Newbie here; whatchu guys use with quad>strategy 400 rig?

[dupedd]

I'm actually on here for my completely computer illiterate Boogie freak guitar bud. He's wicked with his ax but refuses to spend a lick of time really researching this stuff, so before he goes out and buys another whole rig looking for the sound(wants Dimebags rig and a Krank currently) I decided to go ahead and do his homework for him. Yeah, that's right, I'ma real bud alright.


anyway, here's the problem: He has a Mesa quad reverb with a strategy 400 and a grate mesa cab(4x12) from the day with two 90 watt EV's I think and whatever else(ah, black shadows). Both pieces have not been gone through since he got them last year, not even the tubes, though they look healthy, no redplating at least or microphonics I don't really think. It does make some strange noises sometimes though( do really high gain amps make different 'microphonic' noises than classic amps, ex: vox ac30)

He's messed with the EQ on the quad for months now and is not satisfied. To me, the QUAD looks like there's enough EQ specifics to get a good sound(BTW he's using EMG 81 and 85 HB's in ibanez RG's). Of course he's after early Metallica sound here. or heavy rock/metal in general

My question to you Boogie vets; do you all use outboard eq's with this rig and if so, what/which?

The only other thing I can think is the tubes should probably be tested, though most in the 400 are pretty new and it is cathosed biased so there shouldn't really be a biasing problem I think.

That's it I guess. Any tips or help would be mondosupremely appreciated by me and my bandmate( not to mention the rest of the band :wink: )
Thanks!

 

[dupedd]

We troubleshooted with tubes last night. Put two new Mesa marked STR(?) el34's in the back two sockets on the 400 and noticed a distinct difference, the bottom tighter, a more controlled crunch/grind and the highs more pronounced as it decribes it should sound in the manual. It also said in the manual this is what 'guitarists' tend to like with this amp(I forget this is made for Bass).

I tapped each tube with the ol eraser head trick to check for microphonics and they all seemed fine, no strange sounds.
Put the old tubes back in the rear two slots where new el34's were and the bottom was back muddy again, less controlled all around. So that's one big help: NEW tubes.

I'm still curious about outboard EQ. What do you all use or have heard of people using with this rig?
EMG 81, 85 > QUAD pre> Strategy 400> Mesa 4x12(2x 90watt black shadows and 2x 200watt EV's)

Is an old MXR script logo 5 band EQ a choice still, cause the price seems right, and how bout Hush C+'s. My buddy's talkin how they are the thing to get that real dramatic tightening for a 'heavy metal' sort of sound.
Whatch'all think?

 

[Timbre Wolf]

Worn power tubes will slowly wilt an amp into sonic mush, so you've gotten off to a great start replacing them. There are a couple of other ways that I've found to increase the chunk factor:

BBE Sonic Maximizer - I highly recommend this "process" in between your buddy's preamp and power amp. It can be viewed as an eq device, but really it is a clarification and restoration device that I have found to have a dramatic effect on making the low frequencies more solid-feeling. I think I have the model 322 (stereo, with ganged controls): it is fairly old, but it works spectacularly. I don't know what current-production model to recommend, but I'm sure they've only improved over the past decade, so I don't think you could go wrong with the available selection.

Post preamp EQ - I have also found that it is very useful to cut bass frequencies using a shelving eq below 80 hz (I usually lower it 4dB or more). Cutting bass in order to have more of it may seem counterintuitive. But what happens is that with the lowest-frequency bass murk gone, you can actually hear the lower range of the guitar more clearly. I use a Rocktron Replifex for this purpose (amongst others) and put it after my preamp, but before my Sonic Maximizer.

Rocktron Hush Super C - I use one of these, and really appreciate its ability to cut noise when I'm not playing. I play with lower gain and clean settings, keeping the threshold higher than I'd recommend for your pal. But if you want to hear really tight, chunky/thunky bursts of sonic mayhem, set the threshold low, so the gate only opens up with hard chugging strums, and set it to slam down rapidly between the blasts. This setting will kill any sustained leads, so it'll have to be disengaged for those (set it up in a programmable loop).

Hope this helps.

 

[dupedd]

Timbre Wolf, that was great!, thanks

I've a better idea what to start looking into here.
Right on

 

[dupedd]

Does any one know if there are any foot controls to turn on and off the rocktron hush c or any other device that does the same thing as the hush c that has foot controls with out having to do it manually.

 

[Timbre Wolf]

If the Quad's effects loop is not in use, I'd recommend putting the Hush in the loop (it can be switched in and out using Quad controls, I believe). This puts the Hush after the preamp, and it allows you to have it in place with higher gain settings, and out with clean settings (as you see fit). This is what I do with my Triaxis, and it works very well.

