explains the attitude "you're just turning it up too high".

 

[dr_love6977]

Has Mesa gone RoHS-compliant? I haven't seen that on any new amps, but then I haven't really been looking.

Yeah, if you go back and check out the pics of the chassis' of these amps in this thread, you'll see RoHS right on the wiring.

 

[srf399]

I'd rather just get them from Dougs or Euro Tubes... Better price too!