Need help with metal sound on Mesa dual rectifier roadster

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Elli87

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Hello guys im using a Mesa boogie dual rectifier roadster 2x12 combo and i need some help to get more bottom end and basically more tighter sound.Something along the lines of decapitated or similar death metal bands.Im currently playing in a band and the other guitarist has a peavy xxx and he sounds way better his amp sounds somewhat more tighter and clearer.
its hard to describe with words whats bothering me but i feel its kinda muddy or hissy and lacks the tightness and bottom end
My setting are jackson guitar with emg tuned to d standard

amp is set on channel 4 with the bold setting and 100w setting on the back along with the diode setting
gain 6-7
bass 5
middle 4
treble 6
presence usually on 0
I also have a overdrive pedal (mxr zakk wylde) that i use some times and i leave all knobs on 10 except the gain which is on 0
it makes it a little more dynamic but does not get me that sound i want.

So do you guys have any tips for me to achieve this? any info would be highly appreciated
 
Elli87 said:
Hello guys im using a Mesa boogie dual rectifier roadster 2x12 combo and i need some help to get more bottom end and basically more tighter sound.

Which one primarily? The more bottom end you have, the less tight your sound tends to get. That said, I could suggest a couple of things to try.

1) Tweak your amp
Unfortunately, I don't have a Roadster combo, I only have 2-channel Recto heads, so I cannot suggest any exact settings, they might not translate well to your amp and, more importantly, to your taste. But I know that those old 2-channel heads already have an incredible array of different sounds in them, and a Roadster should have tons more. The dream tone you are after might be lurking just around the corner, you just need to tweak some more to unlock it. Use your ears. For tight metal sound with thudding bottom, channel 4 Modern with diodes sounds like the place to start.

2) Use pedals to sculpt your tone
The traditional solution for tightening up a Recto is to add an OD pedal in front. That will typically cut the low frequencies before the preamp where they turn into mush, and then you can later bring them back with the Bass knob or an EQ in the loop. I haven't used the Zakk Wylde OD, so I don't know how different it is from the usual Tube Screamer pedals. A typical TS-808 at least ought to work very well here.
However...
If I didn't have any pedals currently and was trying to achieve the same thing as you are, I wouldn't get an OD. I would get two EQ pedals instead and stick one in front of the amp, and the other in the loop. I'd basically use the first one to sculpt the distortion character of my amp, i.e., remove the mush, tighten up the tone, add some grind and bite. Since this pedal is in front of the amp, it will have an effect on how hard the different frequencies hit the preamp and distort, and can virtually transform your amp into a different one. Then, I'd use the second EQ pedal (in the loop) to finetune the final sound, for example, add some more bottom end if I feel like it.
I like MXR 10-band EQs for either purpose, some people swear by their parametric EQs. Just stay away from the Boss 7-band EQ (and its copies), it will color your tone way too much, makes it sound cheap and plastic.

3) Try different pickups
You didn't specify which EMG's you have but some of the symptoms you describe - hiss, lack of punch, lack of clarity - sound like very typical EMG active pickup issues to me. I would suggest trying some quality passive pickups instead - I currently have Bare Knuckles in my guitars and couldn't be happier - but switching from actives to passives is not as trivial as one might think. In addition to changing the pickups, you would need new pots etc.

4) Try a different cab
More bottom end? An oversized Recto 4x12 is the typical solution. However, you already have a big, heavy, unwieldy 2x12 combo, and an extra oversized 4x12 cab is not something you want to carry in addition to that. A 2x12 extension cab might be a better solution for roadability. But for tight bass, some people swear that 4x10 is the way to go.

5) Try a different amp
The final solution. Maybe a Recto simply isn't for you? The good news is that these days, unlike a few decades ago, there a tons of excellent high-gain amps by various manufacturers to choose from. But I wouldn't recommend this until you've exhausted all other options. Your amp is perfectly capable of incredible tones, you just need find a way to coax them out. Give it more time, play more, and experiment, experiment, experiment.
 
