parametric eq`s degrades my c+

[cremona]

Hi

I have bourgt 3 diffrent rack EQ`s (ashly pqx , rane pe 17 and Tc 1140 ) for my simual IIc+ , to give it that extra somthing.

Why ?

When i had the Quad/295 combo a Tc 1140 in the loop was need to give really heavy sounds, and it sounded a bit borring without it.

So logicaly i wanted to use one with my c+.

When i got my c+ at first i used it with no effects but just doing the classiv V on the build eq , i was amazed have brutal and dynamic and metallica like it sounded .

I started to recored with it and it sounds awsome, even better then metallicas sound IMO.

But everytime i put a eq in the loop it looses some of it soul and dynamics, i have tried all maner of settings and have spend nights and days trying to get a better sound, sure i can get more bass , less midrange but the magic is lost.

Its even more aparent when i start to record , it sounds no where as awsome as with no EQ in the loop.

Is there other metal heads that prefers not to use a EQ in the Loop ? , or is my paticular C+ just that way ?

Thanks

 

[straitouttahell]

When i got my c+ at first i used it with no effects but just doing the classiv V on the build eq , i was amazed have brutal and dynamic and metallica like it sounded .

I started to recored with it and it sounds awsome, even better then metallicas sound IMO.

But everytime i put a eq in the loop it looses some of it soul and dynamics, i have tried all maner of settings and have spend nights and days trying to get a better sound, sure i can get more bass , less midrange but the magic is lost.

So, why would you want to keep using your external EQs then? :lol:

 

[Elpelotero]

It's not the amp. It's the EQ's you're using. They don't seem to be transparent and impart their own tone on the amp.

If you liked the TC model, why not sell the 3 you bought and pick up a TC unit?

 

[ryjan]

I'm in the same boat with my Mark IV. I ran a parametric in the loop for a while then I discovered that with the loop disengaged the amp felt more dynamic and organic. Now that I'm familliar with my amp I can get whatever sound I'm after without any external fx.

 

[cremona]

I bourgt all the eq`s (and a TC 1140 , acttually two 1140`s :wink: ) cheap secondhand to test and stay with the best sounding on.

The are all Good eq´s and i have to pay crazy money to find somthing that is much better.

I think i will just sell them again.

No need to fix what is not broken .

There is somthing about my c+ amp , its like ist way of delevering the dynamics and feel,and yes the organic feel, that is what it looses a important chunk of even with the Tc 1140 wich where the best of the bunch (Tc eletronics).

With the eq it sounds more compressed like a rack preamp setup.

I do use a G-Force in the loop when i record cleans, but it goes out as soon as i record crunch guitars.

I also have a feeling that when i start to play loud or live the eq will be even more damaging to the sound

 

[Facelift]

Try a Furman PQ3 or a PQ4. They are what ALL other parametrics wish they could be. I use a PQ4 with my mark III and its the dogs balls.

 

[#2121313]

Amp settings:

Vol 1 - 9.5
Treble - 7 PULLED
Bass - 2
Middle - 4
Master Vol - 1.5 (Bedroom) or 2 (Jam) PULLED
Lead Drive - 8 PULLED
Lead Master - 2.5 (Bedroom) or 4 (Jam) PULLED
Presence - 4.5
Simul Class - A MUST!

GEQ
80 - Bottom of slider at middle line
240 - At middle line
750 - Bottom of slider at bottom line
2200 - Top of slider just below middle line
6600 - Bottom of slider just above middle line, very slightly above, like a hair.

You can also pull Vol 1 if you like that extra brightness, also, not sure if your C+ has the bright mod (reduces brightness) or not, you can try by keeping the Vol 1 pushed and the Lead Master pushed. Then pull the Lead Master first for added brightness, then Vol 1 (if need be), try it in that order.

Speakers? Not sure what speakers you use, but I use G12T-75's and my C+ has the bright mod (came that way), so I use a little extra presence and keep the Lead Master always pulled. If your using V30's you'd probably want a lower presence setting like 2.5 or so.

