Roadster combo? Or rackmount recto pre?

[Seanthesheep]

Hey guys, just joined here and got a bunch of questions about mesas, mainly im curious about amps. Right now my current amp (peavey 6534+) isnt cutting it for me. I run it though an old mesa 412 with 2 C90s and 2 vintage blackshadows. This setup id say is 80% of the way there for my ideal distorted tone, but pretty far from my ideal clean tpne ( wayyyyyyy to bright for my likings). Im going to try and get out there and try out dofferent speaker cabinets, mainly the orange closed back 212 and the bogner OS 212 but whatever else i can find.
Right now i am considering the option of selling my current setup to buy myself some kind of recto setup (ive always loved the recto sound and always wish my peavey has more thump). Right now i am torn between 2 setups, ether a roadster 2x12 combo with an additional roadster 112 or 212 cab for gigs or a rackmount recto preamp and the mesa 2:100 poweramp.

The rackmount way will be alot more expensive whichleans me away froom it, but the roadster is supposedly heavy as hell plus im not sure if you can still get that massive recto sound from a 2x12 combo.

The roadster is the most favourable route i think, especially with the extension cab for my bands shows and such, but the quality of the speaker enclosire concerns me if you get what i mean.

Any insight would be very much appreciatedthanks!

 

[ifailedshapes]

I won't add confusion by throwing more options into the mix, so between those two, Roadster all the way. 4 channels, reverb, lots of foot-switchable options. Yeah, Roadster.

 

[Seanthesheep]

Oh btw its probably useful to mention that I am really into metal, play in a metal band but i do mess around with alot of dofferent styles. Im deff open to more suggestions, but right now im trying to keep costs as low as possible, the roadster seems the best to me, but EQing has also always turned me off mesa, like i love tweaking and all, but i mean ive play several rectos of dofferent kinds before, and none of them sounded like a recto, they for the most part sounded hollow and weak bit im 100% sure ita my EQing, because at gigs i see guys pull put dual and triple recs and everytime i end up drooling over their tone

The roadster combo costs around lets say 2500$ with taxes. How much does the 112 ported roadster cab cost? If i can keep everything under 3k that will be ideal. As i can probably only make 1500$ from selling my current rig.

 

[ifailedshapes]

Oh btw its probably useful to mention that I am really into metal, play in a metal band but i do mess around with alot of dofferent styles. Im deff open to more suggestions, but right now im trying to keep costs as low as possible, the roadster seems the best to me, but EQing has also always turned me off mesa, like i love tweaking and all, but i mean ive play several rectos of dofferent kinds before, and none of them sounded like a recto, they for the most part sounded hollow and weak bit im 100% sure ita my EQing, because at gigs i see guys pull put dual and triple recs and everytime i end up drooling over their tone

The roadster combo costs around lets say 2500$ with taxes. How much does the 112 ported roadster cab cost? If i can keep everything under 3k that will be ideal. As i can probably only make 1500$ from selling my current rig.

If you're a Recto fan, the new Multi-watt Dual Recs are pretty sweet amps. Be honest with yourself and see if you really need 4 channels. Granted, the Roadster also has reverb, but in my honest opinion, it's far from the best reverb I've ever heard.

If you can break free from Rectifiers, you really need to give the Mark V a try. The Mark V is currently my favorite amp from any manufacturer.

Then there's always the sleepers in Mesa's lineup - the Stiletto, Electra Dyne, and Royal Atlantic.

Now here's where I get honest. I don't really like Rectifier tone, and that's why you don't see one listed in my signature. This doesn't mean that I haven't spent countless hours testing them, though. Others on here, though, will have more experience, and will hopefully be able to give you some better advice.

 

[RectoStudioGuy]

I use the Recto Pre as my all purpose pre with great success. The clean channel is way warm with voicing selections and without the ear-shattering highs. The dist. channel is super fat, again with voicing selections. Throw an eq in there and tweak it to your liking...simple as that.

 

[TremoJem]

If I had to do all over I would never get a combo again.

Don't get me wrong, I love my two Tremoverbs, but rolling tubes would be a BREEZE if I had two heads instead of two combos.

I like the fact that the heat created by the tubes in a head is LESS than what you have in a combo too.

I like the fact that I can isolate the head from the speakers to reduce vibration.

I like all the choices in speaker enclosures and not being tied to the open back combo configuration.

Just my opinion.

 

[Blaklynx]

OK, I don't own a Roadster but am thinking of buying one. My thoughts:

You've got the Mesa cab, why not keep it as a starting point? You should be a little familiar with the cabs tone by now. Exchange the head (sell/swap) and go from there. I'd get a Roadster head. With a seperate cab, you can always try different speaker combinations. From what I've read, C90's with V30's are very popular. Try it.
The combos are heavy. The Rectoverb I have is surprisingly heavy, can't imagine the Roadster. It'll be awkward to handle/lift.