LesPaul70 said:
2) Use pedals to sculpt your tone

However...
If I didn't have any pedals currently and was trying to achieve the same thing as you are, I wouldn't get an OD. I would get two EQ pedals instead and stick one in front of the amp, and the other in the loop. I'd basically use the first one to sculpt the distortion character of my amp, i.e., remove the mush, tighten up the tone, add some grind and bite. Since this pedal is in front of the amp, it will have an effect on how hard the different frequencies hit the preamp and distort, and can virtually transform your amp into a different one. Then, I'd use the second EQ pedal (in the loop) to finetune the final sound, for example, add some more bottom end if I feel like it.
I like MXR 10-band EQs for either purpose, some people swear by their parametric EQs. Just stay away from the Boss 7-band EQ (and its copies), it will color your tone way too much, makes it sound cheap and plastic.

My exact thoughts. I've been saying the same thing for ages on this forum; search this site if you like. EQ pedals are like gold. Run one after an OD because an OD can sometimes sound bland and flat.

Around 200-250Hz is where you need to cut ~3-6db with one in the loop. Your sound should clear up a little. Not sure if this will translate well on the combo but it's a worth a try. Every other frequency is to taste. Use your ears.

Just remember, boosting is not always the answer; cutting the offending frequencies will yield better results rather than boosting frequencies around it. If the overall perceived volume drops from cutting, you have a Master Volume to take care of that.

Welcome to tone searching. It never ends.... which what makes it all the more interesting.
 
Try EL34's and hotter pick ups.
What's up with your presence on zero? That may be part of your problem as well.
The best thing I found to help tighten up a recto is tighter playing. Work on your technique more and worry about buying more pedals less.
 
ryjan said:
What's up with your presence on zero? That may be part of your problem as well.
The best thing I found to help tighten up a recto is tighter playing.

These two observations are spot on. +1 on both.

However...

ryjan said:
Try EL34's and hotter pick ups.

Remember, the OP was already using EMGs. Assuming they are actives and not HZ, that's not exactly a low-gain pickup.
Besides, IME, way too hot pickups could also be a contributing factor when your tone is a mess. Too much gain and compression simply makes your sound mushier and causes it lose its edge. A more reasonable amount of gain and compression tends to sound punchier and ballsier.
 
LesPaul70 said:
ryjan said:
What's up with your presence on zero? That may be part of your problem as well.
The best thing I found to help tighten up a recto is tighter playing.

These two observations are spot on. +1 on both.

However...

ryjan said:
Try EL34's and hotter pick ups.

Remember, the OP was already using EMGs. Assuming they are actives and not HZ, that's not exactly a low-gain pickup.
Besides, IME, way too hot pickups could also be a contributing factor when your tone is a mess. Too much gain and compression simply makes your sound mushier and causes it lose its edge. A more reasonable amount of gain and compression tends to sound punchier and ballsier.

I have the same combo and I don't have any problem with tight tones, even without od's pedals (for a lead sound maybe. I use a MXR GT-OD and mids on 3 o'clock).

My suggestion is: Try tube rectification, channel 4 modern, moderate bass (under 12 o clock) and a presence on 12 o clock for a starting point, because the presence pot in channel 4 it's optimized for rhythm sounds in modern mode. I use EMG's. Remember, the right hand technique it's a priority to achieve tighter sounds
 
LesPaul70 said:
3) Try different pickups
You didn't specify which EMG's you have but some of the symptoms you describe - hiss, lack of punch, lack of clarity - sound like very typical EMG active pickup issues to me. I would suggest trying some quality passive pickups instead - I currently have Bare Knuckles in my guitars and couldn't be happier - but switching from actives to passives is not as trivial as one might think. In addition to changing the pickups, you would need new pots etc.

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 BKP. I was suggested to try some by the forum members here and now all my guitars are fully equipped with BKP. EXCEPTIONAL for tightness and clarity, even under ridiculous amounts of gain.
 
Have you tried John Petrucci's Road King settings? I'm not a huge fan, but I like his sound, and it's tight. If I remember correctly, he doesn't use the EL34s on the RK, so it should translate perfectly to the Roadster. May be a good starting point for you.

http://www.petrucciforum.com/forums/showthread.php?77471-John-s-setting-s-on-the-road-king
 
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