Roadster lag fix

[.DuFF.]

Effects loop, maybe? My delay pedal amplifies the slight pop between the channels making it much more pronounced. Zero pop when its bypassed.

I have no pedals on the loop... just a Korg Pitchblack tuner in the Tuner Out.
I'll try hard bypassing the entire loop circuit (using that switch on the rear) to test the amp totally raw...

 

[mcaviel]

You know- I always had the reverb "on" even though I never dialed any in on channels 3 and 4....that could explain why I never had any lag...

+100

 

[iceman]

I noticed on page 15 of the roadster manual it reads

It is normal to experience approximately 1-2 seconds of delay before the REVERB is mixed with the dry signal after switching the REVERB or Channels. This intentional built-in delay prevents both switching noise from the hard bypass relays used to isolate the pure dry signal from the effected REVERB signal, and the prior Channels sound coming through the REVERB in the current Channel when switching. At first this may seem strange, but after a couple minutes in real world situations you will see that it is preferable to the embarrassing alternative of a loud overdriven crunch chord drowning out your beautiful clean passage in the middle of a breakdown

So it isn't a bug it's a feature?

 

[echoes420]

I believe they are talking about the delay on the sound of the reverb mixing itself back in... which is to be expected if you ask me.

 

[gradyogle]

Hahaha. I always have my reverb on, anyway. I guess that's why I haven't had a problem.

 

[CM_X5]

I never knew Roadsters had a lag problem, luckily I never have reverb off on anything. I always need even the slightest amount. Good info to know anyway as I was planning on buying a Roadster head this summer.

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

I noticed on page 15 of the roadster manual it reads

It is normal to experience approximately 1-2 seconds of delay before the REVERB is mixed with the dry signal after switching the REVERB or Channels. This intentional built-in delay prevents both switching noise from the hard bypass relays used to isolate the pure dry signal from the effected REVERB signal, and the prior Channels sound coming through the REVERB in the current Channel when switching. At first this may seem strange, but after a couple minutes in real world situations you will see that it is preferable to the embarrassing alternative of a loud overdriven crunch chord drowning out your beautiful clean passage in the middle of a breakdown

So it isn't a bug it's a feature?

It can be a feature that many people enjoy. Several manufacturers such as Eventide themselves have a DSP option on their stompbox and rack processing units (AFAIK) to allow only the dry signal to come through after you turn on bypass, so that your sea of wet signals don't come through. On the other hand, they also offer the DSP+FX option to have the effect trail at the end along with the dry signal after you turn on the bypass. I hope that makes senses...

Also, they have the killdry option which simulate the reverse of that, whereby the dry signal gets cut out immediately after you turn off the effect, only leaving the wet signal to trail at the end...

 

[kryho]

my Roadster is still popping when switching tuner out :?

 

[MesaMonster]

Does this apply to the Road King II as well? I do the channel cycle thing and I don't have any pop after that. I never really noticed the lab before. I ususally stay on one channel for the entire song and then switch in between. I am also doing the RJM Mini Amp Gizmo to switch my channels so that should keep it quiet. I am using the Line 6 M9 to trigger the Gizmo. Smooth and Sweet.

 

[giantstepjoe]

Well that explains why I didn't see the problem. Mine has always been on but only dialed up on channels 1 & 2.

Same here.

 

[Purist]

I always have my reverb switched on, and didn't realize it was off the other night at band practice. We were playing LOUD.. all of a sudden I had these 2-4 second lags of pure silence in between channel switches. I just about lost my mind thinking I had pushed my MESA roadster too hard.

I hope this really fixes the problem, cause I've got a gig this weekend. Haven't tested it out yet. :?

 

[bumble bee]

I've got the same problem on a Rect-o-verb...The reverb switching always have a 2 second delay...it's lake a fade in effect.

Do you know if its normal on this particular model?

 

[starrsound]

If anyone can help me confirm or deny what I'm about to tell you I would be grateful. So would a lot of other owners, I suspect.

