Multi effects debate

The Boogie Board

Help Support The Boogie Board:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I'm currently trying to find an old Ibanez PUE5 multi effect pedal. It's basically like having several stomp boxes all hooked together for the price of one pedal. No patches to save and fool with (which makes me very happy). Just adjust the different effects to taste and turn on/off as needed. They make a tube version and a non-tube version. Both are supposed to sound good. Should work well with my F-30 for grab-n-go tones...
 
I've been chasing tone for quite some time. I must say that with the purchase of
my new Mesa Boogie & Orange TT amps, the limited time I've had the pleasure of
spending with them has reinforced my belief that a mess of pedals only cruds up
the mix. I'm not talking only about tone-suckage, buffering circuits, or multi-
layered overdrive boosts into distortion on flanged phasers through pitch-
shifted wah-delays etc.

Point #1:

Consider how many tone controls there are in your chain. Include signal
coloration by knobs that aren't specificially labeled Bass, Treble, Mid, Fat,
Muscle, Presence, High, Low, & Frequency. Every knob that modifies the signal:
Sweep, Rate, Level, Mix, etc. colors the resulting output. Couple that idea with
the endless cascades of pedals into pedals & one finally concludes that the
endless variation of frustrating possibilities exist that is almost
insurmountable in seeking that perfect tone for which we all strive.

My guitar, my pedals, my amps, my mixer... all have tone controls. Are they
working together or are they fighting each other? How to best set them ALL & in
what combinations? If you set the best tone with pedals that are on, what
happens if you turn one off & add two more into play? What a nightmare. If you
have a tone control on each of 10 effects as well as your amp, it can be rather
difficult to dial in your sound when they're all on. True, we hardly run 10
effects at once but conceptually, aren't they all fighting each other? Which
Bass knob should you attenuate?

Point #2:

Gain circuits lower your S/N or signal-to-noise ratio. This is because our ears
expect clarity & when you amplify a signal, you also amplify the noise within
that signal. If you add a little noise to a pristine signal, it becomes rather
prominent. Its almost like if you add a tablespoon of wine to a barrel of
sewage, you get a barrel of sewage. Conversely, if you add a tablespoon of
sewage to a barrel full of wine, you also get sewage. Keep the noise out or at
least run a bare minimum of gain enhancing effects simultaneously. I'm sure you
don't even have to imagine the sonic crap that comes from a noisy compressor
before a boost, running in front of 2 or 3 overdrive & distortion boxes all on
at the same time. Try playing an articulate chord through all that mud. On a
side note, too much delay & reverb sounds mushy.

Point #3:

If you aren't satisfied at the very basic tone from your guitar to your
amplifier w/o effects, then how in the hell is a buttload of effects going to
help? I'm slowly realizing the obvious. I'm using a lot less pedals
simultaneously now & only for subtle effect. I don't need guitar-jets swooshing
& diving all about while speaking vocal "oohs" & "ahhs". I'm trying to get back
to a basic vintage guitar sound, ya know? Sure, slight stereophonic ambience
creates a rich, lush presence but endless bouncing delays through sewer pipes &
distorted mush just isn't cutting it anymore. Think clarity, subtlety; clean
things up a bit.

Keep it simple. Take advantage of multiple loops. Run a Boss LS-2 or other loop
unit to break your effects into separate blocks to minimize noise & tone
degradation. Although True-bypass pedals is a long-standing debate, they allow
you to fully remove them, their buffers, & their AD/DA converters from the
chain. Also, keep cables as short as possible. & close-mic your sources.

Point #4:

Say you have 10 pedals vs. a multi-effect unit. The individual pedals have
buffered inputs whereas the multi-effect unit only has one. There would be more
signal degradation through many pedals as compared to the multi. Additionally,
many pedals today are digital. This means you have an AD converter on the input
& a DA converter on the output. When you daisy-chain many of these together,
latency rises. Combine this latency with 1ms/ft between you & your amp or
speaker & you'll soon perceive the inherent delay that has built up. This
exhibition is not unlike recording with ambient room mics as the delay
approaches noticability.

