my Mark V channel 1 fat doesn't sound, well, fat

[gtrnstuff]

Compared to my Mk V 25, or my old Formula Pre, or my older Tri-Axis.
I'm having trouble getting a warm, full clean tone from channel 1 on my big Mark V.

But I tried swapping V3 anyway, since it affects Ch1. (Left V1 alone, since Ch 2 and 3 sound fine)
The 12AX7C was a bit lower gain and brighter in the circuit than the original JJ-looking 12AX7.

Is it just voiced for high output, strong midrange, metal flavored pickups?
I run mid control almost full, bass 9:00 to 11:00, treble about 1:00, bold on.

 

[screamingdaisy]

So, all mids and no bass.... Kind of like an EMG 81. And you wonder why it doesn't sound fat, warm or full?

Fat is blackface Fender. Scoop the mids.

Gain - 12:15
Treb - 11:30
Mids - 9:30
Bass - 12:15
Pres - 9:15
EQ off
45 watt
Tube rectifier on
Bold on

 

[gtrnstuff]

So, all mids and no bass.... Kind of like an EMG 81. And you wonder why it doesn't sound fat, warm or full?

Fat is blackface Fender. Scoop the mids.

Gain - 12:15
Treb - 11:30
Mids - 9:30
Bass - 12:15
Pres - 9:15
EQ off
45 watt
Tube rectifier on
Bold on

Yes, I've tried similar settings to that, and it still lacks the low mids, definition in the treble and the bass is too flabby.
I run blackface Fenders with mids fairly high, too.
EDIT
My max mid setting is trying to compensate for my vintage to medium output passive humbuckers. When I tried higher output, midrange pickups, the Mark V Ch1 seemed a better match.
It's like there's an EQ dip between the 3-500Hz range and the 90Hz range that I can't fill in without using the graphic EQ, which I don't want to do, since it's essential for my Ch3 tones.


Just can't get from my Mark V what I can get from my other MESA clean channels. It seems so bright and tight and flat in comparison.
Wondering if it's just the way it is or if there is an issue with my amp.

 

[screamingdaisy]

All my guitars are vintage output (PAF, P90s, etc) and I favour pure nickel strings. I also favoured Recto cabs. V30s have lots of mids while the cab produces a full bottom end. I'm not sure what you're paired up with.

If you're using stock preamp tubes try swapping the V1 for a Tung-Sol or EHX. I find the stock JJs have good upper mids but leave the low mids a little hollow. Great for the lead channel, but not the best clean tone. Throwing a Tung-Sol in the V1 helps balance things out a little. It's not a night and day difference... it'll still sound like a Mark V, but it may give you what you're looking for.

 

[gtrnstuff]

All my guitars are vintage output (PAF, P90s, etc) and I favour pure nickel strings. I also favoured Recto cabs. V30s have lots of mids while the cab produces a full bottom end. I'm not sure what you're paired up with.

If you're using stock preamp tubes try swapping the V1 for a Tung-Sol or EHX. I find the stock JJs have good upper mids but leave the low mids a little hollow. Great for the lead channel, but not the best clean tone. Throwing a Tung-Sol in the V1 helps balance things out a little. It's not a night and day difference... it'll still sound like a Mark V, but it may give you what you're looking for.

Thanks. I'll try some tube rolling next.
I've done a lot of that with my other amps. Like you said, it doesn't change what they are, but can nudge the sound toward something you're after.

And it may be that it's a power supply/transformer/PI/output stage thing that just is what it is.
Like a Deluxe Reverb vs a Twin Reverb.

What I'm usually using with the Mk V is a "big" Recto 4-12 with V30s.

 

[gtrnstuff]

All my guitars are vintage output (PAF, P90s, etc) and I favour pure nickel strings. I also favoured Recto cabs. V30s have lots of mids while the cab produces a full bottom end. I'm not sure what you're paired up with.

If you're using stock preamp tubes try swapping the V1 for a Tung-Sol or EHX. I find the stock JJs have good upper mids but leave the low mids a little hollow. Great for the lead channel, but not the best clean tone. Throwing a Tung-Sol in the V1 helps balance things out a little. It's not a night and day difference... it'll still sound like a Mark V, but it may give you what you're looking for.

Well, getting closer.
In V1:
An EH I had sounded sort of thin, and Ch2 and 3 lost a lot of the smooth sustain.
A 12AX7C helps the clean in Ch1 a lot, and doesn't hurt Ch2 and 3 too much.
I think I still have a Tung-Sol in something. I'll try it before I say I'm done.

Those JJ really push a lot of signal. Myles Rose once said he likes them in MESA's complex circuits.

I've been pleasantly surprised at my ability to swap these out by feel. V1 is not visible without taking the chassis out.
Haven't bent any pins yet.

 

[shredding]

My mark v sound a lot thinner at the same setting than my mark v25. I have to roll the treble back a lot to 11 o clock to get close to the mark v25 clean. Why is this? Same tubes and everything

 

[Chris19]

Have you tried switching to diode rectification? That can definitely add some punch and depth. Another thing that helps for me is using the preset graphic eq somewhere between 10-3 o'clock, cleans sound huge and jangly for me, even with a 2-12 recto cab. Sounds equally good with my active and passive equipped guitars. I also hear a difference between running the gain high (12-ish)and volume lower; it gives a more prominent mid/low-mid response. The opposite (gain around 9-ish and volume higher) gives me the big, scooped Fender cleans. My settings are generally this:

Fat
Bold switch engaged
Gain-9-10
Master to taste
Presence-12-1230
Treble-1130-1230 (depends on the guitar/pups)
Mids-9
Bass-1030-11
Preset eq-11
90W
Diode rectification

These settings get me close to the clean tone of Mark Tremonti on the Alter Bridge song "Broken Wings" just for reference. I fiddle with the treble and presence often; adding a little of one and subtracting the other.