Parametric in the loop:

120hz +3db
775hz -5db
1.2k -5
6.5k +3
4.2k +6 SHELF
Master Level at 5 (which is 5/10)

I'm using:

Rane PE15
Marshall 1960B (G12T-75's)
Mark IIC+ Simul, GEQ & Reverb (DRG) - Mesa EL34/6L6's & Tung Sol 12AX7's (basic, nothing fancy here...yet! lol)
Gibson SG Special (USA) w/ Duncan Distortions

Guitar --> Mark IIC+
Rane PE15 in the FX Loop
IIC+ 8ohm plugged into 1960B 16ohm

At the "jam" settings above I can sound bang on to any old Metallica, the rest is all in the hands and picking technique.

Try em and let me know what you think, I'd really like to know how it sounds to you so lemme know.

I found the 1960B cab to make a HUGE difference in achieving this tone, the bass/low end thump gets me that chugga chugga with ease. I've used various other cabs and there's a huge difference with the 1960B for this style of music - IMO.

Good luck.

 

[cremona]

Amp settings:

Vol 1 - 9.5
Treble - 7 PULLED
Bass - 2
Middle - 4
Master Vol - 1.5 (Bedroom) or 2 (Jam) PULLED
Lead Drive - 8 PULLED
Lead Master - 2.5 (Bedroom) or 4 (Jam) PULLED
Presence - 4.5
Simul Class - A MUST!

GEQ
80 - Bottom of slider at middle line
240 - At middle line
750 - Bottom of slider at bottom line
2200 - Top of slider just below middle line
6600 - Bottom of slider just above middle line, very slightly above, like a hair.

You can also pull Vol 1 if you like that extra brightness, also, not sure if your C+ has the bright mod (reduces brightness) or not, you can try by keeping the Vol 1 pushed and the Lead Master pushed. Then pull the Lead Master first for added brightness, then Vol 1 (if need be), try it in that order.

Speakers? Not sure what speakers you use, but I use G12T-75's and my C+ has the bright mod (came that way), so I use a little extra presence and keep the Lead Master always pulled. If your using V30's you'd probably want a lower presence setting like 2.5 or so.

Parametric in the loop:

120hz +3db
775hz -5db
1.2k -5
6.5k +3
4.2k +6 SHELF
Master Level at 5 (which is 5/10)

I'm using:

Rane PE15
Marshall 1960B (G12T-75's)
Mark IIC+ Simul, GEQ & Reverb (DRG) - Mesa EL34/6L6's & Tung Sol 12AX7's (basic, nothing fancy here...yet! lol)
Gibson SG Special (USA) w/ Duncan Distortions

Guitar --> Mark IIC+
Rane PE15 in the FX Loop
IIC+ 8ohm plugged into 1960B 16ohm

At the "jam" settings above I can sound bang on to any old Metallica, the rest is all in the hands and picking technique.

Try em and let me know what you think, I'd really like to know how it sounds to you so lemme know.

I found the 1960B cab to make a HUGE difference in achieving this tone, the bass/low end thump gets me that chugga chugga with ease. I've used various other cabs and there's a huge difference with the 1960B for this style of music - IMO.

Good luck.

Thanks for the write up


I have my amp set up pretty much like yours, but my treble is on 8 and my lead drive is on 6.5.

My c+ is a late model C wich where converted in 2006 and has a 100 pt, it dossent sound as thight as a 105 tranny version, but it dos the chunga thing just as well as eny metallica sound i have heard.

Maybe its just my amp but when i set its eq like you do it sounds just right, for me its not Eqing it needs,


But its alittel more loose in the sound wich i really like for my playing style.



Il try the rane settings later tonight saty tuned.


regards

 

[cremona]

I absolutly agree about the marshall 1960b thing, but to me the 1960BV vintage sounds ALOT better the the standard 1960.

Standard marshall cab sounds muddy , none smooth and dont have the finnes and fine mids the BV has.