Conclusion:

Shoot for less pedals to get your sound & strive for clarity. Multi-effects
units minimize noise & tone suckage due to the fact that you'd be running fewer
buffers & converters in your chain. If you like all your single effects, try
setting all tone controls to unity & running a Parametric EQ at the end of your
chain. Use True-bypass pedals or incorporate dedicated loops into your chain to
further minimize signal degradation.

I hope this helps focus a few of you guys. I got all wrapped up in my pedal
collection & as proud as I am in my materialistic ways, we must learn to use
them judiciously & with meaningful effectiveness.
 
guitarman i've got an ME-50 i'm selling if you're looking to buy one? It's in perfect working order with just a few "charming" marks here and there!

P.M. me if you're interested :)

Sorry for the shameless advert! I bought a G major when i first got my Roadster and it sounded great. Unfortunately i had absolutely no idea what half of the settings on it were for or how to tweak them and i didn't stick with it long enough to find out. Sort of wish i had now! Anyway it's in Germany now with a very nice man who i'm sure has given it a good home.

I tend to steer clear of the multi-effects thing now. I prefer to be able to see exactly what i've got on and off at a glance and not rely on memory in a live situation. Also it means i've got quick and easy access to change things while i'm playing. There are some amazing multi-effects packages i'm sure but then there are just so many incredible stompboxes out there and it seems much easier to select the exact chorus you want, the exact phaser, the exact delay pedal etc. if you go down the stompbox route.

Also on the ease of set up front you can't get much easier than taking the lid off your pedalboard flightcase and plugging it in :shock:

Just my humble opinion anyway... :wink:
 
It sounds like some of you guys would be pleasantly surprised with the Digitech GSP1101. I find very little tone change (sometimes it's near impossible to tell if my Mark IV's loop is on or off) but the effects are top notch with settings you would find on a pedal to adjust. The editing is not deep but there's just enough to get the right adjustments without breaking out the calculator and graph paper.

I think one of the greatest benefits of having the GSP is the wah, compression and OD are out front and the delays, verbs, EQ all in the effects loop. The mod effects can be placed before the input or in the loop.

One of the biggest downsides is the lack of relay switching since the advertisements boast using the GSP with your current rig. I just ordered an axess electronics CFX4 to make my Mark IV 100% midi controllable.

I think some ebay dealers are selling them for $400 which, if i am not mistaken, is right around the price of the g major but you get much better functionality if you want to make an all in one rig.

Greg
 
disassembled said:
It sounds like some of you guys would be pleasantly surprised with the Digitech GSP1101. I find very little tone change (sometimes it's near impossible to tell if my Mark IV's loop is on or off)
Yeah me too I got the GSP1101 a few weeks ago and have not had the opportunity to get into to it deep as I would like but I love it so far. As disassembled said you don’t have the deep Deep – editing but still way more editing as compared to stomp boxes. The effects sound very clean and down right awesome there are some Lexicon reverbs and a TC Electronics chorus. This processor also does the 4 cable method which is a big plus.

Even if I chose to run a different processor in the loop I think I would still leave the GSP1101 in the rack (front of the amp) just for the stomp-box sims alone and the compressor. But so far I think I will be using it for everything. Also comes with software, so an USB cable makes programming go way faster! A big plus to me.
 
I too have a Boss ME50 and it is the weak link in my gear chain. My next move is to get a G Major processor and a midi pedal. Go with a rack unit.
 
I currently use stomp boxes and really like the ease of use for them. If I want to try something different, I can just switch them out or turn some knobs. I guess I'm more of a tactile person. I feel like I'd get confused with a rack setup. I like the ease of being able to turn on a pedal if I feel like a song needs something different on the fly, rather than finding an acceptable patch in a MIDI setup.

If I were to go with a rack processor though, I think the Digitech would be for me.

As for right now, I'll keep my stomp boxes. :)
 
jtb226 said:
I currently use stomp boxes and really like the ease of use for them. If I want to try something different, I can just switch them out or turn some knobs. I guess I'm more of a tactile person. I feel like I'd get confused with a rack setup. I like the ease of being able to turn on a pedal if I feel like a song needs something different on the fly, rather than finding an acceptable patch in a MIDI setup.

If I were to go with a rack processor though, I think the Digitech would be for me.

