Rectifier with Marshall cab
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groovebelly
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aren't the V30s more mid heavy than the GT75s?
A lot of the sound has to do with the construction of the cab, ai, denser wood, bigger space in the cab EX. marshalls are 29in H' and recto standards are 31 H'... So, the build and space in the cab makes a lot of difference in the sound. a stilleto cab will sound more mid heavy because it is 29in H' compared to 31in H' of the standard recto cab... well, this is how my stilleto cab and standard recto cab sound compared to each other.
94Tremoverb
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My Tremoverb has never sounded better than when I ran it through an old Marshall 1960B cab with G12M-25 Greenbacks, so I would expect the 1960AC or BC reissue cab to sound pretty good too. I've also heard a Rev G 2-channel sound fantastic through a modern Marshall 1960AV cab (with V30s) - I think both of these had more 'character' than the Mesa cabs I've heard, which are very well built but maybe sound a bit *over* built and tight, the Marshalls seem to sound more vibrant. But the stock Marshall 1960 with G12T-75s... no. Too scooped and hollow-sounding IMO - even for Marshalls, which have more upper-mid than a Rectifier.
i run my mesa roadster through an old marshall 4x12 called 1982, but i changed the original G12H30 speaker to a mix of G12T75 and V30s. the cab was build in 1979 - i love this old marshall cabs.
my dual recto runs through a JCM800 Bass-1935A, but i also changed the speakers. the G65s had to go and i put in the same T75+V30s mix as i use with the other cab.
to my ears, the old marshall cabs match perfectly with the mesa heads. but i depends on the sound you are looking for.
and this is how it looks like:
my dual recto runs through a JCM800 Bass-1935A, but i also changed the speakers. the G65s had to go and i put in the same T75+V30s mix as i use with the other cab.
to my ears, the old marshall cabs match perfectly with the mesa heads. but i depends on the sound you are looking for.
and this is how it looks like:
KH Guitar Freak
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If you are talking about current production Marshall cabs, I would at least try and get the handwired cabs, or else just stick with Mesa cabs IMO...
joe web said:i run my mesa roadster through an old marshall 4x12 called 1982, but i changed the original G12H30 speaker to a mix of G12T75 and V30s. the cab was build in 1979 - i love this old marshall cabs.
my dual recto runs through a JCM800 Bass-1935A, but i also changed the speakers. the G65s had to go and i put in the same T75+V30s mix as i use with the other cab.
to my ears, the old marshall cabs match perfectly with the mesa heads. but i depends on the sound you are looking for.
and this is how it looks like:
YellowJacket
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All cabs sound different. Mesa cabs are built like bricks and are seriously that heavy.
-The Rectocab is oversized so it tends to be bassy with an enhanced treble response. In my personal opinion they sound muddy and swishy, like the bottom of a boat.
-The Stiletto cab is the same size as the Marshall 4 x 12s so it emphasizes the midrange more. It has tamer highs and tighter lows as well. The Stiletto cab is tighter than the Marshall 1960vintage (also stock equipped with v30s) and it thumps way more. Aside from a slight tonal difference due to the build and materials, the tones are very comparable. The Mesa is maybe a hair louder because of the greater efficiency of the cab design.
-The Marshall 1960a has Celestion G12T-75 speakers stock. These suckers have much more scooped mids with what sounds like scratchy or more pronounced highs. They also have much more speaker breakup than v30s, which are much tighter speakers. I wouldn't call them 'heavier'. They can simply handle much more gain because the cone doesn't distort as much. The G12T-75s, by comparison, sound more distorted at lower levels of gain saturation since the speakers add distortion to the tone. They are also less efficient at 97db / watt / metre so you can crank your amp up a bit more. Definitely still a loud cab and great for metal / rock / etc.
-The Marshall 1960ax cab has greenbacks in it and is only a 100watt cab. It is best to run 2 of these for super loud shows since the low end can lose definition very quickly. These suckers distort at fairly low volumes and sound really woody or creamy. They do a great blues tone and also a sweet rock tone as well. The one instance I heard of someone using these for metal, he was using them as a fullstack to maintain clarity, low end tightness, and also to get lots of low end thump. These speakers are also 97db/watt/metre so they also allow you to crank up your amp a bit more and they are still sufficiently loud. If you don't have a fullstack, you can always run one of these with your amp set at 50watts. With a Dual, you simply pull out one rectifier and one matched pair of Power Tubes. Either the outside or the inside ones, since they operate on a push pull circuit with one another. So _ X X _ or X _ _ X. When choosing to run this configuration, the output of the amp changes so the value of the speaker outputs change as well. 4 ohm connection goes to an 8 ohm cab, 8 ohm connection to a 16 ohm cab, and 16 ohm connection to a 32 ohm cab. Divide the impedance of your cabs by half when running this way and everything should work fine!