 

[t0aj15]

I have to strongly disagree with TW on one point. Being the owner of three versions of the BBE Sonic Maximizer I only find them useful in the PA system. In a guitar rig they get VERY tiresome very quickly. I'm not the only one who thinks this way, most guitarists I've talked to feel the same way. Save your money for something more important.

 

[dupedd]

TW, are you saying that if I put the Hush in the effects loop I could switch it on and off somehow, easily? Maybe you have an effects loop in/out(on/off) with the Triaxis, but the Quads FU-2 footboard doesn't have that option, my buddy's saying.

Also, he's talking about hearing how Dimebag used 2 Hush's in his rig, do you know anything about this setup?

As for that BBE sonic maximizer, we were looking into it last night actually and were hearing lots of good things about it. A lot of the HC reviews weren't actually using it for guitar but for recording, PA's and tables and such. However, on the Vintage forum(Plexi Palace), there were some people talking about them, mostly vague, good things about em.
What is it that is 'VERY tiresome'?

 

[Timbre Wolf]

BBE Sonic Max: I have never grown tired of this in my system, but I just go by my own experience. Many times I have turned it off (it is easy to bypass) just to check it out, and have decided that it really is a wonderful addition. I would caution that it shouldn't be set too high, as you can overdo it with the settings. But I don't mind if someone else hates it in their rig, I'm still using it in mine.

Two Hush units? I don't know what Dimebag did, whether it was one before the preamp and one later on, or one set with a low threshold (for cleans) and one set high (leads) with an a/b router? Too bad the Quad doesn't have remote switching for its loop (sorry, didn't know that). This works great in the Triaxis: just save it per preset, either loop on or loop off. The Hush unit is a tricky thing to use anyway, if you're changing volume a lot - you must have a predictable volume to be able to use it.

Guess I don't have all the answers for you, dupedd, but keep searching, as there's eventually going to be a way to get where you're wanting to go.

- T

 

[Boogie4Life]

dupedd,

I can offer a bit more on the BBE. I actually used it for about 8 years and would not use my rig without it. :wink: I found that for a real "metal" sound I couldnt live without it, but I also found that I really didnt need it as much for any other type of sound. It was probably the way I had it set and my tastes have evolved over the years, but I have to say I also found that the BBE is also very useful for studio mixdowns as well as live apps. I used that with the quad/strat combo with a Rane me-15 stereo e.q. along with a pcm-70 effects unit. Tell your buddy that a BBE purchase is not a bad thing because it is versatile for many apps . As for a hush....thats what stepping on channel 1 on the footswitch is for.!!! :lol: Good luck...

 

[vulture2600]

i got super creative with stepping on the ftsw for a hush. i modded a marshall ftsw by adding a momentary wired in paralell so when i was on
the dirty channel, i had a momentary clean button. it was sweet, i could
mute and unmute instantly. when i was on the clean channel, the
momentary switch did nothing.

 

[dupedd]

Thanks guys, back after a while. My buddy just came home with this sweet gate type rack unit, the ISP Decimater. It's great, it's supposed to be light years beyond the HUSH and do the same thing but the 'threshold limiting' is sensitive to how your playing(leads verse chunk/rhythm), so it adjusts itself! Only thing I noticed that is not as cool is it will eventually cut your sound out completely once a note decays to a certain point. Think when bending and the sustain dies out until, whoop it just got cut off completely. But you can just roll back the threshold a bit and have a little more 'breathing room'.

ANyway, he was saying at the guitar shop the guys were talking up the BBE sonic maximizer. I've noticed there are so many different models of it, which one's gonna do the trick, ya know?
one of them had something to do with a sub woofer output. What's that about?

 

[Timbre Wolf]

ANyway, he was saying at the guitar shop the guys were talking up the BBE sonic maximizer. I've noticed there are so many different models of it, which one's gonna do the trick, ya know?
one of them had something to do with a sub woofer output. What's that about?

There are many models currently available, with different purposes in mind. The sub-woofer model (362SW) is designed for home theater use. I'll bet that'd really add some rumble to all those movies that need helicopters and explosions to liven up the plot. I use an older model (422) that has 1/4" stereo ins and outs (482i is the current comparable unit, I believe). Others have balanced ins and outs (882i) and are designed more for recording. I've got an older 1/2-size, non-rack (stand-alone) unit that I use on my home stereo, and I simply love it.

Think when bending and the sustain dies out until, whoop it just got cut off completely. But you can just roll back the threshold a bit and have a little more 'breathing room'.

No matter what kind of noise reduction you use, you have to set the threshold level precisely. I hate to hear that chopped ending, but have found that (after raising the threshold a bit) a slight amount of post-noise reduction reverb will smooth the transition enough to get through gigs. When recording, it is best to either leave the noise reduction to the mix, or use it very carefully.