As for right now, I'll keep my stomp boxes. :)

That's me too. I actually got an Ibanez PUE-5 for grab-n-go effects. It looks like 5 pedals all combined one unit. There's knobs, footswitches, and LEDs for each effect and no patches to worry about. It's beat to **** already so I don't have to worry about taking super good care of it. I think it's all analog too from what I can find about it... Any more info on it would be greatly appreciated!
 
MusicManJP6 said:
That's me too. I actually got an Ibanez PUE-5 for grab-n-go effects. It looks like 5 pedals all combined one unit. There's knobs, footswitches, and LEDs for each effect and no patches to worry about. It's beat to sh!t already so I don't have to worry about taking super good care of it. I think it's all analog too from what I can find about it... Any more info on it would be greatly appreciated!

Aren't those from the eighties? I remember my guitar teacher telling me about those when I was like 12 (about 12 years ago!) and I thought it was a great idea as opposed to a crappy multieffect unit with useless effects like the Boss GT-3 that I absolutely had to have when they first came out.

If I remember correctly ibanez made a rack module that did the same thing. The biggest issue I would have is tone degredation of all of those old pedal designs (especially the delays and chorus using AD/DA converters and/or poorly designed buffers if they are in fact all analog).

From my very opionated standpoint I see the design set forth with the GSP to become a staple for other companies to live up to. What I mean by this is not the fact that the GSP uses the 4CM, which has been around since the early 90's, but that it is not noticable in the signal like most other processors are. I don't like the idea of being forced to buy other gear just to effectively use what you originally wanted (like those that use high end mixers and signal buffers to keep their original tone in tact). I tried the mixer route with an FX unit and my original tone was there but I found out how much it was actually changed by the FX unit and I didn't want it in my signal at all after that point. The G system is a bit dated now and probably could stand a rehashing to bring it up to snuff by making it easier to allow the signal to pass through perceivably unaltered like the GSP seems to do. I have read lots of praise of the G system but also a lot of negative talk regarding setup procedures and tone alteration. There isn't an input gain control on the GSP1101 and zero preamp loop level controls so it either works with your stuff or it doesn't (luckily it works with the Mark IV but the loop doesn't play well with the Triaxis or Quad preamps probably due to an impedance mismatch or something).

I normally don't get so excited over a multieffect unit as they usually just piss me off with their incompatability with my amps or just the sheer number of menus and seemingly useless parameters but this one works and ,amazingly, does so as advertised.


*End of overly biased opinion of the GSP1101 rant*

Greg
 
I couldn't delete my post above, so I updated it. Extensive thoughts.. check it out.
 
Thanks for the info. Yeah, it's an early '80s unit and are really rare. The unit comes in today (bought it on eBay). I emailed Ibanez to see what they could tell me about it too.
 
Defrag, I like your philosiphy. I am going to go that route. What I'm wondering is this. I have a recto preamp and 2:100 power amp.

I like the idea about true bypass pedals. But what about something like this?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Boss-LS2-Line-SelectorPower-Supply?sku=151369X

And connecting 2 pedals to that, like a chorus and delay or something? That's all I really want.

Now there's this too which has a built in signal buffer. I just wish I knew how to build one of these. I've been soldering for years but don't know about adjustable signal buffers. Anyhow here it is.

http://www.pedalboards.com/true bypass.htm

Also wondering if it's best to run this crap through the preamps effects loop or guitar > bypass strip w/ pedals > preamp input. I have a recto preamp.

This stuff really pisses me off because the reason I bought the mesa amps is because they have knobs. 2 tones. Clean and distortion. I don't understand midi, it's too frign complicated.

Remember Ride the lightening and Kill em all? Simplicity. Two tones on those records. Clean and distortion basically. That's sort of where I'm at.
 
I have an LS-2 & even though it is indeed buffered, Boss makes good quality stuff. There is insignificant tone loss but a TB looper would be even better. Every dB counts. I like Lehle switches too.. check them out. Of course you can make your own... simple & cheap.
 
I'd love to make something like this

bp%20strips.JPG


The one in the middle that would do 4 pedals and also have a built in clean signal booster or whatever you call it.

I don't want to have to spend $400 on the yellow Lehe box.

I don't understand schematics though.

Kevin
 
Back
Top