MK IIc+ v. MK III Blue Stripe

[ouiji1873]

Hey guys, I have a Mark III Blue Stripe and as usual of course I want a IIc+ like everybody else. Until then, how do you think in terms of tone, does the III Blue compare to a IIc+. I usually strive for Metallica tones with my rig and have owned a MK IV in the past, I obviously see more similar tone on a III and IIc+ as I think the IV is a whole other animal. Any insight to make my III more similar to a IIc+ would be appreciated. P.S. what do you guys think of the IIc+ channel on the MK V?

 

[megavoice]

Hi

I've no IIC+ but two redstripes, but I watched some demos of the IIC+ on youtube. I can't find any difference to both of mines.
It is said the bluestripe is more harsh and more agressive and with more gain than all other IIIs. I don't know what kind of mods there could be done. But I advise you to contact Mike B. at MESA. I'm sure he'll offers you a usful solution quickly.
As I know a III+ mod has been done for many times and many years, but people say it'll never sound exactly like a IIC+.

Good Luck

 

[ryjan]

does the III Blue compare to a IIc+. I usually strive for Metallica tones

Joey B's head just exploded. :lol:

 

[lesterpaul]

does the III Blue compare to a IIc+. I usually strive for Metallica tones

Joey B's head just exploded. :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
dude, if you are just a metal player, stick with your III...do NOT buy a C+...why??
1. let old farts like us buy them so we can also use the clean channel
2. if you buy a C+, you automatically enter the exclusive "Snob Mob"..aka the "Doug West Fan Club" :lol:
3. you can get a V as well...and then you will find you have to use the Mk IV mode to sound close to a C+...all the while avoiding channels 1 and 2 like the plague...and that leads us to #4...
4. you will not have to worry about having another " 8 amplifiers on board to express yourself with"-DW

 

[JOEY B.]

does the III Blue compare to a IIc+. I usually strive for Metallica tones

Joey B's head just exploded. :lol:

See, that's where you are wrong. I don't mind someone using a C+ for Metallica sounds(notice I did not use the word TONE). What really chaps my *** is the belief that the C+ can only do that sound. One look at Youtube could lead people to think that this is true. :roll:

 

[JOEY B.]

Take that Blue Stripe, put in the R2 Volume mod, C30 mod, and a Pentode/Triode switch for the Class-A sockets. You will then have a whipass amplifier, for the money. 8)

 

[gts]

does the III Blue compare to a IIc+. I usually strive for Metallica tones

Joey B's head just exploded. :lol:

I love the punk wise asses on this board.
But then again most of them have never played through a C+.
And if/ when they do they'll only use the lead channel
with the Lead Drive at 10
Volume 1 at 10
EQ scooped in the typical "V"
Master 1 and Lead Master set at whatever SPL they can get to before mom and dad tell them to turn it down. :lol:

See, that's where you are wrong. I don't mind someone using a C+ for Metallica sounds(notice I did not use the word TONE). What really chaps my *** is the belief that the C+ can only do that sound. One look at Youtube could lead people to think that this is true. :roll:

So true JB.

Now onto ouiji1873 question(s).

The Metallica sound is not necessarily specific to a C+ - you can pretty much get it with a MkIII.
The biggest difference between the two amps is the C+'s response to ones playing/ pick attack is VERY different than a MkIII.
But for high gain stuff like Metallica sounds as said above you should be able to get there.
Also megavoice' advice is good as well. Contact Mike B at Mesa to discuss the "III+" mod.

 

[ouiji1873]

First off, thanks for the serious posters. My original question was, "What is the BIGGEST difference Between a Mk IIc+ and a Mk III?" As for the all the smart *** comments. I am close to 40 years old and I bought my first Mk IV in about 1992 so no mom and dad are not going to tell me to turn my amp volume down from 10....my wife will. So lets leave it to the serious poster with serious opinions please.

 

[JOEY B.]

I'm 41 years old, and my wife complains about the volume too. WHAT A *****! :evil: I'm **** sure serious, about that. :shock:

 

[lesterpaul]

First off, thanks for the serious posters. My original question was, "What is the BIGGEST difference Between a Mk IIc+ and a Mk III?" As for the all the smart *** comments. I am close to 40 years old and I bought my first Mk IV in about 1992 so no mom and dad are not going to tell me to turn my amp volume down from 10....my wife will. So lets leave it to the serious poster with serious opinions please.

