road king new mic technique just learned

[Aramism]

this is the producer Fredrik Nordström's method of putting like one mic DIRECTLTY at the center of the cone and another one right next to it


NOTE: THESE ARE NOT MY PICS!!!! THEY ARE FROM A STUDIO IN CANADA. I FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS FROM THE ANDYSNEAP.COM FORUM AND A GENTLEMEN FROM SPECTRE SOUND STUDIOS IN CANADA POSTED THIS PIC OF HIS SETUP IT HELPED GUIDE ME HOW TO POSITION MICS

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=643671


the one entitled "NEW MIC METHOD" is the track im talking about. the one with only guitars is self explanatory. same track but drums and bass taken out.


PLEASE NOTE I AM NOT MIKE PORTNOY OR FUCKIGN LES CLAYPOOL. i played bass and drums just to see how guitars sounded in mix. i play guitar so the drums and bass i just fucked around on.

this was on road king head + 4x12 cab

 

[petruccirocks02]

Sounds good to my ears. Thats a pretty cool tone. What were your settings? Just curious. Would you be able to post another clip, possibly with more gain. Like a really heavy clip? Good work.

-Phil

 

[Aramism]

thanks petruccirocks,


umm yea well another clip (though its not recorded as well it was recorded before i used this method) is on the same page entitled "rectoverb sample" it is done with a 7 string on my rectoverb combo that im selling (the clip was a made as a tone showcase for prospective buyers)





as far as the settings on the clip i posted with the better sound it is roughly as follows (im home now amp is in my studio im recalling as well as i can)

road king series 1 head
channel 3 vintage
2 6L6/ tube rectified

gain like 1:30
treble like 12:30
mids like 11:00
bass like 10:00 around
presence around 10:00


loops and output BYPASSED so master channel volumes only. volume was probably around 10:00 pretty loud.

 

[LnTh]

I would go easy on the high frequencies and add some mids. It's somewhat thin to my ears. Character is there though. Suits what your playing really well. just some eq problem.

 

[Aramism]

i miced the cab just like that. the "arrow" method. it picked up crazy shrill frequencies. the volume of the e609 which was STRAIGHT AHEAD at the cone was reduced to like 50% lower than originally tracked.



FYI lnth there is no eq or compression at all. just 2 parts of 4 tracks (2 mics on each part) panned hard L and R... its a pretty raw mix.


the only compression or eq is on the drums which are my default drum settings template.


i want to do it so that no eq is required. from what i understand the best guitar sounds are recorded and miced so well that very little if any eq or compression is needed. im trying to achieve that. though i will try boosting the mids on the eq and see what happens.

 

[ylo]

Sounds great! Have you tried reversing the phase of one side of the mix? Just curious whether that would sound better or worse.

 

[Aramism]

hmm i didnt notice a phase problem... ill try anyway, shouldnt make much of a difference.

 

[LnTh]

i miced the cab just like that. the "arrow" method. it picked up crazy shrill frequencies. the volume of the e609 which was STRAIGHT AHEAD at the cone was reduced to like 50% lower than originally tracked.



FYI lnth there is no eq or compression at all. just 2 parts of 4 tracks (2 mics on each part) panned hard L and R... its a pretty raw mix.


the only compression or eq is on the drums which are my default drum settings template.


i want to do it so that no eq is required. from what i understand the best guitar sounds are recorded and miced so well that very little if any eq or compression is needed. im trying to achieve that. though i will try boosting the mids on the eq and see what happens.

Oh sorry i meant eq problem on the amp. I didn't assume you did post eq. I like raw recordings/mixes alot. If what you're hearing in the room is beefier than this, play with the mic position a little more. Like you said, it might've picked the extreme high freq. on the clip that you weren't necessarily hearing clearly in the room.

 

[Aramism]

room was a tad more beefy. however my studio has no insulation at all. just bare walls and a lot of places for the sound to bounce around as my studfio is not a square.



so i really have a sweet spot where i stand. thats the sound i hear in my head and my true tone.


like when i jam or when i just play to graitfy myself i just stand there my head facing towards the top corner (v30) of my cab. road king is oh so sweet. as are dimarzio loaded ibanez guitars!!!!

i have to work on recreating that sound....

 

[tele_jas]

Wow, that was a pretty "tight" sounding rhythm!!! I'll have to try that method next time I record, thanks!! I bet it works great for cleans too.

I've done the "off axis" on the grill along with one about a foot away, but not both right on the grill.

Thanks for the tip and GREAT tones!!

 

[Aramism]

no prob dude good luck. i want to get it a little tighter and more in your face. i'm gonna try to cut out some of the nasty high freq on the center mic. maybe it will smooth it out. my goal is to eventually get like andy sneap's arch enemy type in your face tones.


i always used to mic off axis on grille but it was always too muddy. putting it an inch off center or right on axis is where its at...