Also, Recto amps aren't known for their ease of dialling in. They're not known to be great 'solo/lead' amps, either. Rhythm? No trouble. If you want singing, liquid sustain, these amps need help via a boost/OD pedal (TS9, 808 type pedals, other OD pedals) to push the front end. The pedals also cear up some of the mud. An EQ in the loop helps greatly, too (some users don't like EQ's). There's plenty of info on these boards regarding pedals and EQ's for Recto amps, so search. These amps are not plug and play. I'd say the Peavey would be alot easier to dial in (I own a JSX and it is an easy amp to dial in and get along with). You'll find that rectos sound best turned up loud, so don't expect bedroom levels to blow you away with tone.

Lastly, and ultimately, you need to like the recto sound/tone otherwise you'll be fighting a battle. Plenty have fought this battle only to find that other Mesa series amps are for them or some other brand of amp. Go test before taking a huge step to be sure.

Good luck with your search.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Oh btw its probably useful to mention that I am really into metal, play in a metal band but i do mess around with alot of dofferent styles. Im deff open to more suggestions, but right now im trying to keep costs as low as possible, the roadster seems the best to me, but EQing has also always turned me off mesa, like i love tweaking and all, but i mean ive play several rectos of dofferent kinds before, and none of them sounded like a recto, they for the most part sounded hollow and weak bit im 100% sure ita my EQing, because at gigs i see guys pull put dual and triple recs and everytime i end up drooling over their tone

The roadster combo costs around lets say 2500$ with taxes. How much does the 112 ported roadster cab cost? If i can keep everything under 3k that will be ideal. As i can probably only make 1500$ from selling my current rig.

An Orange cab is a brighter cab. They also tend to sound muddy with Rectos as they don't seem to handle a lot of low midrange very well. IMO, they're better with amps that produce more high mids. If you want darker, get a Recto cab.

If you want to reduce weight, get a Roadster head and a Recto 2x12 instead of the combo. It'll also make it easier should you ever want to start using a 4x12 with it.

I used to use a Recto Pre/2:100. It sounds great, but it's nowhere near as versatile as a Roadster and moving it is a huge pain in the ass due to the weight of the power amp in addition to the weight of the rack itself.

 

[Rkorn]

My 50cents.
Get a Mark V (beautiful cleans, i'd say it beats most fenders out there), the distortion, for metal... is also perfect (I play mostly extreme metal).
With the weight problem, i dealt with it by buying a used Recto 3ch for a GREAT price!
The MV is exclusive for gigs and home playing (10watt), and the recto rehearsals. The V goes to rehearsal place the day before the show!
When i can, i take both to the gig for AB, both distortions just blow away the crowd... my band mate does the same!!!

Also, Combos are only REAL combos if they are Mesa Boogie. Never seen a Combo perform like the ones from Mesa.
A 212 MESA combo gets louder and more effective than any marshall/peavey/engl head with a 412 raging from rock to extreme metal.

Mesa brings this great problem... when you get one, you'll never be able to do with another brand because it just doesn't cut it!

There are 2 bands that I have seen in past few months that just made me Awe their tone live. Devin Townsend and Rammstein.
Both have Mesa Boogie! (and believe me, i was back there to confirm it)

I just like it when i go some place and someone says "This is amp great, it is the best, it is the high end of the brand!!! Its the closest to Mesa Boogie"

I had a 6505 Head, perfect when playing all alone, then you add drums, bass, and another guitar with a Mesa and you disappear! If this didn't happen i still had my peavey instead of getting a MV. All great bands have Mesa in the studio...
Metallica, megadeth, Emperor, devil driver, strapping young lad, paradise lost (just to name a few)... Go with Any Boogie!!!! Any Boogie will have Great distortion for metal and awsome cleans!!! Stiletto, Mark or Rec... I hate for things to be this way!!! But they just are!!
Maybe you can wait some months and try the Mini Rec... that cannot be a crappy amp because those bastards at Boogie don't seem to get it wrong at building amps!

Sorry for the long statement but this had to be said, it is what almost everyone is thinking!!!

Don't get me wrong, i had problems with mine, but the guys were great and quickly everything was ok.
I would also love to have that typical marshall Set up just for the looks, but the tone... :?

 

[Seanthesheep]

Well weight for the most part doesnt concern me too much (even if i made it seem otherwise is previous posts), im a pretty young guy, and already lugvaround a 100lb 412 so if the roadster combo is 100lb its not too bad i think. Right not my gripes with my cirrent mesa cab is that there is way to much high end and way too lottle bass response, i am mainly a rhythm player and i do prefer the hugeness of. Recto over the tightness of a mark.

