question about the drive channel

[BoogieDown]

So, I've finally settled in on some eq settings that work for my guitars and I've been messing with the gain levels. What I can't figure out is exactly how the gain knobs interact. Obviously, they flow into one another but I can't figure out if there's a tonal difference between setting the Drive at 12 oclock and the Gain at 9 oclock and reversing the settings. Would the gain and compression level be the same either way or are there actually different tones from all configurations? I think it does matter which pot is set higher but I'm not sure. I might just be kidding myself.

 

[lonestarpaul]

...sure it matters and in my opinion the tonal differences are pretty noticeable.
In my experience I found out that keeping the "Gain" knob higher than the "Drive" one (just like MESA suggests in the LS manual) will favour the hi-end frequencies making the sound a little harsh at some point; that's why right now I'm trying to keep the "Gain" knob at 11:00 while "Drive" is set to 2:00 (+ toggle on "Thicker")...gotta try it a little more, but I like it so far :wink:

 

[BoogieDown]

ahhh, cool so its not just me. Self-delusion and the tone quest unfortunately like to hang out together. Never can be too careful.

 

[lonestarpaul]

ahhh, cool so its not just me. Self-delusion and the tone quest unfortunately like to hang out together. Never can be too careful.

eheheh definitely you're not alone on this! :mrgreen:
Well, I think that tone quest can be really frustrating if you take it in the wrong way but also a great chance to experiment, learn and if you're lucky even find something unique. Talking about the Lonestar, the path is not that easy for at least a couple of reasons imho: first of all it requires time and patience to find what you're looking for; besides I think this is a "strange" amp in its own way.

I mean, you have the CH1 which is killer sounding, no question; you can get amazing clean tones and also a little crunch if you push the gain up, just to make things "crispy" if you like a natural and dynamic clipping when you play harder.
Then you have this CH2 which cannot be really considered as an higher-gained CH1 version, unless you make the Reeder mod (which not everyone likes, especially on heavier tones). So if you push it hard to use it as a "hi-gain" rhytm tone, you've to pay attention and tweak it right otherwise you can get muddy, harsh or dark sound.

In my opinion is not that easy to find the right spot for CH2, especially if you need a variety of distorted tones...for example I need to go from almost clean tones to heavy ones with a few "in between steps", something I can't obviously cover with the amp alone. So I mainly use stompboxes on CH1 which sound amazing even when pushed hard...but then I have this CH2 and sometimes I don't really know what to do with it, so it often stays unused which is a shame considering the overall value and tone of the amp itself. Sometimes I feel like I'm not really making the most of my amp, but on the other side I have to consider my needs first.

As I told before, you're not alone on this road man...

 

[pauljohnson]

I have a Lonestar Classic v2 2x12 combo and I am in exactly the same boat!!

I have found MY TONE on CH 1. Low gain (11.00), low mids (virtually off), but breaks up nicley when pushes from the front with either the mid boost on my guitar (Clapton Strat) or my Xotic RC Booster (set as a treble booster.) (It is a great blues tone. Think Matt Schofield's Two Rock tone.)

The problem is that I don't know what I want from CH 2! :roll: I think I should be looking for a mildly distorted tone, and pushing it for my rock lead tone. But, I am struggling to find anything useful. I mean whatever I set it at, I get a good tone, but I don't get a GREAT tone.

I sometimes think I'd be better off with just a single channel amp and bunch of pedals.
I play mainly blues, but the band likes to throw in the odd rock/pop cover.

I have actually found myself looking round at other amps online :shock:

I wish I could just find MY TONE on CH 2 as well, because I love everything about the Lonestar (apart from the weight!)

 

[boogiemon]

i've been playing w/my LSC 1x12 (reeder mod #1) for a while now & have recently discovered something new. i used to set the drive knob to ~2:30 and vary the gain control for the amount of gain i wanted. While this worked well (& still does) for low-volume playing, i found that cranked up to band level, ch2 was way too dark & sounded pretty bad. Bringing up the drive & lowering the gain however has the wonderful effect of brightening up ch2, adding treble, presence & even some "fizz" reminiscent of a recto. The low end is still a little loose but w/the mini switch set to "thicker" and both the drive & gain set pretty high, i can get a level of gain that sounds pretty close to my Mark III, honestly. (if that's no frame of reference for you, go check out some clips on youtube: the M3 is a ferocious amp) This btw is w/just a telecaster, no EMG's or "destroyer"-type pickups. Anyway, the lesson here (for me anyway) is that the preamp needs to be set differently depending on how loud the power amp is.

good luck

I have a Lonestar Classic v2 2x12 combo and I am in exactly the same boat!!

