REISSUE Rumor: Mark IIC+ and 2ch Recto

[Jamme1961]

It just takes to much time for the techs to do the job right - better they post the sign then do a half ass job.

 

[Doug Doppler]

It certainly doesn't seem to be commonly reported. If it's a defective unit he might need to just return it.

I've certainly gotten that kind of issue with a number of my Marks at different times, but I was usually really pushing things harder than was reasonable.

Hey @danielpasco while I love the various eras ofMetallica, there is a world of fellow Boogie fanatics who set their clocks to the Master of Puppets tone, and given the tendency to pull 750 to zip, extreme is kind of the vibe and the manual is clear that the amp will feedback one certain extreme settings. My Mark IIB used to feedback on certain settings if the Reverb was too hot. And you're 100% on the money about pushing things harder than was reasonable. The manual talks about it and I don't think it's a defective amp, but it is a thing that Boogie documented, not trying to hide it. In any case. My $.02

 

[Fiveband]

Hey @danielpasco while I love the various eras ofMetallica, there is a world of fellow Boogie fanatics who set their clocks to the Master of Puppets tone, and given the tendency to pull 750 to zip, extreme is kind of the vibe and the manual is clear that the amp will feedback one certain extreme settings. My Mark IIB used to feedback on certain settings if the Reverb was too hot. And you're 100% on the money about pushing things harder than was reasonable. The manual talks about it and I don't think it's a defective amp, but it is a thing that Boogie documented, not trying to hide it. In any case. My $.02

I'd like to offer this perspective...
Most people know that lead dress can cause squeal issues. Stray currents go where we don't want them to.

Since the circuit board layout was completely changed to lend itself to mass production (i.e. ribbon cables), it is a legitimate concern as to whether these changes may have made the amp more susceptible to unwanted oscillation. Or made other changes to the character of the amp in general.

So I don't think this is an all or nothing issue. It could be a matter of degree.

 

[bandit2013]

OK, here is the bottom line from Mesa on use of EL34/6CA7 in the Class A sockets. Things did look promising there this morning. However I got an update on the last message (note that it was stated STR416 would be ideal too). Now for going full circuit with the Warranty.
Bottom line, Mesa will void the warranty in full if any EL34/6CA7 tubes are used in the Reissue.

Here is the last email I got today: It states if you cannot zoom in on it, Warranty is void in full if you use EL34 tubes regardless if they are NOS STR416, STR450, STR442 or any Mesa branded EL34. I cut and pasted the text from the email I forwarded to myself from work. I think this also ends the dialogue and no information regarding the plate voltages/currents will be discussed.


Mollie Bardessono (MESA/Boogie)

Dec 16, 2024, 11:14 PST

Hi Eric, a quick update. I just got clued into a thread with John Marshall and some other higher-ups here at Mesa. Unfortunately it does seem as though the official policy will be that using EL34s voids the warranty in full. Apologies for the confusion and conflicting info in previous communications, this was a developing issue. Sorry about any inconvenience this may cause.

Best,
Mollie Bardessono
Customer Service Representative
www.mesaboogie.com

 

[Doug Doppler]

If you run two outside EL34's they'll be biased colder then the 6l6's - the only problem with the el34 could be crossover distortion. Im not a tech but using el34's should not harm the amp right? My MKIV uses two el34's in the two outside slots - checking the bias on it the el34 run a lot cooler then the 6l6's - im a hack not a tech - just throwing it out there.

I found this on google -
generally speaking, EL34 tubes typically require less bias than 6L6 tubes, meaning they draw less current and therefore need to be set at a lower bias voltage when used in an amplifier designed for either tube type; this is because EL34s have a different internal design that operates with lower current draw compared to 6L6s.

Just saw @bandit2013's post, so I've edited my previous message. Please ignore, and for my benefit, is there a way to delete a post?!?

 

[danielpasco]

Wow. So *anything* that goes wrong with your amp, regardless, will not be covered by warranty if you use EL34s? That seems a tad draconian.

Also, I'm guessing that there's a class of failures that might be indicative of using EL34s, but I'm guessing that a lot of it would not be something they'd be able to tell for sure unless they asked and were told about.