My local store will have roadster head, mayhe the combo, theyll have mark Vs amd they have a bogner uberschall that ill try too, but unless i can magivally alter my current amp or find something more appealing than the roadster combo plus extension cab route, i think thatll be what i end up with

 

[TremoJem]

posting by: Blaklynx
Also, Recto amps aren't known for their ease of dialing in. They're not known to be great 'solo/lead' amps, either. Rhythm? No trouble. If you want singing, liquid sustain, these amps need help via a boost/OD pedal (TS9, 808 type pedals, other OD pedals) to push the front end.
posting by: Blaklynx


That is interesting.

I am able to get an incredible lead/solo tone out of my two Tremoverbs...BUT it has to be at a certain volume.

If I am too low, it is thin or transparent.

If I am to high, it is lacking in exactly the characteristics that you spoke to in your post.

I don't think I ever read something like that before and give you credit for speaking up.

I never really had (until recently) a chance to "open" up my amps as everyone talks about.

I have NEVER liked High/Loud stage volumes, but unfortunately I never had Mesa products when I did play out live.

But, my practices with my band are "stage volume" which is to say we all compete or "Mix" to the level of the ambient drum kit level.

Having said that, I have two amps both running in stereo in a medium size, "dead" (acoustically) room, and they fill very nicely so I might be at 30-35% open.

It is a different story in the new rehearsal room, as it is three times the size and very "alive" (acoustically) I would say that I am about 50% open on my overall output in this new room.

Now here is my point, at this new volume I am understanding a little more what people mean when they say nothing sounds like a recto when it is running at high output, BUT at this volume I do LOSE the "singing, liquid sustain that I am accustom too.

Just one other observation, I use rectifier tubes/spongy settings. I have tried other settings using these controls/switches and have noticed more output and more gain, but not necessarily better tracking as others have mentioned. I am not really sure which I like better. If I choose silicon diode/bold, I have to reduce the channel masters and I don't like that, but I will continue to experiment and dial it in, which is another great bit of wisdom you share in your post...these amps are NOT easy to dial in and require patience and the will to succeed. I personally appreciate that attention to detail by Mesa

My question is, will something like the "Xotic" BB Plus help for this problem?

Thanks all...

sorry for not getting the "quote" function to work when quoting Blaklynx

 

[screamingdaisy]

posting by: Blaklynx
Also, Recto amps aren't known for their ease of dialing in. They're not known to be great 'solo/lead' amps, either. Rhythm? No trouble. If you want singing, liquid sustain, these amps need help via a boost/OD pedal (TS9, 808 type pedals, other OD pedals) to push the front end.
posting by: Blaklynx


That is interesting.

I am able to get an incredible lead/solo tone out of my two Tremoverbs...BUT it has to be at a certain volume.

If I am too low, it is thin or transparent.

If I am to high, it is lacking in exactly the characteristics that you spoke to in your post.

I have an older 2 channel and I agree. It's very hard to get a great lead tone out of it.

With the Roadster however getting a great lead tone was super easy. I'm not sure what they did to it (although I suspect it's probably more compression), but getting a great lead tone was super easy. Vintage high gain with the tube rectifier on and fairly generic gain/EQ settings. It also stacks with a tube screamer really well.

Now here is my point, at this new volume I am understanding a little more what people mean when they say nothing sounds like a recto when it is running at high output, BUT at this volume I do LOSE the "singing, liquid sustain that I am accustom too.

What are your typical (lower volume) settings?

 

[screamingdaisy]

You've got the Mesa cab, why not keep it as a starting point? You should be a little familiar with the cabs tone by now.

It's an older Boogie cab. Different animal than a Recto cab. I don't have a lot of experience with them, but I remember them being brighter.

Well weight for the most part doesnt concern me too much (even if i made it seem otherwise is previous posts), im a pretty young guy, and already lugvaround a 100lb 412 so if the roadster combo is 100lb its not too bad i think.

The issue is that it's a single handle on the top of the amp. Fortunately it has wheels, but lifting 100lbs and carrying it up flights of stairs by a single handle is ******' balls. At least with a head/2x12 I can carry one in each hand and it sort of balances out.

I'm also not a big fan of higher powered combos due to the tubes being in such close proximity to the speaker. On smaller amps I don't find it to be a huge deal, but on big 100w amps you can hear it beating the sh*t out of the tubes.

 

[domct203]

I love my Roadster, but if you don't need the reverb or extra channel, the new Multi-watt Dual is also a good option.

I also will recommend a head version of whatever you get. Much lighter to move and more options with different cabinets. Beside, who doesn't like the look of a half stack (or full stack for that matter :twisted: )?

Also, when I bought my Recto 2:One Hundred I was told it had been discontinued. I had a hard time finding a new one about 5 months ago, so used may be your only option. That poweramp is heavy as hell!

My best advise? If you are set on a Recto, get a Recto!

