REISSUE Rumor: Mark IIC+ and 2ch Recto

[Bobby Marshall]

They should have recruited others associated with Boogie back in the IIC+ days to be involved in the release like Steve Lukather and Brad Gillis who are not heavy metal but are skilled musicians and great in front of the camera. That would have been very smart.

 

[Inthenoise]

Can anyone comment on the build quality of the Reissue? Someone over at Rig-Talk is saying the reissue's knobs/pots and sliders feel flimsy/cheap.

I have a Mark IIC DRGX (+modded 6 months after purchase) I bought originally from Mesa, a Mark V 25, and a Mark VII (I sold my Mark V 90 combo). I thought some of the switches and hardware on the Mark VII, especially the footswitch buttons, felt cheesy and a degrade from earlier Mesa products. Their parts sourcing, and perhaps the quality of the products available from their sources, seems to have diminished somewhat. When I compare them to my original Mark, they are a different class of animal. It will be sad if Gibson value engineers Mesa products but don't know if that's the issue.

 

[bandit2013]

OK, Things are a bit miscommunicated in all of the activity with the IIC+ reissue. My conversation with my sales engineer at Sweetwater wrote back to me about EL34. However, how it was worded was odd. Changing to EL34 would void warranty. I can buy that. I believe this says more than it needs to. I did not see the actual dialogue between my sales engineer and the Mesa rep. Please do not harp on Jimmy, he is a good guy and I respect him. If you want to blame someone, blame me: Eric Hokanson. I was only relaying the message that was relayed to the sales rep. Keep reading on, I have some more news regarding this topic below the email message.

The first mentioned use of EL34 in the reissue Mark IIC+ was with the Lark Guitars video. I do not believe he was on his A-Game when he made this video, I believe it was a live feed as it did start early in the morning. Kudos for an attempt without edits. Anyhow about near the end of the video he did an EL34 comparison to an original IIC+DRG with the reissue IIC+. He did point at the reissue and stated STR450 EL34 tubes. Ok. I was a bit stoked on that concept. Cool.

Later on, after @Doug Doppler when he got his hands on the amp to review. Thanks for that video BTW Doug. He did mention yes, the IIC+ reissue can be used with EL34 in the Class A sockets. Still the Sweetwater email had me second guessing everything. It is nobody's fault. Well I did review the manual in what time I had before leaving for work. Did not see any mention of the use of EL34 tubes in the Class A sockets. nothing. Typical Mesa documentation I suppose. So here is where things get interesting.

Voiding of the Warranty, unsure on that. However if you do run a quad of EL34 tubes in the amp, that probably would not work out so well without a bias switch if you run it at 75W.

What I decided to do instead is to ask Mesa directly and I got some interesting information from all of this. In short: Yes you can run EL34 in the Class A sockets but there is a twist to that story. Look at the attached email from Mesa.

I opened up some more dialogue with Mollie from Mesa, more specifically to what NOS tubes would be suitable. I forgot to mention the STR416. My bad. but those probably fit the bill too.

I will add the additional emails to this if you are interested on what Mike B. has to say regarding the plate voltage and current.

So now back to being stoked again. Bummer the wait will be a long one.

 

[bandit2013]

....and I just tracked down a pair of NOS 6ca7s.

I got an update from Mesa. You can run EL34 tubes in the Class A. For some reason the new versions are not supported but the NOS types are per my last post (includes the actual email from Mesa)

 

[Doug Doppler]

OK, Things are a bit miscommunicated in all of the activity with the IIC+ reissue. My conversation with my sales engineer at Sweetwater wrote back to me about EL34. However, how it was worded was odd. Changing to EL34 would void warranty. I can buy that. I believe this says more than it needs to. I did not see the actual dialogue between my sales engineer and the Mesa rep. Please do not harp on Jimmy, he is a good guy and I respect him. If you want to blame someone, blame me: Eric Hokanson. I was only relaying the message that was relayed to the sales rep. Keep reading on, I have some more news regarding this topic below the email message.


View attachment 5504

The first mentioned use of EL34 in the reissue Mark IIC+ was with the Lark Guitars video. I do not believe he was on his A-Game when he made this video, I believe it was a live feed as it did start early in the morning. Kudos for an attempt without edits. Anyhow about near the end of the video he did an EL34 comparison to an original IIC+DRG with the reissue IIC+. He did point at the reissue and stated STR450 EL34 tubes. Ok. I was a bit stoked on that concept. Cool.

Later on, after @Doug Doppler when he got his hands on the amp to review. Thanks for that video BTW Doug. He did mention yes, the IIC+ reissue can be used with EL34 in the Class A sockets. Still the Sweetwater email had me second guessing everything. It is nobody's fault. Well I did review the manual in what time I had before leaving for work. Did not see any mention of the use of EL34 tubes in the Class A sockets. nothing. Typical Mesa documentation I suppose. So here is where things get interesting.

Voiding of the Warranty, unsure on that. However if you do run a quad of EL34 tubes in the amp, that probably would not work out so well without a bias switch if you run it at 75W.

What I decided to do instead is to ask Mesa directly and I got some interesting information from all of this. In short: Yes you can run EL34 in the Class A sockets but there is a twist to that story. Look at the attached email from Mesa.

View attachment 5505

I opened up some more dialogue with Mollie from Mesa, more specifically to what NOS tubes would be suitable. I forgot to mention the STR416. My bad. but those probably fit the bill too.

View attachment 5506


I will add the additional emails to this if you are interested on what Mike B. has to say regarding the plate voltage and current.

So now back to being stoked again. Bummer the wait will be a long one.

REAL TUBE GEEKS LIVE HERE - LOVE THIS @bandit2013 !!!

