My first Mesa/Boogie

[Marco78]

Hi guys, this is my first message on this fantastic board.

I want buy my first Mesa Boogie and I look for a sound similar to Mark 1 (fat and rounded overdrive with infinite sustain) but I can't buy a Mark 1 because in Italy the Mesa cost very much. I want two-chanel amp with good clean too.

For this purpose what series is more adapt between Dual Caliber, F-series and Subway series???

TNX

PS: max wattage is 50 watt because I use it in home e in future with a band.

PPS: sorry for me English!

 

[GD_NC]

Hey! Welcome to the forum.

I'm a big fan of the DC series. I understand the DC-5 or DC-10, which have a 6L6/Class AB power amps,, are the most Mark-like for cleans. but more like a Recto for Lead.

I had a DC-3 which is based on an EL-84 / Class A style power amp. Great amp but does not sound anything like a Mark. The 22 Caliber, DC-2, F-30 & Subway are all EL84 amps that are close siblings to the DC-3. All great reat amps, but if you are looking for that distinctive Mark sound, these don't have it.

Another option might be Mark III. Those are usually in the same price range as the DC-5 or DC-10 in the US. They are amazing amps with all the Mark tone you are looking for. They seem to be plentiful around here with many sellers on EBay willing to ship overseas.

Most of the higher wattage Mesas have power reduction options so don't be too worried about wattage. My Mark IV is actually better at low volume than an 35w DC-3.

Good luck on your search!

 

[Marco78]

Hey! Welcome to the forum.

I'm a big fan of the DC series. I understand the DC-5 or DC-10, which have a 6L6/Class AB power amps,, are the most Mark-like for cleans. but more like a Recto for Lead.

I had a DC-3 which is based on an EL-84 / Class A style power amp. Great amp but does not sound anything like a Mark. The 22 Caliber, DC-2, F-30 & Subway are all EL84 amps that are close siblings to the DC-3. All great reat amps, but if you are looking for that distinctive Mark sound, these don't have it.

Another option might be Mark III. Those are usually in the same price range as the DC-5 or DC-10 in the US. They are amazing amps with all the Mark tone you are looking for. They seem to be plentiful around here with many sellers on EBay willing to ship overseas.

Most of the higher wattage Mesas have power reduction options so don't be too worried about wattage. My Mark IV is actually better at low volume than an 35w DC-3.

Good luck on your search!

TNX for the reply gd-nc!

Mark III in Italy cost between 1500 and 2000 $!!! In USA you use 110 V trasformers, while in Italy use 220-230 V and so I can't any amps (only guitar) from USA! :|

I hate a Recto sound, I look for vintage overdrive, not too much compressed...

What are the differents between DC-3, F-30 and Rocket 44?? All use EL84...

 

[trickyrick]

I had a DC-3 which is based on an EL-84 / Class A style power amp. Great amp but does not sound anything like a Mark. The 22 Caliber, DC-2, F-30 & Subway are all EL84 amps that are close siblings to the DC-3. All great reat amps, but if you are looking for that distinctive Mark sound, these don't have it.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with this comment. I have owned several marks, most recently a MKIV. I have just purchased a DC3 head that I play through an EVM12L Theile and I have dialed in a nearly exact replica of my lead tone from the IV. I Find the cleans to be similar as well, maybe even a little better. I was very pleasantly surprised to get the tone I get from this amp considering My ears have been dialed into 6L6's for so long I thought the EL84's would be worlds apart. I find this amp to be thicker than the IV, which has always been my pet peeve with that amp, too thin sounding.

Maybe it's the JJ tubes in the amp that gets me the tone, I have not had time to experiment with all of the different pre and pwr amp tubes I have.

Anyway, this is just another opinion from someone who has owned and played both amps.