In denmark the 1960 standard can be bourgt crazy cheap , while the BV`s are sourgt after and usaly cost close to there orginal price second hand, thats why i bourgt mine new.

If you havent tryed the BV version with you simual c+ you are really in for a huge upgrade IMO :wink:

I have the 1960BV`s, the exact same cabs metallica used on the albums the used the simual c+ and for good reason, its the perfect blend IMO.

 

[#2121313]

Yeah I've been thinking of trying either V30's or G12T-75's & V30's mixed in an X pattern. Out of curiosity are the 1960BV cabs themselves (forget about the speakers for a sec...) different in construction to the 1960B's?

By the way I do have the 105 PT in my C+, I didn't know there was a relation to it's overall "tightness"...

Try lowering your Bass from 2 to 1.5, I found that effects the tightness too, 2 is tight for me, but anything above causes it to get muddy...

Your probably adjusting your Treble up for added gain, right? Try to experiment with the Treble, Lead Drive & Presence, for example, try lowering your Treble to 7 but increase your Drive or do the same kind of thing by incorporating the Presence, since you can get gain from several pots on the C+ you may find that you can achieve the desired gain but by also keeping your tone tight. Just a thought for experimenting...

Lemme know how the Rane sounds for you...

By the way, I have no clue what all this sounds like recorded, I only play out loud/live and have never recorded...

 

[cremona]

HI again yes i use the trebke for more gain, il try the other way :wink:


Okay

I found out that the TC 1140 sounds of the bunch IMO, but not in the loop, its best with the guitar in the input of the TC and from the outs to the amp.


Here have it sounds with TC EQ with the sttings you gave.

http://www.netmusicians.org/files/97-c+%20%20eith%20eq.mp3

Here is my c+ as it is with the same amp settings

http://www.netmusicians.org/files/23-no%20eq.mp3

Notice have scooped it sounds as it is, the amp as it is still sounds best to me.

Have fun

 

[#2121313]

Weird, that you'd have a sound that's more scooped when in fact there are more mids present and less taken out...weird...

Try these:

120hz +3db

1.2k -5

4.2k +6 SHELF
Master Level at 5 (which is 5/10)

Basically just using 3 of the 5 I originally sent you. I just bought my C+ so I haven't had it long, but, I do know it had some caps changed and Mike B went over the amp to make sure all was good, that was in Aug/08...Maybe a tune up may be needed to tighten your tone up? Just a thought.

Your tone does sound good to me...I'd have to play it to know/better compare to my tone...I always thought tightness has a lot to do with your picking hand too...

But again it's weird that you'd have more of a scooped sound without the EQ in...Lemme know how you make out with these settings and with messing around with the Treble, Presence & Drive pots...

Try Treble 7, Presence at 3.5 and Drive at 7...Only pull Treble, Lead Drive & Lead Master & Master 1, If you need more gain adjust the presence higher and if it gets too bright then push in Master 1.

Lemme know.

 

[cremona]

Belive me it dos sound more scooped with the eq , the bass also tightens up with the eq.

Its just that the eq makes it more digital sounding.

After i recorded those clips i tryed moving the mic a bit and that completly changed the sound you here through my studio speakers, so there is alot of trying out there.

Mine was services in 2006 and it too had the bias caps replaced, it sounds plenty puchy and dos the chunk chunk thing perfectly without running out og grip.

i just dont play that way, i like metal guitars but my music is not metal music, more alice in chains if you get the idea, proberly also why im not after the exact metallica sound.

But the real problem is i have it in my apartment and the master is on 2 and the lead master on 1.2, that sucks beasue it sounds much better when i crank it.

I have come to the conclusion that it dossent need more scooping , for my taste,.

Maybe i shuld just leave it , but will try and and do some more testing, and il proberly keep on tc 1140 around.

 

[cremona]

Here is a demo track i recorded using the amp as it is.(no bass just guitar, drums)

I doubbled the guitars all through http://www.netmusicians.org/files/94-letting%20go%20final1.mp3

 

[#2121313]

Cool sounds good. I thought you were after a Metallica tone...But sounds good.