 

[cgscotto]

Bought some Winged =C= EL34 tubes from mesa a few years ago for my MKIII++. They were $99 a pair. I wonder if they have any more available for purchase? I would like to build up a little stash of them for when my IIC+ arrives.

 

[MaceFremonti]

I got an update from Mesa. You can run EL34 tubes in the Class A. For some reason the new versions are not supported but the NOS types are per my last post (includes the actual email from Mesa)

Nice! Sweetwater just texted me that my reissue is on the way!

 

[bandit2013]

I will add another inquiry to my dialogue with Mesa since I have the channel open. After the comments on use of select EL34 in the Class A sockets. I am still wondering why the Mesa rep informed my Sweetwater sales engineer that use of EL34 would void the warranty. So, I will ask that question with Mollie. I suspect the Mesa rep miss-understood the question thinking a full set of EL34 like you can do with the Mark VII or Mark V as it has a bias switch. So, will the use of EL34 in the Class A sockets void the warranty? I will have to read every line of the manual as my quick review did not pick out any alternate tubes for the power section other than 6L6. While I am at it, I will inquire about the STR416 6CA7 tubes.

 

[SonVolt]

What did Mike B have to say?

 

[Wyzard]

They feel better to me honestly. The old ones like on my mark IV it’s like a constant fight to move them even a little bit. These move with ease and I feel like you can be much more precise. The over all build quality feels good with the amp imo.

Not recognising your characterization of constantly fighting with "old ones" such as my MkIIs, MkIIB Coli, MkIIC+, MkIVB etc - all of which I've used regularly for decades.

Nonetheless, and not downplaying your experience: everyone's mileage will probably vary.

 

[mace]

For those needing an OG to Reissue comparison fix, this video was pretty good with a lot of variety of styles. No settings were listed, at least I didn’t catch it.

He throws in a contest with a blind A/B test, I missed one on the first two sets, The third set I was pretty far off and a monkey could have guessed better than I did. Once in the band mix, these amps sound essentially identical to my ear.

 

[danielpasco]

I gave up in the first round after getting one wrong and having no idea about the next two. From then on I just tried to pick the ones I liked best. Almost all of them were the reissue.

 

[cgscotto]

I got most of them right, mainly because the reissue sounds really close to the IIC+ mode on the VII. As other videos have shown, the reissue has a bit more bass and the OG sounds a bit more aggressive in the midrange and upper frequencies. If I had to choose which one I like better, I would agree with danielpasco that for the most part, I liked the reissue a bit better.

 

[bandit2013]

What did Mike B have to say?

I did not hear back from Mesa on that subject. Last communication I got was Thursday morning. I believe Mesa is closed on Friday.
Since there is that wait, I added in the STR416 6CA7 question and what I got from Sweetwater regarding warranty from their Mesa rep, I want clarification on use of EL34 in Class A sockets about this voiding warranty. Will post the responses if I get more this coming week.

 

[mace]

I got most of them right, mainly because the reissue sounds really close to the IIC+ mode on the VII. As other videos have shown, the reissue has a bit more bass and the OG sounds a bit more aggressive in the midrange and upper frequencies. If I had to choose which one I like better, I would agree with danielpasco that for the most part, I liked the reissue a bit better.

Yeah, I think that describes it for me also. I can’t out it into words but the reissue sounds a bit like the VII. In the old Ola video when he compares the JP2c to VII to IIc+ OG the VII and JP2c sound similar to each other. The OG sounds a bit different to the other two somehow.

 

[IronSean]

Yeah, I think that describes it for me also. I can’t out it into words but the reissue sounds a bit like the VII. In the old Ola video when he compares the JP2c to VII to IIc+ OG the VII and JP2c sound similar to each other. The OG sounds a bit different to the other two somehow.

Probably because the JP-2C is a pentode 60/100w Class AB amp (H models of IIC+), and the Mark VII is pentode as well.

The D models of the IIC+ are simulClass 35/90w with a mix of Class A and Class AB power sections run as Triode.

From the triode/pentode switch on the Mark V, there's a noticable tonal and feel difference there.

 

[Jamme1961]

If you run two outside EL34's they'll be biased colder then the 6l6's - the only problem with the el34 could be crossover distortion. Im not a tech but using el34's should not harm the amp right? My MKIV uses two el34's in the two outside slots - checking the bias on it the el34 run a lot cooler then the 6l6's - im a hack not a tech - just throwing it out there.

I found this on google -
generally speaking, EL34 tubes typically require less bias than 6L6 tubes, meaning they draw less current and therefore need to be set at a lower bias voltage when used in an amplifier designed for either tube type; this is because EL34s have a different internal design that operates with lower current draw compared to 6L6s.

 

[spawnofthesith2]

When my tech was rewiring my export mk IV to Us voltage he was REALLY trying to push a “bias mod” on me. He’s a great tech but I was like, no dude, A. I don’t want to change anything with the tone, and B. Sure I know it’s a quad of 6L6s in there right now, but if I did want to ever mix and match that impacts things, which did make him back off finally lol

 

[Jamme1961]

When my tech was rewiring my export mk IV to Us voltage he was REALLY trying to push a “bias mod” on me. He’s a great tech but I was like, no dude, A. I don’t want to change anything with the tone, and B. Sure I know it’s a quad of 6L6s in there right now, but if I did want to ever mix and match that impacts things, which did make him back off finally lol

Yea I’m in Nj - my tech can’t handle working on Mesa - he tried to put a bias pot in my Mark and screwed it up - he is a well known amp builder too - Mike B has my amp

 

[SonVolt]

We have a really good tech in town that's been working on tube amps since Vietnam. He has a "No Stairway Mesa" sign in his shop.