Mesa: Did you use EL34s with this amp?
Customer: (guiltily) ...yes
Mesa: PUTZ

Mollie Bardessono (MESA/Boogie)

Dec 16, 2024, 11:14 PST

Hi Eric, a quick update. I just got clued into a thread with John Marshall and some other higher-ups here at Mesa. Unfortunately it does seem as though the official policy will be that using EL34s voids the warranty in full. Apologies for the confusion and conflicting info in previous communications, this was a developing issue. Sorry about any inconvenience this may cause.

Best,
Mollie Bardessono
Customer Service Representative
www.mesaboogie.com

View attachment 5515

 

[SonVolt]

For reals. Sometimes honesty is not the best policy.

 

[RayBarbeeMusic]

We have a really good tech in town that's been working on tube amps since Vietnam. He has a "No Stairway Mesa" sign in his shop.

I work on and mod the older ones. The newer ones cram so much in there, it's a real issue taking them apart to get to/replace anything. Doable, but time is money so....

 

[Theresa]

"Hi Eric, a quick update. I just got clued into a thread with John Marshall and some other higher-ups here at Mesa. Unfortunately it does seem as though the official policy will be that using EL34s voids the warranty in full. Apologies for the confusion and conflicting info in previous communications, this was a developing issue."

@bandit2013 Well... that just settles that doesn't it!?

 

[bandit2013]

Hey, if we want to understand something about a new amp, does not hurt to ask the manufacturer directly. Based on information shared, we do have an understanding what EL34 tubes that may be suitable for use: STR450, STR416 and STR442. Avoid the others. Do this at your own risk as using the EL34 in the Class A sockets will void the Warranty. Curiosity is peaked but I will listen to the Lark guitars demo first to hear if I can tell much of a difference. At the end of the video, he did change to the STR450 in the Class A sockets. He did not mention what was in the DRG original except for EL34/6L6. I doubt there will be much of a change. I suspect there may be some Mark VII going on with the output section (25W triode is a giveaway hint to the Mark VII 25W mode)

 

[mace]

Here is the last email I got today: It states if you cannot zoom in on it, Warranty is void in full if you use EL34 tubes regardless if they are NOS STR416, STR450, STR442 or any Mesa branded EL34. I cut and pasted the text from the email I forwarded to myself from work. I think this also ends the dialogue and no information regarding the plate voltages/currents will be discussed.


Mollie Bardessono (MESA/Boogie)

Dec 16, 2024, 11:14 PST

Hi Eric, a quick update. I just got clued into a thread with John Marshall and some other higher-ups here at Mesa. Unfortunately it does seem as though the official policy will be that using EL34s voids the warranty in full. Apologies for the confusion and conflicting info in previous communications, this was a developing issue. Sorry about any inconvenience this may cause.

Well, since the info came from a some random guy named Marshall, of course he's gonna just say whatever! What would he know about EL34's? LOL

 

[VisaL]

The customer communication is pure gibson-gold. Or comedy-gold. If the use of el34 will void the warranty, they know the transformer cant handle the marginally higher heater current of el34. Remember the bias will be lower with el34 and anyway the bias will only impact the tube-life, amp does not care about that.

Once more, some years back Mesa started to recommend el34 tubes for the outer sockects because modern 6l6s could not take the abuse. Outer pair is not class A where 100+% dissipation is ok, but in fact it is class ab biased to >100%. If you put el34s there those will bias around 90% and have a little longer life expectancy. If they now ship with 6L6GC, they have sourced more durable tubes (highly unlikely) or they did not re-create the mkii/iii simulclass circuit. Even of they did source more durable tubes, it does not make sense the use of el34 would void the warranty is rest of the amp is like mk2 used to be.

Some time ago i biased my old boogie so that it the outer paid is biased just under 80% instead of 105% and i’m sure very few would notice the difference, but i believe tubes will last longer. At the same time i took the inner pair plate dissipation higher to avoid crossover distortion due to being biased too low.