EASY...
its all good, my bro...the search function..(well, you know...)
none of my drool/hi-jacking was directed towards you...I am riding a C+ wave that has been cresting for quite some time-these smart asses are pretty cool asses...if you hang around long enough, they will reveal themselves as pretty "serious" posters as well...along with being the some of the most experienced and knowledgeable cats available...
welcome to the board
...ahh...almost 40 yrs old...I wish I could remember those daze 8)

 

[ouiji1873]

Thanks bro….I guess I should have posted that there were wise assess both figuratively and literarily. I know there is a wealth of knowledge on this board, that’s why I’m here. My idea was that I played Mk IV for most of my life and I wanted to get closer to the c+ tone and the III was my first step. I noticed your moniker is lesterpaul, do you own one, and if you do what is your take?

 

[SonicProvocateur]

Mark III vs. IIC+ ...hmmm, there has to be an opinion about that somewhere around here...

 

[lesterpaul]

Thanks bro….I guess I should have posted that there were wise assess both figuratively and literarily. I know there is a wealth of knowledge on this board, that’s why I’m here. My idea was that I played Mk IV for most of my life and I wanted to get closer to the c+ tone and the III was my first step. I noticed your moniker is lesterpaul, do you own one, and if you do what is your take?

Les Pauls?not sure if you are referring to LP, or C+...
LP is my desert island guitar-I had a Standard,Classic, and Custom(lefties)...they all got hammered/destroyed by an f-5 tornado last April...I have another Classic on the way, and I am hopeful that my Standard can be repaired(headstock snapped off!!)
-being a lefty, I have to take what i can find, but it terms of bottom and sustain, as well as RESALE VALUE,there is nothing like a Paul with a 60's neck...fits my style/techniques perfectly...I have never quite got along with the various stock pups that come in them, so I replace them
for my tastes, I think I always need two Pauls: one equipped with alnico II pups, and one with Alnico V...then I am good to go

-C+....I had a B that was converted to a + by Mike B...simulclass with export tranny, as well as a C+ coliseum...once again, mother nature got them as well...I am sending back to Mike B. for hopeful life saving emergency regenerative surgery!

-the hi jack occured because ryjan's post was sooo funny -for years, the + has become synonymous with "tallica, and there have been quite a few threads through the years that deal with the other side of the C as well...
I did own a IV and had the ability to compare to two other C+ amps that are owned by fellow board members...the feel of the amp was what sold me(the Iv became part of a trade deal for my B+)...in terms of scooped gain metal tones,I could have just stuck with the IV and been fine...the dynamics,response,...feel of the + was really a cut above,esp. in the clean and mid gain settings....
I have played (not owned) various III's...kick *** amps...!I agree with JB...if you play mainly metal and use cleans very little, get the right tubes in a III and go to town!
-there is an investment part of the equation as well...and I can prove it(as much as I hated losing stuff to the twister, it did "pay off" in terms of my insurance settlement..the rarity factor brought me considerably more $$-a mass produced amp would have depreciated)
-I plan to a/b my current C+ with a '65 Fender blackface Deluxe today...that is if I can get out of **** yardwork!

 

[gts]

:lol: :lol:

Now this is a funny post!

Mark III vs. IIC+ ...hmmm, there has to be an opinion about that somewhere around here...

 

[gts]

First off, thanks for the serious posters. My original question was, "What is the BIGGEST difference Between a Mk IIc+ and a Mk III?" As for the all the smart *** comments. I am close to 40 years old and I bought my first Mk IV in about 1992 so no mom and dad are not going to tell me to turn my amp volume down from 10....my wife will. So lets leave it to the serious poster with serious opinions please.

Serious opinions around here cause controversy, with the added potential for cyber stalking and online threats.
Be careful what you ask for.... It could lead to your dismissal ;-) :lol: :lol:

The BIGGEST difference Between a Mk IIc+ and a Mk III is among other things the playing dynamics.

A IIC+ is more organic, responds to pick attack and subtleties in your playing (and to volume knob adjustments).
They are like a Maserati a Lamborghini flying around some curvy windy road.
They handle it all with grace and dexterity. Inside it's a smooth comfortable ride, almost like sitting in the back of a limousine.
When needed they can accelerate and fly on the straight roads, moving like a rocket, and handle the speed and acceleration with the same grace and comfort.
A IIC+ is a versatile machine that can, and does, handle anything thrown in it's path.

A Mark III simply put is like a dragster.
It's a straight shot fast moving mean machine.
Not meant for the curvy roads.

A IIc+ is alive in a way that makes it an instrument in and of itself.
In some ways it's hard to describe but once experienced you'll know right way.
Tone wise there is similarity but playing-wise, they are very different animals.

Some of us have been lucky enough/ blessed enough to be able to own and experience one of these gems.
There are many who have never played one and perhaps due to sour grapes have become naysayers.
So be it, to each his own.