My Roadster lags badly when it's hot. I played what amounted to an outdoor gig in Texas last weekend & got 3-5 second lag after the first set.
So I bought a heat gun.

If I point the heat gun at the mute circuit bits I can get the collector voltage of the driving transistor (6426P) to drop from 11-12V down to 1V even while the base of the transistor is pulled down with the 10K resistor. Somewhere around 4-5V the muting will kick in. I pulled all the pieces around the transistor & tested them for heat stability. They are all good so I'm left with the transistor.

What I think is happening is that as the transistor gets hot it pulls more collector current & gets the collector voltage dangerously close to the 5V threshold. Once the mute is triggered & then released back to "cutoff" there is not enough voltage available on the collector to release the jfets until one or more of the caps in the muting circuit charge back up. Interestingly, there is a 2uf2 cap charging through a 2M2 resistor that should take about 4.8 seconds to charge. This corresponds nicely with how long my mute lag lasts.

Is there a better transistor to use? (I am not an EE...)

I'm going to find a heatsink to fit onto the transistor & see if that will be enough to stabilize it. Failing that, I'm going to devise some kind of venting. Maybe a grill in the bottom of the case or something.


Anyway, if anyone wants to help me out in establishing the root cause that would be great.
thanks.
Dave

 

[c.t.d-nicke]

If anyone can help me confirm or deny what I'm about to tell you I would be grateful. So would a lot of other owners, I suspect.

My Roadster lags badly when it's hot. I played what amounted to an outdoor gig in Texas last weekend & got 3-5 second lag after the first set.
So I bought a heat gun.

If I point the heat gun at the mute circuit bits I can get the collector voltage of the driving transistor (6426P) to drop from 11-12V down to 1V even while the base of the transistor is pulled down with the 10K resistor. Somewhere around 4-5V the muting will kick in. I pulled all the pieces around the transistor & tested them for heat stability. They are all good so I'm left with the transistor.

What I think is happening is that as the transistor gets hot it pulls more collector current & gets the collector voltage dangerously close to the 5V threshold. Once the mute is triggered & then released back to "cutoff" there is not enough voltage available on the collector to release the jfets until one or more of the caps in the muting circuit charge back up. Interestingly, there is a 2uf2 cap charging through a 2M2 resistor that should take about 4.8 seconds to charge. This corresponds nicely with how long my mute lag lasts.

Is there a better transistor to use? (I am not an EE...)

I'm going to find a heatsink to fit onto the transistor & see if that will be enough to stabilize it. Failing that, I'm going to devise some kind of venting. Maybe a grill in the bottom of the case or something.


Anyway, if anyone wants to help me out in establishing the root cause that would be great.
thanks.
Dave

Hi Dave

Read this:
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=37594&start=45
scroll down to my update post. I think you're on to something!

Plus I have the reverb on all the time so the lag is totally gone!

nicke

 

[Purist]

This is good to know for sure. I've still been struggling with "is my amp going to die" stress during gigs and practices since last summer! Guess I need to take it into my local MESA tech and tell him the specifics I've read here and on the other topic here: http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=37594&start=45

Thanks c.t.d-nicke and starrsound!

 

[Bisconne]

Hello!
New Roadster user here.
So far very happy. Was gonna buy Mark IV but turned out I was not a Mark guy…

Well, I must say that despite having reverb on I still experience lag while switching between channels and also an audible tone change (drop/suck) when switching loop on.
Does anyone have any idea what might be the problem?

Thanx.

 

[khingpynn]

New Road King owner here. and yes I had lag issues until idialed in the reverb on each channel and left it on!
Interesting...

 

[brianr0131]

Thanks for the great tip

 

[themightyjay]

I'm experiencing a lag with switching as well. Unfortunately I don't have the footswitch and use a G-System to change channels.

Is there any way of keeping the reverb switched in or minimising the lag with this set up?

 

[ikhor]

I Have a Roadster combo, sometimes got the lag sometimes dont, I will check this workaround.