I have found MY TONE on CH 1. Low gain (11.00), low mids (virtually off), but breaks up nicley when pushes from the front with either the mid boost on my guitar (Clapton Strat) or my Xotic RC Booster (set as a treble booster.) (It is a great blues tone. Think Matt Schofield's Two Rock tone.)

The problem is that I don't know what I want from CH 2! :roll: I think I should be looking for a mildly distorted tone, and pushing it for my rock lead tone. But, I am struggling to find anything useful. I mean whatever I set it at, I get a good tone, but I don't get a GREAT tone.

I sometimes think I'd be better off with just a single channel amp and bunch of pedals.
I play mainly blues, but the band likes to throw in the odd rock/pop cover.

I have actually found myself looking round at other amps online :shock:

I wish I could just find MY TONE on CH 2 as well, because I love everything about the Lonestar (apart from the weight!)

 

[lonestarpaul]

I have a Lonestar Classic v2 2x12 combo and I am in exactly the same boat!!

...cool, another passenger of the same boat!!! :lol:

I have found MY TONE on CH 1. Low gain (11.00), low mids (virtually off), but breaks up nicley when pushes from the front with either the mid boost on my guitar (Clapton Strat) or my Xotic RC Booster (set as a treble booster.) (It is a great blues tone. Think Matt Schofield's Two Rock tone.)

The problem is that I don't know what I want from CH 2! :roll: I think I should be looking for a mildly distorted tone, and pushing it for my rock lead tone. But, I am struggling to find anything useful. I mean whatever I set it at, I get a good tone, but I don't get a GREAT tone.

I sometimes think I'd be better off with just a single channel amp and bunch of pedals.
I play mainly blues, but the band likes to throw in the odd rock/pop cover.

Even if I play a different genre (rock/alt.rock), I completely understand your troubles...in fact I'm using it mostly as a single channel amp with pedals right now. Sure a lot of guys round here would consider it as an heresy or something (and they would probably right!!!), but that's the easiest way to suit my needs so far.

I have actually found myself looking round at other amps online :shock:

...me too, but even if I'll have the chance to try something more useful to my needs (for ex. a 4 channel amp would work pretty good to cover all the tones I need without pedals), I don't think I'm gonna sell the Lonestar...it's an amazing amp and sounds so **** good, especially on the 1st channel.[/quote]

Good luck for your quest! :wink:

 

[djw]

i've been playing w/my LSC 1x12 (reeder mod #1) for a while now & have recently discovered something new. i used to set the drive knob to ~2:30 and vary the gain control for the amount of gain i wanted. While this worked well (& still does) for low-volume playing, i found that cranked up to band level, ch2 was way too dark & sounded pretty bad. Bringing up the drive & lowering the gain however has the wonderful effect of brightening up ch2, adding treble, presence & even some "fizz" reminiscent of a recto. The low end is still a little loose but w/the mini switch set to "thicker" and both the drive & gain set pretty high, i can get a level of gain that sounds pretty close to my Mark III, honestly. (if that's no frame of reference for you, go check out some clips on youtube: the M3 is a ferocious amp) This btw is w/just a telecaster, no EMG's or "destroyer"-type pickups. Anyway, the lesson here (for me anyway) is that the preamp needs to be set differently depending on how loud the power amp is.

Wise words.

A lot depends on your volume -- really, all amps are like this. Among the more ephemeral factors like how hard the power stage is working relative to the preamp, tube characteristics, etc., is the simple fact that you're physically pushing a speaker that's mounted to the inside of this heavy wooden box. Get it up to a certain level, and things change. Whenever I am fortunate enough to be able to run my LSC through my Marshall 4x12, it becomes a totally different beast. Emphasis on the word beast.

Regarding Gain/Drive ratio: definitely interactive, definitely setting-sensitive. These days I actually try to keep both of these at about the same level, with gain just slightly higher, and adjust them both up and down; seems to keep a balance of girth and brightness that I like. Most of the time they're at about 2:00-2:15. One other thing: in my case, when I did the pot-swap Reeder mod the differences in how these two knobs interact became a lot more noticeable, as did the Normal/Thick/Thicker settings.

Another thing: It might depend on the tubes you have in there, but I find that I am surprised at how much sustain and drive I get out of Ch2 -- without very much compression. This is great because the tone is still really, really punchy and has lots of dynamics and snap; so I'm surprised when I hold a note and it... just keeps on going. I'm used to there being more of a tradeoff between dynamics and sustain. That much sustain usually comes with a whole lot of fizzy crud all over the tone.

Perhaps because of this, I've really embraced Ch2 as a lead platform. The complex harmonics and fullness I get from Ch2 are way more appealing to me than any pedal I've found, though I'll kick in with a boost for more violin-like stuff. But not as often as I used to.