-The Rectocab is oversized so it tends to be bassy with an enhanced treble response. In my personal opinion they sound muddy and swishy, like the bottom of a boat.
-The Stiletto cab is the same size as the Marshall 4 x 12s so it emphasizes the midrange more. It has tamer highs and tighter lows as well. The Stiletto cab is tighter than the Marshall 1960vintage (also stock equipped with v30s) and it thumps way more. Aside from a slight tonal difference due to the build and materials, the tones are very comparable. The Mesa is maybe a hair louder because of the greater efficiency of the cab design.
-The Marshall 1960a has Celestion G12T-75 speakers stock. These suckers have much more scooped mids with what sounds like scratchy or more pronounced highs. They also have much more speaker breakup than v30s, which are much tighter speakers. I wouldn't call them 'heavier'. They can simply handle much more gain because the cone doesn't distort as much. The G12T-75s, by comparison, sound more distorted at lower levels of gain saturation since the speakers add distortion to the tone. They are also less efficient at 97db / watt / metre so you can crank your amp up a bit more. Definitely still a loud cab and great for metal / rock / etc.
-The Marshall 1960ax cab has greenbacks in it and is only a 100watt cab. It is best to run 2 of these for super loud shows since the low end can lose definition very quickly. These suckers distort at fairly low volumes and sound really woody or creamy. They do a great blues tone and also a sweet rock tone as well. The one instance I heard of someone using these for metal, he was using them as a fullstack to maintain clarity, low end tightness, and also to get lots of low end thump. These speakers are also 97db/watt/metre so they also allow you to crank up your amp a bit more and they are still sufficiently loud. If you don't have a fullstack, you can always run one of these with your amp set at 50watts. With a Dual, you simply pull out one rectifier and one matched pair of Power Tubes. Either the outside or the inside ones, since they operate on a push pull circuit with one another. So _ X X _ or X _ _ X. When choosing to run this configuration, the output of the amp changes so the value of the speaker outputs change as well. 4 ohm connection goes to an 8 ohm cab, 8 ohm connection to a 16 ohm cab, and 16 ohm connection to a 32 ohm cab. Divide the impedance of your cabs by half when running this way and everything should work fine!
Heritage Softail
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+1 on the old Marshall 4x12 cabs. Love that sound. Maybe it is more of the sound my ears are used to?
MBMusicMan
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I used to have a 1960 a with a Dual Rectifier. I lost the thunderousness of the Dual and a bit of body. It wasn't less or more mid, but it was is a different place, much brighter. The Recto 412 is a bit darker, fuller, more satisfying. It's also much more direct, and gave me the Boogie sound. My Dual Rectifier wasn't a Dual Rectifier until I got the proper cab. The MArshall worked better with my 6505+, it's a bit more 'modern' sounding.
MBMusicMan
Active member
I used to have a 1960 a with a Dual Rectifier. I lost the thunderousness of the Dual and a bit of body. It wasn't less or more mid, but it was is a different place, much brighter. The Recto 412 is a bit darker, fuller, more satisfying. It's also much more direct, and gave me the Boogie sound. My Dual Rectifier wasn't a Dual Rectifier until I got the proper cab. The MArshall worked better with my 6505+, it's a bit more 'modern' sounding.
JCDenton6
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MBMusicMan said:
That's exactly what I thought running a dual recto through my Marshall MF400 cab (oversized like the recto cab,loaded with celestion GK12-100s), it didn't sound like a recto and became very boomy and muddy/flubby with the bass at 0 no less. I immediately plugged it back into the recto cab, happiness :mrgreen:
94Tremoverb
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I hope this doesn't hurt too much since you own it, but that MF400 cab is total garbage. I've only tried one once but it sounded exactly like you describe - boomy and with no definition - it's like they've made it oversized for that reason alone because they've heard that other companies do oversized cabs, without paying any attention to how it sounds... on the other hand, since it's designed to go with the Mode Four which is probably the worst amp they've ever made (it's nothing more than a giant AVT, with the same lack of tone and reliability), maybe it's not surprising. Sorry to be harsh but I wouldn't use one of these amps if I was given it for free, I've seen enough dead ones - and refused to work on them, because they cannot be made good... send back to Marshall, it's their problem.
The old Marshall cabs are a different thing entirely, don't judge them on the sound of that thing. Even the modern standard-size 4x12"s aren't too bad, although I think that 4/16-ohm mono/stereo switching panel is a blown transformer waiting to happen and actually sucks tone too... the current has to pass through up to 4 jack switch contacts and 4 switch contacts any one of which can go bad and break the signal path, plus PCB traces and multiple push connectors. It's far better to remove the whole PCB and rewire the cab (for 16 ohms or 4 ohms depending on what you need) with two standard jacks, and all-soldered connections. The stock wiring is OK, it's not as flimsy as it looks - it's just the plastic outer covering which is very thin. Just cut off the push-connectors and solder everything properly. You may be surprised how much difference it makes.
The old Marshall cabs are a different thing entirely, don't judge them on the sound of that thing. Even the modern standard-size 4x12"s aren't too bad, although I think that 4/16-ohm mono/stereo switching panel is a blown transformer waiting to happen and actually sucks tone too... the current has to pass through up to 4 jack switch contacts and 4 switch contacts any one of which can go bad and break the signal path, plus PCB traces and multiple push connectors. It's far better to remove the whole PCB and rewire the cab (for 16 ohms or 4 ohms depending on what you need) with two standard jacks, and all-soldered connections. The stock wiring is OK, it's not as flimsy as it looks - it's just the plastic outer covering which is very thin. Just cut off the push-connectors and solder everything properly. You may be surprised how much difference it makes.
JCDenton6
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Yeah, I hear you on that. I actually just got rid of the MF400 (gotta update the profile) as it was collecting dust. Got $400 for it :mrgreen:
I was originally running a Peavey XXX through it (old head), sounded ok but I wonder how it would've sounded through the recto cab...
I was originally running a Peavey XXX through it (old head), sounded ok but I wonder how it would've sounded through the recto cab...
Resonant Alien
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Dual Rectifier + Stiletto 4x12 = 
I didn't like the Recto through the standard Rectifier cab, FWIW.
Haven't tried a Marshall, but I would imagine the Marshall and Stiletto cabs are going to be more similar than Marshall and Rectifier, based on cab size alone.
Why does your buddy want to get a Marshall cab? If he has only heard the Rectifier cabs and has not played through a Stiletto cab, he should really check it out - totally different tones to my ears.
I didn't like the Recto through the standard Rectifier cab, FWIW.
Haven't tried a Marshall, but I would imagine the Marshall and Stiletto cabs are going to be more similar than Marshall and Rectifier, based on cab size alone.
Why does your buddy want to get a Marshall cab? If he has only heard the Rectifier cabs and has not played through a Stiletto cab, he should really check it out - totally different tones to my ears.
screamingdaisy
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The Recto 4x12 imparts the "Recto sag" onto any amp I plugged into it.
Now that I sold it and bought an Orange cab even my Recto doesn't have "Recto sag" any more.
In fairness, the Recto 4x12s do sound good. That 'sag' makes them sound huge for riff work, it's just hard to pull away from that saggy nu-metal Recto sound. I like to use my Recto for more of a dark hard rock sound, and for my purposes a tighter, punchier V30 loaded cab works great.
I have been running a V30/G12T mix for awhile and although it sounds good I'm getting tired of it (getting tired of the G12T's top end). In the G12T's defence they will actually break up in a very chunky manner (which is pretty cool), and they have more bottom end than a V30 (which means you can dial the bass back on your Recto). They also smooth out the V30s mid spike while the V30 fills in the G12Ts giant hole in the midrange.
Now that I sold it and bought an Orange cab even my Recto doesn't have "Recto sag" any more.
In fairness, the Recto 4x12s do sound good. That 'sag' makes them sound huge for riff work, it's just hard to pull away from that saggy nu-metal Recto sound. I like to use my Recto for more of a dark hard rock sound, and for my purposes a tighter, punchier V30 loaded cab works great.
I have been running a V30/G12T mix for awhile and although it sounds good I'm getting tired of it (getting tired of the G12T's top end). In the G12T's defence they will actually break up in a very chunky manner (which is pretty cool), and they have more bottom end than a V30 (which means you can dial the bass back on your Recto). They also smooth out the V30s mid spike while the V30 fills in the G12Ts giant hole in the midrange.
Resonant Alien
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Yes, I should clarify - I'm not a nu-metal player, and that's prolly why I like the Stiletto cab much better. I think the Recto with the Stiletto cab is much more versatile than the Recto with the Recto cab. I can dial in just about any tone i want from clean to crunch to old school hair to modern metal. And that is what I was after - maximum versatility. If you're primarily a metal player, then I could see the Recto cab being a better choice.
But, being that his buddy is wanting a Marshall cab, I'm assuming that he probably is not looking for that Recto cab-style tone.
But, being that his buddy is wanting a Marshall cab, I'm assuming that he probably is not looking for that Recto cab-style tone.
siggy14
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Just keep in mind, when Mic'd, oversize and traditional will make much less of an impact, 95% of the tone is coming directly from the speaker, so a V30 will sound like a V30. Of course this is if you are using a very one directional mic, like the standard SM57. Now i you are micing the whole cabinet and not so much the speaker that will change the overall sound depending on cab.
Where I find oversized vs traditional comparison is in non mic'd places or playing at home.
Where I find oversized vs traditional comparison is in non mic'd places or playing at home.