 

[GD_NC]

I had a DC-3 which is based on an EL-84 / Class A style power amp. Great amp but does not sound anything like a Mark. The 22 Caliber, DC-2, F-30 & Subway are all EL84 amps that are close siblings to the DC-3. All great reat amps, but if you are looking for that distinctive Mark sound, these don't have it.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with this comment. I have owned several marks, most recently a MKIV. I have just purchased a DC3 head that I play through an EVM12L Theile and I have dialed in a nearly exact replica of my lead tone from the IV. I Find the cleans to be similar as well, maybe even a little better. I was very pleasantly surprised to get the tone I get from this amp considering My ears have been dialed into 6L6's for so long I thought the EL84's would be worlds apart. I find this amp to be thicker than the IV, which has always been my pet peeve with that amp, too thin sounding.

Maybe it's the JJ tubes in the amp that gets me the tone, I have not had time to experiment with all of the different pre and pwr amp tubes I have.

Anyway, this is just another opinion from someone who has owned and played both amps.

That's interesting. I've owned both amps at the same time. My DC-3 was all JJ's like yours. I guessing the reason mine was so different was the speaker. I have a Mark IV w/ EVM vs. my DC-3 with a V-30. I agree the lead tones are much more similar than the cleans. I still believe Mark has far more clean headroom especially on the full power/simul setting. I really like the DC-3 cleans I just don't think they are the same. That said a Thiele can have dramatic effect on the tone of any amp. My gripe with the DC-3 was lack of Bass and too much mid. I think if I had swapped the V-30 (too midrangey) for an EVM Thiele (tons of Bass) I may have a different opinion.

Regardless they are both great amps. I'd love to have kept my DC.

 

[GD_NC]

What are the differents between DC-3, F-30 and Rocket 44?? All use EL84...

Evolution over 25 years...

Caliber -> DC -> Subway/Rocket-> F-series > Express Series

Not exactly that linear but you get the idea.

 

[trickyrick]

I had a DC-3 which is based on an EL-84 / Class A style power amp. Great amp but does not sound anything like a Mark. The 22 Caliber, DC-2, F-30 & Subway are all EL84 amps that are close siblings to the DC-3. All great reat amps, but if you are looking for that distinctive Mark sound, these don't have it.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with this comment. I have owned several marks, most recently a MKIV. I have just purchased a DC3 head that I play through an EVM12L Theile and I have dialed in a nearly exact replica of my lead tone from the IV. I Find the cleans to be similar as well, maybe even a little better. I was very pleasantly surprised to get the tone I get from this amp considering My ears have been dialed into 6L6's for so long I thought the EL84's would be worlds apart. I find this amp to be thicker than the IV, which has always been my pet peeve with that amp, too thin sounding.

Maybe it's the JJ tubes in the amp that gets me the tone, I have not had time to experiment with all of the different pre and pwr amp tubes I have.

Anyway, this is just another opinion from someone who has owned and played both amps.

That's interesting. I've owned both amps at the same time. My DC-3 was all JJ's like yours. I guessing the reason mine was so different was the speaker. I have a Mark IV w/ EVM vs. my DC-3 with a V-30. I agree the lead tones are much more similar than the cleans. I still believe Mark has far more clean headroom especially on the full power/simul setting. I really like the DC-3 cleans I just don't think they are the same. That said a Thiele can have dramatic effect on the tone of any amp. My gripe with the DC-3 was lack of Bass and too much mid. I think if I had swapped the V-30 (too midrangey) for an EVM Thiele (tons of Bass) I may have a different opinion.

Regardless they are both great amps. I'd love to have kept my DC.

I guess I should have mentioned that all of the marks I've owned had EV's in them. I agree that the IV has more clean headroom, it is double the wattage of the DC. The funny thing is I was always in class A, Tweed when I owned my IV so the transition was easy for me. I also agree the cleans are different. It seems the IV is tighter ( Cleans and gain ) where the DC is looser and more full sounding.

I have not had a chance to run the DC through other cabs so maybe my opinion is limited. I will say I am happy in my honeymoon period, I love the smooth gain and the bouncy cleans on the DC, it seems to have what I loved about the IV and nothing of what I disliked. The price is right so that if I did find something else I like, I won't have to sell it. Who knows, maybe every mark owners road ends with the V.