Dom

 

[TremoJem]

posting by: Blaklynx
Also, Recto amps aren't known for their ease of dialing in. They're not known to be great 'solo/lead' amps, either. Rhythm? No trouble. If you want singing, liquid sustain, these amps need help via a boost/OD pedal (TS9, 808 type pedals, other OD pedals) to push the front end.
posting by: Blaklynx


That is interesting.

I am able to get an incredible lead/solo tone out of my two Tremoverbs...BUT it has to be at a certain volume.

If I am too low, it is thin or transparent.

If I am to high, it is lacking in exactly the characteristics that you spoke to in your post.

I have an older 2 channel and I agree. It's very hard to get a great lead tone out of it.

With the Roadster however getting a great lead tone was super easy. I'm not sure what they did to it (although I suspect it's probably more compression), but getting a great lead tone was super easy. Vintage high gain with the tube rectifier on and fairly generic gain/EQ settings. It also stacks with a tube screamer really well.

Now here is my point, at this new volume I am understanding a little more what people mean when they say nothing sounds like a recto when it is running at high output, BUT at this volume I do LOSE the "singing, liquid sustain that I am accustom too.

What are your typical (lower volume) settings?

All settings are "Clockface" references.

Lower volume settings are: Channel Two, Modern, Gain @ max, Channel Master @ 7-8, Active Loop Master @ 9-11

Higher volume settings are: Channel Two, Modern, Gain @ max, Channel Master @ 8-9, Active Loop Master @ 12-2

 

[screamingdaisy]

All settings are "Clockface" references.

Lower volume settings are: Channel Two, Modern, Gain @ max, Channel Master @ 7-8, Active Loop Master @ 9-11

Higher volume settings are: Channel Two, Modern, Gain @ max, Channel Master @ 8-9, Active Loop Master @ 12-2

Cool. I'll give them a try when I get home.

I will say that that is a lot of gain. I usually run mine at 12:00 for rhythm and 1:00 for lead. Channel master at 10:00. Loop master between 9:00 and 11:00.

 

[ifailedshapes]

The issue is that it's a single handle on the top of the amp. Fortunately it has wheels, but lifting 100lbs and carrying it up flights of stairs by a single handle is f%&#' balls. At least with a head/2x12 I can carry one in each hand and it sort of balances out.

I'm also not a big fan of higher powered combos due to the tubes being in such close proximity to the speaker. On smaller amps I don't find it to be a huge deal, but on big 100w amps you can hear it beating the sh*t out of the tubes.

I totally agree that combos rattle more. It's not even an opinion; it's a fact.

Every Roadster combo I've seen in person also has 2 side handles. I just did a Google image search, and it looks like some do and some don't. Either Mesa changed their design somewhere along the line, or the 1x12" combos only have the top handle and the 2x12" combos have the top handle as well as the side handles. Can anyone confirm either one of these scenarios?

 

[BostonRedSox]

Having only owned Fender combos before my RA, all of which never rattled, I can say that my RA doesn't rattle either -- at home, at practice, or at gigs (I've only gigged it once though). I received a busted RA that I shipped back and I can say that the broken one did rattle. Aside from the cosmetic scuffs on the busted amp, the rattle I heard was tube originated. I don't know if most tube amp combos do rattle (I wouldn't have any real empirical evidence to support such claims), but I can comment on the Boogie combo I currently own. Yay, for no rattle!

 

[Rkorn]

How do you see, or hear tubes rattle if the the speakers are blasting such a volume that makes the whole combo shake?????
My friend has an F-100 combo, and never had such problems with tubes. If Mesa makes them, it's because they work... shouldn't it be this way??
I read somewhere that 212 have better acoustic response and effect than 412, yet everyone prefers 412 instead of 2 212s...
Combos beating up tubes is something that surprises me, in all honesty!
An amp is built to sustain thousands of miles on the road! This is in fact quite strange to me! :?:

 

[TremoJem]

All settings are "Clockface" references.

Lower volume settings are: Channel Two, Modern, Gain @ max, Channel Master @ 7-8, Active Loop Master @ 9-11

Higher volume settings are: Channel Two, Modern, Gain @ max, Channel Master @ 8-9, Active Loop Master @ 12-2

Cool. I'll give them a try when I get home.

I will say that that is a lot of gain. I usually run mine at 12:00 for rhythm and 1:00 for lead. Channel master at 10:00. Loop master between 9:00 and 11:00.

It is important to note that tube and guitar options make a difference.

You may have high output pickups or high output preamp tubes.

I did make a change to my PI tube that included swapping the 12AX7 or a 12AT7 JAN Philips.

This may not have much of an impact.

Also I swapped Mesa in the V1 position for a Tung-Sol 12AX7

I also use =C= EL34 for one amp and =C= 6L6 for the other.

V2-V5 are Mesa issue 12AX7.

The rest of my gear is listed below.

Please note that I experienced the same loss of sustain and singing notes before any changes were made.