so does this sound like i need some new tubes?

[jdurso]

Ok so now ive bought a bunch of new toyrs in the past few weeks (attenuator, ocd, rg-16) which i think has caused me to play more than i have in a while (which is a good thing). I noticed last night my channel 1 sounded just plain weak so i unplugged everything and went guitar > head > cabs with only an eq in the loop. Same thing. It just doesnt have the volume or head room its had in the past even when i hard bypass the loop.

The tubes are the stock tubes that came with the amp (its about a year old) and i even for a while (3 months or so) had kt-77s in there. I estimated there is probably anywhere from 175-200 hours on the power amp tubes and about 200-225 hours on the preamp tubes. I havent had a chance to pop the kt-77s back in to see if the power loss on the cleans is from the power amp tubes, but i will say without anything external effecting the signal, channels 3 and 4 sound a little weak as well... not bad but weaker than they have been.

So my question is do you think the tubes are starting to go and if so do you think the attenuator played a big part in bringing that out all of asudden? Would you guys recommend replacing all the tubes (pre and power) or see which ones it is? Lastly, I really dig the JJ power tubes but i've heard from some here that their preamp tubes suck. So what preamp tubes would you guys recommend other than just the stock ones and why?

Also i think i might just return the attenuator because while i can turn up a little more now i still find myself playing at more or less the same volume. I think the volume i play at has more to do with it being the point where the speakers start hitting their sweet spot (if that makes sense... i dont know the technical term). Especially with the addition of an OD, I'm hitting the sweet spot of the amp at lower levels and i find the point i like tomplay is where the speakers fill up which is at a reasonible volume anyway. Plus as it has been said many times before, these amps were built to be played loud :twisted:

Sorry for the long post

 

[155]

yo , I had a hotplate and got rid of it just wasnt needed with the roadster as far as I was concerned it sounds decent at low vols. Sounds like alot of hours on those tubes though, I would just grab a new set for piece of mind and keep the old as spares.

 

[Platypus]

Preamp tubes don't really lose tone, they just fail when they go bad and the tone difference is very apparent... and they last a long time typically. They are utilitarian in that aspect. Power tubes definitely do lose tone over time though. What you are describing is definitely a possibility with the age and wear on them. Typically you notice a lack of punch/bass and a loss of overall volume when they are starting to go. Loss of upper highs is common (in my experience) too.

I would try replacing the power tubes and see if you get your mojo back.

 

[Fixxer6671]

Sounds like a tube issue. In general, Don't use an attenuator.... I am not a fan and with MESA's your not getting any benefit, especially the more modern amps like the roadster.

Change your power tubes, and you should be cool.

Pre amp tues RARELY need to be changed unless they get all microphonic.

Can I ask why you went back to the stock tubes and did not keep the JT 77' in?

I am asking because I was thinking about doing that, and wonder why you went back to stock.

 

[vertigo_]

Sounds like a tube issue. In general, Don't use an attenuator.... I am not a fan and with MESA's your not getting any benefit, especially the more modern amps like the roadster.

Change your power tubes, and you should be cool.

Pre amp tues RARELY need to be changed unless they get all microphonic.

Can I ask why you went back to the stock tubes and did not keep the JT 77' in?

I am asking because I was thinking about doing that, and wonder why you went back to stock.

I think the roadster sounds really good with the stock pickups.

 

[jdurso]

Sounds like a tube issue. In general, Don't use an attenuator.... I am not a fan and with MESA's your not getting any benefit, especially the more modern amps like the roadster.

Change your power tubes, and you should be cool.

Pre amp tues RARELY need to be changed unless they get all microphonic.

Can I ask why you went back to the stock tubes and did not keep the JT 77' in?

I am asking because I was thinking about doing that, and wonder why you went back to stock.

yeah i'm probably going to return the attenuator because while it does what it does very well i think its almost not worth it because unlike some older marshalls and hiwatts ive played that keep getting louder as you raise the output, my roadster really starts to clips around 1 oclock and from there on out its a very slight increase in volume with a not so desirable tone.

as for the kt77s... well one day i switched back just to compare how big a difference there was. needless to say i started playing, got on a roll and then laziness kicked in and i never got around to throwing the kt77s back in. i will though tonight and might ride those tubes out until they start to go.

 

[jdurso]

Preamp tubes don't really lose tone, they just fail when they go bad and the tone difference is very apparent... and they last a long time typically. They are utilitarian in that aspect. Power tubes definitely do lose tone over time though. What you are describing is definitely a possibility with the age and wear on them. Typically you notice a lack of punch/bass and a loss of overall volume when they are starting to go. Loss of upper highs is common (in my experience) too.

I would try replacing the power tubes and see if you get your mojo back.

yeah that pretty much describes it because i found myself playing with the bass eqs a lot lately and the highs have been very (i hate to say this) smooth to the point of them being more desirable then with the tubes new. i just wnated to make sure i wasnt overlooking something.

 

[jdurso]

Sounds like a tube issue. In general, Don't use an attenuator.... I am not a fan and with MESA's your not getting any benefit, especially the more modern amps like the roadster.