 

[Fronzil]

the best sounds in the IV are in simul class / full power IMO...that combo with triode or pentode sounds deadly, depending what you're looking for...there is nothing thin sounding about it..

 

[Fxrs]

Hi guys, this is my first message on this fantastic board.

I want buy my first Mesa Boogie and I look for a sound similar to Mark 1 (fat and rounded overdrive with infinite sustain) but I can't buy a Mark 1 because in Italy the Mesa cost very much. I want two-chanel amp with good clean too.

For this purpose what series is more adapt between Dual Caliber, F-series and Subway series???

TNX

PS: max wattage is 50 watt because I use it in home e in future with a band.

PPS: sorry for me English!

I would suggest a .50 Cal+ rather than any of the models you mentioned, they are all darker than a MarkI, i don't know about the Subway Blues tho, but the rocket is similar to a DC-series in tone.(This is all Lead channel I'm referring to)

 

[dodger916]

the best sounds in the IV are in simul class / full power IMO...that combo with triode or pentode sounds deadly, depending what you're looking for...there is nothing thin sounding about it..

+1. I run mine in triode for a very slight rounding or softening.

 

[Marco78]

Hi guys, this is my first message on this fantastic board.

I want buy my first Mesa Boogie and I look for a sound similar to Mark 1 (fat and rounded overdrive with infinite sustain) but I can't buy a Mark 1 because in Italy the Mesa cost very much. I want two-chanel amp with good clean too.

For this purpose what series is more adapt between Dual Caliber, F-series and Subway series???

TNX

PS: max wattage is 50 watt because I use it in home e in future with a band.

PPS: sorry for me English!

I would suggest a .50 Cal+ rather than any of the models you mentioned, they are all darker than a MarkI, i don't know about the Subway Blues tho, but the rocket is similar to a DC-series in tone.(This is all Lead channel I'm referring to)

The Mesa 0.50 cal+ have one channel, so it isn't good for me. In a next day I'll test a Rocket 44.

tnx

 

[Marco78]

What are the differents between DC-3, F-30 and Rocket 44?? All use EL84...

Evolution over 25 years...

Caliber -> DC -> Subway/Rocket-> F-series > Express Series

Not exactly that linear but you get the idea.

ah ok! :wink:

A question: Is EVM speaker a Black Shadow? :?:

 

[GD_NC]

What are the differents between DC-3, F-30 and Rocket 44?? All use EL84...

Evolution over 25 years...

Caliber -> DC -> Subway/Rocket-> F-series > Express Series

Not exactly that linear but you get the idea.

ah ok! :wink:

A question: Is EVM speaker a Black Shadow? :?:

"Black Shadow" is Mesa's OEM speaker name. Could be EVM-12L, Celestion MC-90, Eminence MS-12 and a few others. Most of the newer ones are clearly labled to say what they are and have the manufacturers name on them. For some reason, the Celestion V-30's don't usually have the "Black Shadow" label.

If in doubt, just post a picture or the model # here and someone will know.

 

[Marco78]

"Black Shadow" is Mesa's OEM speaker name. Could be EVM-12L, Celestion MC-90, Eminence MS-12 and a few others. Most of the newer ones are clearly labled to say what they are and have the manufacturers name on them. For some reason, the Celestion V-30's don't usually have the "Black Shadow" label.

If in doubt, just post a picture or the model # here and someone will know.

TNX!

I don't know EVM-12L? Is it celestion?

 

[Fronzil]

the best sounds in the IV are in simul class / full power IMO...that combo with triode or pentode sounds deadly, depending what you're looking for...there is nothing thin sounding about it..

+1. I run mine in triode for a very slight rounding or softening.

ya i typically do as well..when i get into the more aggressive metal tones, i switch it to pentode / mid gain..triode / harmonics for any rock, prog etc..but ya, gotta low the full power / simul !!

 

[Vigo1999]

Hi guys, this is my first message on this fantastic board.

I want buy my first Mesa Boogie and I look for a sound similar to Mark 1 (fat and rounded overdrive with infinite sustain) but I can't buy a Mark 1 because in Italy the Mesa cost very much. I want two-chanel amp with good clean too.