 

[DaveP]

I just received a Marshall 1960B cabinet loaded with Celestion G12T-75w's.
I was a bit concerned as I usually prefer the V30's but the G12T-75w are great. They are not as mid-range centered as the V30's.
Great low and crisp high end. I had to EQ the Mark IIC+ a bit to take the high end out but as in push in the Ld Master and Vol 1 Bright.
This speaker give you a much wider frequency respond to work with.
This is a cabinet where the bright mod is a welcome addition.

 

[cremona]

Cool sounds good. I thought you were after a Metallica tone...But sounds good.

Thanks :wink: , its my first track i have written but have much more in the pipeline, i have never taken singing classe, but will start this januar.

I thorugt it was the metallica sound i was after, but really its just the simual c+.
ALso i i have let my music writing progress natrualy and when i started singing it all just clicked .

I think my guitar on that track sounds like a very pissed of tripel Retifier (at least through a good stereo 8) , and i ges i kinda found the sound i was looking for , even do i diddent knew it before i got this amp.

Maybe alittel more bottomend and fullness but in reallity i can tweak that last bit bit by moving the mic to the right location.

I also need to crank it becasue then it really becomes a beast.

Im saving up a for a second simual c+ but with the 105 tranny, then il have two variations of the same sound.

 

[cremona]

I just received a Marshall 1960B cabinet loaded with Celestion G12T-75w's.
I was a bit concerned as I usually prefer the V30's but the G12T-75w are great. They are not as mid-range centered as the V30's.
Great low and crisp high end. I had to EQ the Mark IIC+ a bit to take the high end out but as in push in the Ld Master and Vol 1 Bright.
This speaker give you a much wider frequency respond to work with.
This is a cabinet where the bright mod is a welcome addition.

Hi dave

Yes the marshalls sound very good with boogies, the shop that carries marshall and boogie here in denmark says that many customers chose the marshalls BV with V30`s for boogie amps becasue its abit more analog sounding, i imagin that the ultimat wall of sound would be boogie straights for bottom cabs and marshall 1960BV on top, Hmm that and four c+ heads now thats my dream rig. :twisted:

Oh you shuld hear my amp with its new mullard and winged C tubes it just awesome.

The reasson it blew tubes where because the tube sockets where a bit old and if pin5 (i think it was) diddent have contact the auto bias goes right out the window .

2 new reisue mullard el34`s and two winged C 6L6 plus 4 new tube sockets, with papiars and all 250 usd, i gave him 270 and couldent be happyer :wink: .

All the best

 

[DaveP]

Good it wasn't anything major. I will have to give that tube combination a try. I need some tubes for my C+ and was thinking of trying something new.
I am really liking this cabinet. My ears are ringing, :shock: what was that you said?
They are pretty cheap on craigslist. I found it this morning and the guy was nice enough to deliver it to my door.
That's service.
It's amazing the difference a cabinet/speaker combination make. That and a little EQ.

 

[cremona]

Good it wasn't anything major. I will have to give that tube combination a try. I need some tubes for my C+ and was thinking of trying something new.
I am really liking this cabinet. My ears are ringing, :shock: what was that you said?
They are pretty cheap on craigslist. I found it this morning and the guy was nice enough to deliver it to my door.
That's service.
It's amazing the difference a cabinet/speaker combination make. That and a little EQ.

Hi dave

yes amp is now like new and its very comforting , you shuld give the tube combination a shot, i found out that the guy that did my amp is THE amp Guru here in denmark and have serviced many top guitar players amp, he had all tubes known to man and this combination gave the best balance of the power tubes, for my amp that is im sure the will work just as well with yours.

If you like the 1960 but think it sounds a bit brittel and glarish , harsh , but otherwise great you simply MUST try the 1960BV version , forget all the other marshall cabs, The BV is there best overall IMO, i think the sound much much better overall, brutal but much more refint and smooth.