One other thing: I've had my eye on the Drive-control footswitch mod idea, but for now I'm really happy dialing in lead-amounts of of OD on Ch2 and rolling back the gain for rhythm with my guitar's volume control. That way I have my expansive lead-harmonic spread, I get infinite gradations of drive for rhythm, they sound *really* good all the way up and down the dial, and it's literally at my fingertips.

 

[Leroy the Massochist]

Check out my suggestions under Mystery of Channel 2. If you are unhappy with Channel 2 it may not be running loud enough. Turn the wattage down. When you do this you may need to back off the gain a bit (I run gain and drive at around 10 oclock) and engage the thick or thicker switch. Get that Master up above 12 and the volume around /above 12. This is way beyond bedroom volume but in a band setting you will NOT have mud. You will probably have to reduce your treble and presence. Your bass will also become more bouncy and quad boxy feel.

Regards

 

[lostcause]

Just wanted to say that unlike others here I love the second channel and immediately found use for it.
My gain is set higher than the drive but not buy much.
I have the output quite cranked in comparison to some other settings Ive seen and run it through a closed back 212 with v30's.
The tone/sound is very thick but always very present in the mix.
I read this forum a lot and am often suprised at some of the comments I read about ch2 in that I just dont have any problem with it. I did the reeder mods but switched back to standard. Im running it with the mesa tubes it came with.
I do get confused by comments made here. Infact I started to doubt my own ears at one stage, hence the reason for doing the reeder mod. But I disliked the end result.
I think it would almost be fair to say that I bought the LS for the 2nd ch. The 1st ch is nice but I dont really set it as clean, I set it to a nice break up.
I wonder sometimes if some of your expectations of the LS and LSS were unrealistic and if I bought the perfect amp for my needs and some of you guys paid full price for only 1/2 the amp you need. I just dont understand all the tinkering when I just pretty much set and forget.
Im in no way stirring the pot. Im just trying to get a handle on all of this. Am I the only one completely happy to go and do gigs with a standard LS?

 

[Mork]

Am I the only one completely happy to go and do gigs with a standard LS?

As I keep saying, there are plenty here who are happy with channel 2 just the way it is. My amp only gets it's master volume changed and even then that's done rarely.

 

[ziehmrd]

Am I the only one completely happy to go and do gigs with a standard LS?

As I keep saying, there are plenty here who are happy with channel 2 just the way it is. My amp only gets it's master volume changed and even then that's done rarely.

I bought the amp based on the way it sounds stock. I can get a wide variety of great tones from channel 2, and it's not difficult to find them. There is a long list of professional musicians who use these amps as they come from the factory and when I see Lone Stars at Guitar center, they only last a few days before they are sold. As has been mentioned, there are alot of people who love these amps as is. The folks who visit this board are just a small cross section of Lone Star owners. Bottom line is, this is a great amp, but tone is in the ear of the beholder.

 

[djw]

I wonder sometimes if some of your expectations of the LS and LSS were unrealistic and if I bought the perfect amp for my needs and some of you guys paid full price for only 1/2 the amp you need.

Say... what? :lol: Actually, you've got it backwards -- I'm pretty sure I got twice the amp at half the price.

Usually, those who are genuinely disappointed with the amp tend to sell it. Others, for whatever reason, live with something they don't quite like all the way. The rest of us either like it as-is, or use our opposable thumbs to see if we can make the amp sound even better to our ears. It's subjective. But if you're happy with your stuff, then leave it alone. Or don't. Who cares? People mod stuff all the time.

 

[boogiemon]

y'know, i suspect that mesa swapped the master & gain pots on ch2 just to "fix" the hair-trigger master vol. that the Mark series is known for: nothing more. The reeder mod #1 is a pretty trivial change to the amp & is completely reverse-able. That said, after having spent some more time experimenting w/the ch2 controls i think there *must* be some equivalent settings for a stock ch2, but at this point it doesn't make enough difference in my mind to warrant going back in & reverting the mod. In short: no big deal...

I wonder sometimes if some of your expectations of the LS and LSS were unrealistic and if I bought the perfect amp for my needs and some of you guys paid full price for only 1/2 the amp you need.

Say... what? :lol: Actually, you've got it backwards -- I'm pretty sure I got twice the amp at half the price.

Usually, those who are genuinely disappointed with the amp tend to sell it. Others, for whatever reason, live with something they don't quite like all the way. The rest of us either like it as-is, or use our opposable thumbs to see if we can make the amp sound even better to our ears. It's subjective. But if you're happy with your stuff, then leave it alone. Or don't. Who cares? People mod stuff all the time.

 

[lonestarpaul]

...just not to be misunderstood, I didn't want to mean that CH2 sounds bad...I love the LS as it is, my only trouble is to find a spot for CH2 considering MY needs :wink: