Need help on buying first Mesa...

[needsmoregear12]

I currently own a 5150 212 combo and its just not the sound im looking for. No matter how much i tweak it, it just doesnt sound right for what i want. I want an early John Petrucci tone, sort of Metallica-ish, can smooth out near Vai's sound, and a nice clean channel.

Im fine if it can get one of the three and maby use an EQ and OD to sculpt it a little bit. So just a very nice clean, good tight rhyth,, and a nice singing lead.

Ive been told a Mark III and a DC10 can get me what i want easily, thing is i cant really afford them. Ive had my amp up for sale for nearly 5 months now and ive gotten nearly no calls about it. When it does sell, Im projecting about $600 give or take a few, that money will go directly into a new amp, plus maby $50 or so. (Really tight budget, only 17 and jobless )

Ive also accepted the fact that I dont need a 212 combo, 112 will suffice, and if needed I can throw in a cab later on.

SO, the point in this post is, I need input on a Mesa Nomad 45 112. Its in 4/5 condition and brings the footswitch. Will it get me near what i want? It doesnt have to be the perfect GODLY tone, i just want something that will cover all grounds good enough. Is a trade for my 5150 212 for his Mesa Nomad 45 a fair trade? Should he be throwing in some cash to compensate, should I?

I previously started a thread where you guys recommended the Mark III and DC10, Id still love to get either of those amps but this 5150 just isnt selling. I hope you guys dont think i was wasting time, it just couldnt work out.

As always thank you all for your input, Its very much appreciated .

 

[needsmoregear12]

Im also going to be using a compressor in the front, if that affects anything. Ill be buying an EQ pedal pretty soon and probably a tubescreamer of some sort to shape the tone a bit.

Thanks again

 

[topalchohol]

I would either save a little more money and get a mark III with GEQ, or else try and find a 50 caliber with GEQ ideally. You might be able to get the 5150 to sound closer to a mark series with an EQ in the loop. Try running it with presence and resonance at noon or below, bass down low, like 9 or 10 o'clock, mids 3 o'clock, treble noon to 2, crunch engaged, On EQ in loop boost near 80 hz, cut 750 hz, and 2000 hz. This was what I did when I had a 5150, and it is as close as you will get with it. Might be your best bet until you can afford the amp you really want. Trust me, it will be cheaper in the long run to wait until you can afford a Mark III, or IV, than to settle. I've been down that road! Good luck. :wink:

 

[needsmoregear12]

Thanks, ive never tried those settings but ill give em a shot tomorrow. If it can be good enough to hold off from buying an amp for a while ill wait for it to sell.

Any particular EQ you recommend? Boss, MXR?

Thanks allot for the input, ill let you know what happens :mrgreen:

 

[needsmoregear12]

Out of curiosity, why dont you have your 5150 anymore?
Thanks

 

[D2dark]

I think I can give you 2 choise here.

1 : get a DC with a GEQ

2 : a mini recto is close to what you want i think

Try to get less in your chain, no compressor, no distortion pedal, not even an over drive.
Sometime it's more a playing style then a stomp box.

And what guitars are you using ?

 

[needsmoregear12]

Im using an Explorer with Duncan Jazz in the neck and JB in the bridge.

A Jackson DK2M with Dimarzio Liquifire in the neck and CrunchLab in the bridge.

I like using a subtle compressor on my clean channel with my guitar in the middle pickup selector and delay in the loop. Just a fat but open clean is what im after.

It seems that everywhere i look an EQ in the loop of any amp is essential.

As for the 2 amps youve suggested, ive never looked into the mini recto, as im not attracted to any of the Recto series besides a Dual for rhythm. Its just not my taste, but ill look into the mini, maby its got a different vibe?

And i need something that is of equal resale value, im looking to trade my 5150, or pray that someone will buy it. (With the economy how it is, nothing is really selling)

No one is going to want to trade my $600 5150 for their $750 DC10. I see a DC10 212 used for $600 +tax/shipping and i would buy it in a heartbeat, if i had the money.

I agree about the playing style, i try and focus on my playing dynamics as much as possible, but sometimes i like to cheat a bit :lol:

 

[D2dark]

The mini recto sound better to me than the bigger ones.
All the others recto sound like big woofy fat bit** to me comparing to this one.

Maybe it's the El84 but I think it's sound more tight, punch but not fat woof!
the vintage mod is also way cooler sounding to get lower gain stuff.

 

[needsmoregear12]

In that case, ill definitely give it a look :wink:

If i like it, when i get the money, itll come down to that, a Mark III, or DC 5 or 10.
I REALLY love the Mark III, havnt gotten to spend much time with any DC's besides a 3. And never checked out the Mini Recto.

Ill look more into it, thanks :mrgreen:

 

[Tommy_G]

Do this the old 80's way, and get 10x the bang for your buck using rack gear.

Find an ADA MP2 preamp and a rack power amp, probably one with EL34's, don't exactly know which model....and a 2x12 cabinet with v30's or G12-30s. I'm thinking that'd add up to exactly $600, and you'd get all kinds of different tones including Metallica.

 

[needsmoregear12]

Im not looking for ONLY Metallica tones, and if i was which album would this get me nearest? Im a huge fan of the Black album, its got a massive sound (Mostly having to do with the production)

I just need it to sound really tight, and id like a really nice clean channel.

Ive heard mixed reviews about the MP2, but ill look more into it. Any other ones you recommend?

 

[Elpelotero]

I agree with the above posts. The Mark III will get you that tight classic metal tone, no eq's, compressors, or stompboxes needed. It's worth to just save a little and be a hawk on ebay, google, and craigslist everyday. The Metallica settings are very public these days, and you could have the amp dialed in within seconds of opening the box. It will also get you that smooth lead tone. Petrucci and Metallica both used the same amp model (IIC+) back in the 80's/90's.

You can find a Mark III for under $1000 if you look closely and have patience. Even a Mark IV will do it, but those tend to be more expensive. Don't get a Mark II A or B though unless you want to be playing Rolling Stones.

 

[Elpelotero]

I would also look into the Triaxis and the Quad preamps. Those can get you old heavy Boogie tones easily, as well.

 

[Tuna141]

Like other have suggested, I'd save-up a little more money and look for a Mark III.

I don't think a Nomad will give you the tone you are looking for.

 

[needsmoregear12]

Allright will do, ive seen Mark III's for around $750. I might be getting a job tomorrow, if it goes through then Ill try and sell my 5150 again and save up the extra for the Mark III.

Im not going ONLY for Metallica, Cleans are VERY important to me aswell.

The triaxis sounds great, but id need a power amp, then a cab. That would be way out of my budget.

Ill continue saving for the Mark III.

 

[Tommy_G]

Im not looking for ONLY Metallica tones, and if i was which album would this get me nearest? Im a huge fan of the Black album, its got a massive sound (Mostly having to do with the production)

I just need it to sound really tight, and id like a really nice clean channel.

Ive heard mixed reviews about the MP2, but ill look more into it. Any other ones you recommend?

The MP2 has 9 fundamental preamp voicings. Numbered 1-9, the voicings progress in drive from crystal clean to a Marshall crunch tone to Mesa crunch tones to overthe top Marshall and Mesa 2C+ w/Tubescreamer type sound - very thick and tight chuggachugga. There are programmable tonestacks and graphic eq....and on board chorus, tremelo, wah...all kinds of widgets. However, I'd say the reason the preamp gets mixed reviews is because all those other onboard effects actually detract from the tone, unless you have a stereo rig, which is possible if you tie it into a Peavey 50/50 power amp which you can generally pickup for $200 or so.