I am not an amp tech and i know **** all about electronics but i’m throwing this out there hoping someone from Mesa will see this and set the record straight. I quess we wanna know what has changed, why previously el34 was recommended and why it will now void the warranty. It does not make sense.

 

[cgscotto]

I am curious about the history of the EL34s in the outer sockets. When I bought my first Mark III back in the 90s, I was having a tube problem and called the Boogie service desk. The tech recommended EL34s in the outer sockets. I like the way they sounded with the inner 6L6s, so I have been running every MKIII that I have owned with EL34s in the outer sockets since then. The manual, of course, backs of this recommendation:

NOTE: In the past, MESA/Boogie advertised the "interchangeable power tubes" feature of the Mark III Simul-Class. We told players
that they could use either EL-34's or 6L6's in the outer (Class A) power sockets. However, in recent years we've observed a much
greater reliability factor with the use of EL-34's in these outer sockets, with much fewer incidents of tube failure. Therefore, today we
strongly recommend using EL-34's in the outer sockets and 6L6's in the inner sockets of your Simul-Class Boogie.

I have a copy of the MKIIC+ OC manual, and nowhere does it mention using EL34s in the outer sockets. At the time of the IIC+ production, Mesa must have had a good supply of the STR 415, so the need to recommend EL34s in the outer sockets may not have existed.

My point is maybe it is a mistake to expect the IIC+ RI to use EL34s since it seems they were not recommended for the OG because as the part of the quote I italicized says, this was feature of the Mark III. Since the manual makes no mention of EL34s, this change must have been communicated verbally through Mesa techs.

The history of EL34s in the MKIII is well documented, so, what is the history behind EL34s in the IIC+?

 

[MaceFremonti]

Just noticed in the manual that came with my reissue it is missing the whole section on the volume 1 pull bright and shows the class A sockets as V6 and V7, the INNER sockets, online manual has the pull bright section and shows the class A sockets as V8 and V9...

 

[Doug Doppler]

OK, micro rant. Doug and the team at Boogie know what the heck they're doing when it comes to bu

Well, since the info came from a some random guy named Marshall, of course he's gonna just say whatever! What would he know about EL34's? LOL

NOW THAT was hilarious @mace - well played, well played!!!

 

[Doug Doppler]

Hello Boogie Boarders! Just dropped the second video on the Mark IIC+, this time keeping the gain/volume/tone settings constant ala a sweet spot, and simply using the push-pull and GEQ to demonstrate how well this amp changes gears with instruments and styles and little push here and a little pull there - that's what it's all about Would appreciate it if you would give the video a whirl - it's been described as a love letter I wrote to the IIC+, true that

 

[Darkstar2]

Well, since the info came from a some random guy named Marshall, of course he's gonna just say whatever! What would he know about EL34's? LOL

John Marshall is a very respected entity at Mesa -- he's a 6-foot and change giant of a man who subbed in for James Hetfield on 2 tours when James was injured. He's been around Boogie since the 90s. I'd trust him!

 

[spawnofthesith2]

John Marshall is a very respected entity at Mesa -- he's a 6-foot and change giant of a man who subbed in for James Hetfield on 2 tours when James was injured. He's been around Boogie since the 90s. I'd trust him!

Hmm doesn’t fit the narrative going around that Gibson suddenly replaced everyone


Even the much maligned Dinesh was with Mesa for a few years before the buy out m

 

[Doug Doppler]

John Marshall is a very respected entity at Mesa -- he's a 6-foot and change giant of a man who subbed in for James Hetfield on 2 tours when James was injured. He's been around Boogie since the 90s. I'd trust him!

Hey @Darkstar2 - Agreed John is a (gentle) giant who thrashes with the best of them... and KNOWS his stuff. I *think/thought* was making a whole play on words about the name Marshall and EL34s

 

[mace]

John Marshall is a very respected entity at Mesa -- he's a 6-foot and change giant of a man who subbed in for James Hetfield on 2 tours when James was injured. He's been around Boogie since the 90s. I'd trust him!

I'm just messing around of course, man! Just found the name and the company he works for a bit ironic. Like a buddy of mine named Cummins who works for Caterpillar engines.