Rectoverb 25 Combo vs Roadster Combo

[YellowJacket]

Hey, that's a pretty huge improvement.

I have a question: Have you tried editing the velocities for the drum samples? Generally, if you edit the midi reel you can edit CC data under the reel, at least in cubase. If you select 'velocity', you can adjust the attack of samples. i.e. higher velocity values make it sounds like the drums are being played harder vs lower velocity values which make it sound like the drums are being played quieter. Usually, sound libraries have multiple samples for each sound or pitch to accommodate this functionality. Adjusting the velocity values slightly with a ride will make it sound less mechanical. Hard cymbal, bass, and snare hits make it more intense. You can even remove quantising once you are done with the drum track and move the bass and snare just a hair late to make the drums sound bigger.

I think if you monkey around with these values, you can have the drums sound less vanilla.

Which drum library are you currently using? Which version of Logic do you have? My brother claims that Logic has some pretty decent drum samples built in and that if you edit the parameters, you can get some great sounds out of it.

And, make it your business to practice rhythm guitar and technique with a metronome. You'll notice a HUGE difference! Personally, I like to set yearly practice goals. Last year was the year of the alternate pick. This year I'm going to learn all my harmonic minor scale shapes and I'm going to learn sequences. I had worked on them before a bit but I want them to be second nature so I can improve at my passage work. Generally, intervalic and scalar sequences work best for this.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Hey, that's a pretty huge improvement.

I have a question: Have you tried editing the velocities for the drum samples? Generally, if you edit the midi reel you can edit CC data under the reel, at least in cubase. If you select 'velocity', you can adjust the attack of samples. i.e. higher velocity values make it sounds like the drums are being played harder vs lower velocity values which make it sound like the drums are being played quieter. Usually, sound libraries have multiple samples for each sound or pitch to accommodate this functionality. Adjusting the velocity values slightly with a ride will make it sound less mechanical. Hard cymbal, bass, and snare hits make it more intense. You can even remove quantising once you are done with the drum track and move the bass and snare just a hair late to make the drums sound bigger.

I think if you monkey around with these values, you can have the drums sound less vanilla.

I started with the drums way to hot and I may have taken it too far the other way. The score has been humanized with some manual editing for emphasis, but it's under done at the point. For instance, the entire 6/4 - triplet feel to the first half of the song has been lost. In the past I've visually gone over each part in my head and adjusted it to the way I could actually play it, but this time around I haven't reached that level of detail.

There's velocity tools, but due to the way I made the drum score I don't seem to be able to use them effectively. For example, with the verse I created a 1 or 2 bar sequence, copy/pasted it for the rest of the verse, then went back and edited fills and kick beats. What I can do is use the tools to visually ramp & edit each 1-2 bar sequence, but I can't edit or see the entire section/song. If I could see a whole section/song I could easily create more piano/forte effect, then move to the section/bar level to create drive and groove, but right now it's like editing in the dark, which has me down to manually editing individual midi events without a good awareness of what's going on around me.

I wonder if there's a way to merge the individual sequences into a master sequence?

Which drum library are you currently using? Which version of Logic do you have? My brother claims that Logic has some pretty decent drum samples built in and that if you edit the parameters, you can get some great sounds out of it.

EZ Drummer and Logic Pro 9. EZ Drummer functions as a plug in. I have sample libraries for a few different rock and metal kits, with some limited ability to change out individual pieces. Within the vanilla rock drum it comes with I can choose between a few different crashes/rides, can switch between a 20" or 22" kick with options for damped, undamped and felt vs plastic beater. There's a few differs snares, and two different high hats, and I think two different tom sets. The metal drums are Meshuggah... i used those on that track I did years ago. I thought they'd be a bit to modern for this track, but it's easy to switch kits out....

In EZ Drummer the adjust by velocity and it has its own humanize feature within the plugin, so the snare isn't always a perfect hit and whatnot.

From the little bit I've found Logic has good native drum tools, but most of what I've read is by people editing hip-hop tracks.

And, make it your business to practice rhythm guitar and technique with a metronome. You'll notice a HUGE difference! Personally, I like to set yearly practice goals. Last year was the year of the alternate pick. This year I'm going to learn all my harmonic minor scale shapes and I'm going to learn sequences. I had worked on them before a bit but I want them to be second nature so I can improve at my passage work. Generally, intervalic and scalar sequences work best for this.

[/quote]

I've done metronome in the past, but you're right and it's been too long. Part of it was also me being stupid. I was watching DAW for a visual reference on song changes instead of counting time. I'm at the point now where I'm much more in the pocket, and I'm understanding Logic's workflow much better so everything is less tedious, but I'm not going to re-record anything until the drums are sorted. Once that is done I'll redo the bass since it'll probably become unglued to a more driving drum groove, then guitars. Guitar tones will also change since it's no longer a demo/comparison, and I've moved one of the riffs up the neck so I can use bigger strings.

I'll probably only post one more edit, to get an opinion on the drums before redoing everything else, then I'll present the final product.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Original Drums
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/37532735/Forum%20Stuff/Scupa%20Drums%20Old.mp3

New Drums
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/37532735/Forum%20Stuff/Scupa%20Drums%20New.mp3

 

[YellowJacket]

How are things going here? Any progress?

 

[screamingdaisy]

Not yet. Too busy to do it right. I'm not rushing this time through.

 

[YellowJacket]

How is it going around here!? I have some comments and some feedback as things have been moving around here. I've been learning to mix better under duress i.e. because freelancing as a composer requires it. So I have some new feedback and tips RE: mixing drums. Also, some more comments on my Recto and I think I'm digging it again!

OK, recording: Micing and mic placement is always personal preference of course. Something I tried that I liked was using the SM57 closer to the centre of the cone to capture the high end bite. Then using another mic to capture the mids. I have a fairly good condenser that is a copy of a U47. I found that the combination of the two mics was closer to the room sound.

EQ for guitars: High pass and low pass filters to taste. I double track right and left but I've heard of guys getting exceptional tones quad tracking with multiple mic placements and multiple amps.
With the lows and low mids, you gotta find the sweet spot where the high bass still punches on the guitar but you make the tone skinnier so it fits in the mix.

Then, for bass, I found it useful to notch out a bit around 500hz just to cut the mud. I mean this really all depends on taste and if you want to hear more or less bass and if you are interested in the higher frequencies. I've been working with VSTs but I suspect with a recorded bass, some compression may be necessary depending on what you want to achieve. With this one mix I did, I was jamming in a guitar rhythm track, bass guitar, drums, horns, trumpet, tuba, and full strings. VLN1, 2, VLA, Cello, DB. So I ended up being quite aggressive with the subtractive EQing really only leaving absolutely necessary frequencies. So, if you want to hear the guitars more and less bass, you can low pass the bass but then you'll have a very dark and more ambient sort of a fat tone. If you want that P-Bass ring, you'll likely need to consider a different solution.

I ended up doing a VERY skinny guitar tone with the emphasis around 3k since that is where the guitar tone 'popped' the best. The result is that it isn't as thick or gnarly sounding but I don't want it to distract from the orchestral sounds. There is a HUGE gap between the guitar and the low frequency dominant bass tone but there is plenty of stuff to shove into that gap in my case.

Generally, leaving the bass kick and Bass guitar exclusively in the low end gives a lively and punchy mix.

For synth drums, I discovered something really interesting. I was talking to my friend and he said to put some compression on a synth kit. Once you massage the velocities to get the tone you want, the compressor will bring it forward. I also like to low and high shelf the drums a bit depending on what I want to hear. I also hear there are certain frequencies that should be boosted with drums. Sweeping a notch filter and listening to where the individual sounds pop is very helpful.

Making sure the drums are out front in the mix is essential to having a pile of heaviness and energy in the mix.

https://soundcloud.com/paul-levasseur-2/battle-theme-cue-test2
This is the mix here that I did. Obviously I'd give more of a frequency band to the guitar in a more guitar focused mix but I had to do what I could with what I had.


RE: Recto.

I replaced my old, worn Tung Sol 12ax7 in V1 with a new one and the Recto came alive.

I also have a Protone Bulb Deluxe OD. I don't really Djent but I had this guy's signature BKP in a guitar and I absolutely love how responsive and musical they are.

I hadn't really got on with the pedal but I was using it the way people say; drive off and clean boost. Turn the tone up.

Well, somehow the tone was almost off, volume at half, and the drive was at half. It just worked. The 'attack switch' gave a clear, tight, aggressive tone with very low noise. VERY transparent too, I might add. Like an extension of the amp. With the 'Attack Switch' off, it was a very thick and warm sound with a lot of compression. Not really suitable for rhythm playing but it's a great live sound for solos. It had the compression necessary for playing quickly and using extended techniques such as tapping. And, the fresh tube gave a very convincing clean tone.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Traded the Mark V in on a guitar.

Now I can start a nü-metal band. :lol:

Did some more trading. Got another PRS out of the deal.

 

[Daxman73]

WOW! :shock: Those are two fine specimens right there. I am drooling, nice additions man. How does that 245 sound?