MP2 - $200
Peavey 50/50 - $200
2x12 cab - $200 (each speaker should be run from a different channel for the stereo chorus effect)

It is definately not only metallica. A lot of hairbands from the 80's used ADA stuff, and they cross genres pretty well. Its not the be all and end all for tone, but for $600 you'll have a rig that cost 3x that much back when rack gear was vogue.

 

[needsmoregear12]

This sounds really promising. I really NEED versatility so ill definitely consider this, right now Mark III is my #1 priority but ill look more into this in the meantime.

Any particular speakers you recommend in the cab? Allot of people will say Celestion Vintage 30's but i personally havn't liked them when ive tried them out. Maby it was the amp I was using?

Thank you :mrgreen:

 

[Tommy_G]

Next to the guitar, the speakers are the most important element of your tone chain. Any preamp can deliver clean and a square wave distorted signal. The speaker gives the voice you have in your head.

That's the thing to concentrate on. Find the tones that you love out there, find out what speakers were used, then do a hail mary or two and make the decision. The nice thing about rack gear is that you can mix and match pre's, power amps, and cabs as your heart desires, and each piece is not so heavy that you can't have it shipped by UPS, unlike a Heartbreaker 2x12 combo or something.

This is what I've found with speakers....Greenbackish speakers have enough coloration in the higher frequencies that they rock great with low gain preamps, but they fizz too much with higher gain tones. The C90 is so very clean and flat that its sterile. If I had to buy today, I'd give a Celestion G12-65 a whirl as it is described as being half way between those two extremes. Eminence makes a clone called the Tonespotter. I've never tried any of this speaker type, but based on descriptions, that's where I'd be going.

You'll have an awful hard time finding a 2x12 with G12H65 originals or clones in it for $200. V30 cabs are probably the most plentiful out there, and they cut real good. 60W rated so you'd be ok with running with a 50W channel.

 

[needsmoregear12]

Ive been listening to clips of the MP-2 for the past hour or so, and im really interested in it now. Its beyond versatile. Allot of the clips were using Mesa 50/50 Power amps though, and i have a feeling that will be out of my budget.

Will the Peavey 50/50 be pretty similar to it?

Any other recommended power amps out there that can be had pretty cheap? Im only looking for used by the way, I cant afford new gear :x

 

[Tommy_G]

A Mesa 50/50 uses 6L6 tubes, I believe.

The Mesa 20/20 uses 2x EL84's for each channel - the little brother to an EL34.

The Peavey 50/50 uses 4xEL84's for each channel.

I think Marshall used to make a 50/50 rackmount power amp with EL34's.

6L6's are a full spectrum with a crisp breakup with little compression before breakup. Think Fender Twin clean tones, country western sizzle with em cooking (and you're ears blasted off). Boogie uses 6L6's I believe because they have a lot of headroom for minimum coloration when you're running supersaturated preamp gain tones. You're after a clean power amp with those tones.

EL84's break up quite a bit earlier than the rest, and have a sweet chime to them. They cross genre's quite readily as anyone with a Maz 18 will attest. Having 4x per channel in the Peavey will keep them clean for all the volume a person would ever want. Some guys pull two EL84's per channel on the PV to knock the rating down to half, and then use the lower impedance output to their speakers. Its a smoother breakup without as much grit as the EL34's, from my experience anyways. I definately prefer a bit of bark.

EL34's are classic Marshall breakup, and they seem to breakup quite a bit earlier than 6L6's. I'm using those right now in my Heartbreaker with my preamps running clean, and I dream about playing my guitar because its got such great feel. The compression and light clip gives you sustain and a beautiful uppermid sweet harmonic character in the midrange that sustains. Its too smooth for country picking though. You run a clean preamp into an overdriven EL34 amp and you will feel like you're on the stage next to Mellencamp or Fogerty. Its an awesome experience. Unfortunately, the EL34 racks are harder to come by.

I'm thinking KT77's or tungsol EL34B's for my next power tube swap, because I need to cross from country to hard rock, and these tubes apparently give an EL34 breakup with the extension and a bit of the crunch of a 6L6.