Change your power tubes, and you should be cool.

Pre amp tues RARELY need to be changed unless they get all microphonic.

Can I ask why you went back to the stock tubes and did not keep the JT 77' in?

I am asking because I was thinking about doing that, and wonder why you went back to stock.

I think the roadster sounds really good with the stock pickups.

surely you mean power tubes... :wink:

 

[Kaz]

Sounds like a tube issue. In general, Don't use an attenuator.... I am not a fan and with MESA's your not getting any benefit, especially the more modern amps like the roadster.

Change your power tubes, and you should be cool.

Pre amp tues RARELY need to be changed unless they get all microphonic.

Can I ask why you went back to the stock tubes and did not keep the JT 77' in?

I am asking because I was thinking about doing that, and wonder why you went back to stock.

I think the roadster sounds really good with the stock pickups.

surely you mean power tubes... :wink:

I put some EMGs in my Roadster, it was teh br00talz! :lol: :lol:

 

[vertigo_]

I think the roadster sounds really good with the stock pickups.

surely you mean power tubes... :wink:

I put some EMGs in my Roadster, it was teh br00talz! :lol: :lol:

LOL...goddamn web programming ya I meant stock tubes. They sound very nice to me.

 

[scruffydoo]

attenuators are well known for burning up power tubes fast and/or tipping any dodgy ones over the edge.

 

[jdurso]

so i popped in the kt-77s in there that are still pretty fresh and it was like a breathe of fresh air. Everything sounded strong, almost too strong considering all the tweaking ive been doing with the older tubes. So after a few quick adjustments things were all good.

I still like the 6l6 cleans over the kt77 cleans but i'll deal for now. I just find the kt77s still too harsh for me to used the tweed mode on channel 1 which to me sounds killer with the 6l6s in the amp. The thing i hate though is how great the channel 3 vintage sounds with the kt77s and the fact that the cleans still carry some of that el34 vibe with them. So i think eventually i'll go back to 6l6s or maybe try something else like the kt66 or 6v6.

 

[domct203]

When you use an attenuator so you can run your power section hard (loud), you really put a beating on those power tubes.

It's not the attenuator that wears out your power tubes, it's the high master volume setting on the amp.

I found an EQ in the loop very effective at low-volume playing. This way I don't have to change the amp's EQ at low volume. My Hotplate now sees more use as a recording tool or dummy load.

Dom

 

[nitrous2400]

I think the tone loss is just gonna get worse and you should just give me your roadster :lol:

nah i keed i keed ... the attenuator isnt helping your problem and if anything is speeding up the wear and tear on your tubes, putting more load on them is just as bad as playing super loud to get the same toan and inflicting just as much wear. but its all good if they lasted a year which is common, chances are if they hadnt blown up within the first few months they normally last a good deal of time. And to your jj question ive heard good things bout them im still considering what tubes to get for my retube, i was gonna go for the eurotubes kt88 and kt66 kit with ec83s and the gz34 rectifier upgrade but im stopped playing in the crazy drop tuned band and playing more progressive stuff now so yeah...

I just actually got a new book and from what i read most jj 6l6 tubes yield higher avg output and sound more robust compared to other brands... their supposed to be slightly tighter with bass response and still the clear top end compared to the avg 6l6... only problem is from the reviews ive read some have had a shorter life span. Its a cool book and the info for the jj 6l6 was gathered from the tech articles on the groove tube 6l6-s which is made by jj/tesla

guess i gotta keep reading to find out more :lol:

 

[fishyfishfish]

Depending on how you set your attenuator you can go through tubes like wild fire, not worth it to me. Granted some amps take to them well, but why try to kill your amp when it can die on it's own?

 

[jdurso]

Depending on how you set your attenuator you can go through tubes like wild fire, not worth it to me. Granted some amps take to them well, but why try to kill your amp when it can die on it's own?

i dont have that much attenuation (usually -4 or -8 db which actually volumewise isnt too much) and i still only have my output at about 10 so i'm not pushing the amp that much harder. I attribute this whole thing to timing because those 6l6s had a lot of hours on them before the attenuator, so basically it just through them over the edge. So yes i am aware the set back of using an attenuator in that it goes through the tubes quicker. But its not going to kill the amp unless you know something i dont.

 

[jdurso]

When you use an attenuator so you can run your power section hard (loud), you really put a beating on those power tubes.

It's not the attenuator that wears out your power tubes, it's the high master volume setting on the amp.

I found an EQ in the loop very effective at low-volume playing. This way I don't have to change the amp's EQ at low volume. My Hotplate now sees more use as a recording tool or dummy load.

Dom

getting the attenuator wasnt about playing at low volumes for me. It was to get a more cranked tone at a tolerable volume (which is the way you should use them). so it does its job in spades but after i've noticed i'm really only using the -4 or -8 db settings which volume-wise isnt a huge enough difference to my ears in terms of volume so i'm going to return it. its really about hitting the sweet spot of the speakers for me, where you start feeling your tone if that makes sense, so i'm not into playing this puppy unless its at that point.