 

[screamingdaisy]

WOW! :shock: Those are two fine specimens right there. I am drooling, nice additions man. How does that 245 sound?

Bright, with a lot of midrange. It's well suited to aggressive riffing, loves overdrive, screams when soloing and makes my Wah sound incredible.

 

[Daxman73]

That's sweet man. I've always wanted a Single cut. Does it have the 58/08's in it? My custom 22 was nice, but I like the thicker bodies on the SC's and that one piece bridge is nice.

 

[screamingdaisy]

58/15s.

I alternate between really liking them and wishing the bridge was hotter, depending on the song.

I'm planning on putting a PRS \m/ in the bridge.

 

[LithiumZero]

I'm curious about the \m/ pickup too. I just swapped the 57/08 in my Studio 22 for a tremonti and it's fantastic. I almost went with the \m/. Let us know what you think after the swap. I was pleasantly surprised at how well the tremonti sounds clean and how well it splits for such a hot pickup.

 

[Daxman73]

I'm curious as well. I have an HFS in my 87 Charvel and it sounds fantastic.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Still wheeling and dealing. Got the amp about a week ago. Super happy with the decision.

Whole rig can be carried in one trip. Planning on getting a double gig bag to make it even easier.

 

[dlpasco]

Looks like a nice setup!

 

[SamuelJ86]

So fresh and so clean! 8)

 

[screamingdaisy]

I'm really liking the Rectoverb 25. Going in I kind of thought the Mini-Rectos would sound like a smaller/weaker version of the 100w versions, but IMO they are the real deal. Even through the combo the amp is punchy and percussive, and which is further reinforced when put through a closed back Recto cab. Further, there's something really raw sounding in the midrange that I really dig, and for some reason it sounds really open, which I suspect has something to do with the effects loop design.

The Fillmore 75 speaker sounds f*cking outstanding. It leans in the vintage direction and has more going on in the top end than the Vintage 30s in my other Mesa cabs but it's not at all harsh, just harmonically interesting. It's kind of like a Greenback and V30 mixed together, although I don't know if that's a good description. Sometimes's it's hard to put sound into words and do it justice.

The cab is great. I expected it to sound boxy and congested, but it sounds very good. I picked the combo over the head in part because the cab gives the midrange a raunchy, old school character whereas the Mini-Recto cabs were more modern and had the "Recto" sound. Past a certain point on the volume knobs the speaker gets a little wild and switching to a closed back cab brings things back under control, but that wildness is part of what I dig about this combo. The combo and a closed back Mini-Recto cab compliment each other very well.

In the past I used to feel very constrained by only having two channels since I do a lot of in-between stuff and being limited to the choice of either clean or high gain was pretty extreme, but since getting the Tone Burst and Grid Slammer I've started to only use two channels on my Roadster and using the pedals to get push the amp for different flavours of rhythm/lead. As I became more comfortable using pedals the Roadster's other two channels started to feel a bit redundant. This has made the transition from the Roadster to the Rectoverb a lot easier.

Lastly, I'm really digging the headroom on this amp. I've been running my Rectos with the variac on for years now to give the amps a bit more compression, but that can cause them to get a little dark as the volume goes up and the transients are rounded off. This amp doesn't really have that issue as it's already naturally a bit more compressed but doesn't loose it's top end as the volume goes up.

I'm seriously considering adding a second Rectoverb combo so that I can run either stereo or wet/dry.

 

[dlpasco]

That's excellent. I recently let my own recto 25 combo go in favor of my mark v 25 head and 1x12. Having a second 25 watt amp felt like overkill since I'm not planning on running in stereo at rehearsals or gigs, and the V:25 can be used by itself through the PA without a cab as well.

I really decided that I could let it go after getting my Throttlebox, with pushes the V:25 comfortable into recto territory.

That said, the rectoverb 25 was excellent.

I love hearing about your gear explorations - huge amount of insights and information. Thank you for sharing.

 

[afu]

I love hearing about your gear explorations - huge amount of insights and information. Thank you for sharing.

I agree.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Thanks.

The more I play it, the more I dig this amp. I've had it for two weeks, the majority of which I forced myself to use the combo speaker alone just to get a feel for it. It sounds great, but today I started running both the combo speaker and a Recto 2x12 simultaneously and it's really hitting the spot for me. The combo's mids are great, and the Recto cab fills in the highs/lows around it.

The one of the things I dig about this amp is how good it feels to play through. My Dual's have to be fairly loud before they open up and start doing their thing, this amp does it at a fairly moderate volume.