 

[mrd]

Sounds pretty good, but I agree it could be a bit more "in your face". Maybe try something as simple as just turning your amp up to create some more sweet tube vibes. I've found that my Road King doesn't really start growling until it gets quite loud. Then again I have a series II, it might be slightly different? Not sure. I might post up some clips tomorrow morning with my amp cranked up, I wanna try this new mic method, I've heard of it before, never tried it though. I've always found that anything facing straight on picks up a butt-load of bass freqs, but I'll see what happens and make the necessary adjustments. I usually have to turn my bass knob down to about 8 or 9 oclock when I record, when I normally play with it at 1-3 oclock. Even with my mixer's bass EQ turned all the way off, the bass still muddies it up a lot.

What mics are you using, you mentioned the e609, I have that one, a very nice mic. What else you got?

 

[Aramism]

i am using a sennhesier e609 RIGHT CENTER ON THE CONE and a shure sm57 right next to it angled....


so the 609 is on axis 100% the sm57 is off axis and angled at like 45 deg angle.



on axis sounds pick up more hiss and high freq than bass. putting it furhter away from the dustcap or more off axid will give you gobs of bass. every engineering article i've read states that the biggest KNOB that people dial in too much in recordings is bass....... i always play with my bass around 9:00-11:00 depending on my guitar i'm using (pickup response etc)



if anything dont forget you have to lower the volume of the mic that is more on axis (in my case the 609) in this recording i believe i had it "padded" at -6db because it is way too bright. but that's the point a tad of the bright sound gives you the overall brightness in the mix with the other mic. and double tracked it sounds wicked. it's just moving it around because when it's that close the the grille and the dustcap (center) of the speaker then every centimeter matters when you're talking about mic placement and some producers recomend cutting the center mics high in eq slightly to offset the buzz even more. this is what i'm working on now for the past week with mixed results but rome wasnt build in a day and i am after a truly flawless chunky sound....

the recording i have after this one in question i just posted on this board, it isn't much heavy playing but it's something, and keep in mind the backing track was awfully mixed so it was hard enough to mix everything and make it sound good. i think the guitars sound a lot better though.

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=9405

 

[mr_fender]

Multiple mic's can get you some really great sounds. You have to be careful with mic's really close together like that, cause it's really easy to run into phase cancellation problems resulting in a thin and weird scooped or filtered sound. However, this can sometimes be a good thing, if the frequencies getting cancelled out are the right ones. Adjusting the angle between the two mics will change the amount and location in the frequency spectrum of the phase/filter effect. To minimize the effect, try pointing the mic's at exactly the same point, but at 90 degrees from each other. Sometimes you can reverse the phase of one of the mics at the board to help too. I like to combine one close dynamic mic and one distant condenser mic. By adjusting the mix between the two tracks you can dial in different amounts of smoothness and air. I once read an article about Bob Rock stating that when in the studio with Metallica he would sometimes use 4 or 5 different mics/tracks to capture just one amp sound, placing at different angles and distances from the speakers to get just the right mix of presence, room, and air. Add on top of that the multi-tracking of these sounds and the result is HUGE. Many studio engineers will tell you that experimenting with different mic'ing techniques will often get you much better and more natural sounding end results than using too much EQ to tweak a sound.

 

[mrd]

Multiple mic's can get you some really great sounds. You have to be careful with mic's really close together like that, cause it's really easy to run into phase cancellation problems resulting in a thin and weird scooped or filtered sound. However, this can sometimes be a good thing, if the frequencies getting cancelled out are the right ones. Adjusting the angle between the two mics will change the amount and location in the frequency spectrum of the phase/filter effect. To minimize the effect, try pointing the mic's at exactly the same point, but at 90 degrees from each other. Sometimes you can reverse the phase of one of the mics at the board to help too. I like to combine one close dynamic mic and one distant condenser mic. By adjusting the mix between the two tracks you can dial in different amounts of smoothness and air. I once read an article about Bob Rock stating that when in the studio with Metallica he would sometimes use 4 or 5 different mics/tracks to capture just one amp sound, placing at different angles and distances from the speakers to get just the right mix of presence, room, and air. Add on top of that the multi-tracking of these sounds and the result is HUGE. Many studio engineers will tell you that experimenting with different mic'ing techniques will often get you much better and more natural sounding end results than using too much EQ to tweak a sound.

Well said. I'd agree with that, since most people don't listen to what an amp has to say at 3 inches from it's speakers otherwise we'd all be deaf hah. I've tried doing some distance micing, I got some pretty good results but I only have 2 mics so it's hard to make it sound as good as it can. It definitely adds a bit of character to the tone though.

 

[JamesD]

I will hopefully be giving this mic'ing way a try in the near future. Except i will be running a SM57 and a Beta SM57A.

 

[mr_fender]

There's something about mixing close and distant mic's that just sounds right to me. Close mic'd by itself tends to sound harsh and boomy, while distant mic'd alone can sound too airy and lack punch. However mixing the two just makes it sound so much more natural to me. It all depends on the sound you are shooting for and, of course, your personal preferences. At any rate, it's fun to mess with.