For this purpose what series is more adapt between Dual Caliber, F-series and Subway series???

TNX

PS: max wattage is 50 watt because I use it in home e in future with a band.

PPS: sorry for me English!

I would suggest a .50 Cal+ rather than any of the models you mentioned, they are all darker than a MarkI, i don't know about the Subway Blues tho, but the rocket is similar to a DC-series in tone.(This is all Lead channel I'm referring to)

The Mesa 0.50 cal+ have one channel, so it isn't good for me. In a next day I'll test a Rocket 44.

tnx

actually it's a 2 channel shared eq amp.

and if you get one with a graphic eq you can drastic change your tone from one channel to the other plus it's one hell of a good sounding amp, fratello!! 8)

 

[dodger916]

"Black Shadow" is Mesa's OEM speaker name. Could be EVM-12L, Celestion MC-90, Eminence MS-12 and a few others. Most of the newer ones are clearly labled to say what they are and have the manufacturers name on them. For some reason, the Celestion V-30's don't usually have the "Black Shadow" label.

If in doubt, just post a picture or the model # here and someone will know.

TNX!

I don't know EVM-12L? Is it celestion?

No. It's manufactured by Electro-Voice, hence the "EV" designation. It's a very articulate and neutral sounding speaker. Crisp highs and boomy yet tight bottom. The MC-90 is also a great speaker for Marks. If the EVM is pure white, the C-90 is like off-white. It contains some of the Celestion midrange bump. The MS-12 is also great for Marks. It's not as articulate as the 12-L or C-90, but has a very pleasant midrange roundness, kinda like a Marshall sound.

The frame of the 12-L has eight narrow support arms, like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Electro-Voice-E...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c51878764

The C-90 has the typical Celestion four very broad support arms.

The MS-12 has the cavalier on the magnet:http://cgi.ebay.com/Mesa-Boogie-MS-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b76a1eaf

 

[Marco78]

fratello!! 8)

 

[SonicProvocateur]

I'll chime in a little on this; for awhile I briefly owned an F-50 combo (C-90 equipped) and did love it (while it worked).

The cleans were nice and chimey, the new Express series reminded me alot of that tone, but the Express reverb is more wet, and the F-50 was slightly more dry. Loud as all getout of course, with gorgeous articulation and Mark-like expression. Didnt really break into the gain on the clean channel though, it was very clean. Not quite the same depth as the Mark I, but with the right settings definitely similar.

The gain channel was very toneful though. Lots of options with the contour switch, which gave it the more midrange scoop and took it into modern gain territory. It could go from mild to agressive very easily. Sustain for miles, and a tone stack that gave lots of sounds (per usual Mesa). Its a very transparent sounding gain from what I remembered, much like the Mark I. I wouldnt go with a combo though; mine died twice in 8 months ownership and I gave it up and moved on to my beloved Mark III.

 

[Marco78]

"Black Shadow" is Mesa's OEM speaker name. Could be EVM-12L, Celestion MC-90, Eminence MS-12 and a few others. Most of the newer ones are clearly labled to say what they are and have the manufacturers name on them. For some reason, the Celestion V-30's don't usually have the "Black Shadow" label.

If in doubt, just post a picture or the model # here and someone will know.

TNX!

I don't know EVM-12L? Is it celestion?

No. It's manufactured by Electro-Voice, hence the "EV" designation. It's a very articulate and neutral sounding speaker. Crisp highs and boomy yet tight bottom. The MC-90 is also a great speaker for Marks. If the EVM is pure white, the C-90 is like off-white. It contains some of the Celestion midrange bump. The MS-12 is also great for Marks. It's not as articulate as the 12-L or C-90, but has a very pleasant midrange roundness, kinda like a Marshall sound.

The frame of the 12-L has eight narrow support arms, like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Electro-Voice-E...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c51878764

The C-90 has the typical Celestion four very broad support arms.

The MS-12 has the cavalier on the magnet:http://cgi.ebay.com/Mesa-Boogie-MS-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b76a1eaf

You are very gentle! TNXXXXX