I was skeptical before getting one too.
Very skeptical as the price tag is usually high.
I was asking:
'Could they really be worth THAT much? Is it "hype" or is there something to all this glorifying and praise?'
But once the risk of buying was taken and getting to play it, all doubt was washed away instantly. I'll never go back.
I say this as someone who bought a MkIII directly from Mesa 27+ years ago. I still have that MarkIII. I haven't used it since getting a IIC+ 5 years ago.
I doubt I'll ever go back.

If one was only interested in playing metal a MKIII is a fine machine. More affordable and will work admirably.
But they don't and can't breath like a C+.
Then again metal players want a fire breathing dragon, which a MKIII is with no doubt.
And while a C+ can breath fire with equal force of a MkIII it can do, and does do, so much much much more.....

 

[gts]

One of, if not the best reviews/ comparisons of the IIC+ and III ever posted

Here' the link:
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12447&start=0

Here's the post:

My first time in a band situation with the IIC+ and I was a bit surprised by a few things to say the least. Running the first drive stage at 5 and the master about 4 made for MUCH less volume than my MkIII rig - with far less clean headroom to boot. Putting the master at 4 on the MkIII would be getting antisocial and might get some drumsticks tossed my way, but the IIC+ was not obnoxious at all at this level. I noticed there was a fair amount of grit present, too, where the III stays clear as a bell even jacking the first volume up into the 7 range. The IIC+ seemed to respond much better to pick attack and subtle volume knob or coil tapping changes and was much more fun in this mode when riding the line between clean and a little hairy. The QUALITY of the cleanish tones was also a very pleasant surprise. Where the MkIII is punchy and percussive, the IIC+ has a much sweeter, rounder, and more complex thing happening (crap, I sound like a freakin' wine snob!) and I was really, really happy with this tone. The dynamic response on this amp is really in a different ballpark. On the lead channel, the biggest difference I noticed between the IIC+ and the MkIII's I have been using for a few years is again, the pick response and dynamic characteristics that make playing so much fun. This amp is like a direct extension of my playing intensity - dig in, it barks and screams, back off and caress it a bit and it will sing a sweeter, softer, but still powerfully cool song. There is a certain "sag" to the notes, not such an immediate cannon shot like the III, and the tone was almost 3-D compared to what I am used to. I missed some of the hard-edged clarity of the III on a couple occasions, like when doing a few chord that were using several open strings in a more "complex" voicing (got a bit smeary and cluttered sounding) but just a tiny rolling back of the volume knob fixed that quickly. The singing quality and all the extra hamonic complexity made for a whole new experience that I am eager to dive into again. This amp actually sings! I haven't felt inspired by a piece of gear like this for quite some time.

The funniest part of this tale is how I came to have this opportunity in the first place. I have been through a crapload of Boogie gear in the almost 30 years I have been playing. Nomads, DC's, Maverick, Subways, Studio-Pre and Simul-Sat, etc. Never had a Recto because I didn't think it fit my style. Played a ton of other stuff, too, but kept circling back to the Mark series and the MkIII in particular. After hearing so much about the IIC+ and how "it is totally the Metallica tone, dude!", I figured it was not gonna do MY thing and besides, they are too outrageously expensive now anyways. Well, I strolled into a local shop and found a Simul-Class, E.V. equipped IIC+ with its quad of 415's, looking all cool in cream tolex with a cane grille, and saw an opportunity to flip it based on its seeminly low, low price. Little did I know it was what I had been looking for all this time. Folks, this amp is so much more than the scooped-mid MOP or DT sound, this amp is capable of almost anything and is totally deserving of the mystique that surrounds it. I have never heard an amp that does the tough clean/on the edge of breakup so well, with a lead channel that absolutely wails, then can do a tight, chunky rythmn tone just by backing off the volume a hair and changing your pick attack. Don't think of it as strictly a "metal" amp, because that really does the MkIIC+ a disservice. I wish everyone who wanted one could experience it and make it theirs. It is a musical instrument itself and feels like a direct connection to the expression of my very soul. Needless to say, it is not going anywhere anytime soon.

Sorry to be so long-winded but my mind was truly blown and I had to share with a group that might understand, because my wife just kinda rolls her eyes and says "yeah, I've heard that before". At least she likes the cream/wicker look. :wink: Z

BB posted a very appropriate first response to the above review!

You're one of the few who have testified about the IIC+'s alternate nature.
It's got everything from twang, blues, fusion and insanity.

 

[ryjan]

does the III Blue compare to a IIc+. I usually strive for Metallica tones

Joey B's head just exploded. :lol:

I love the punk wise asses on this board.
But then again most of them have never played through a C+.
And if/ when they do they'll only use the lead channel
with the Lead Drive at 10
Volume 1 at 10
EQ scooped in the typical "V"
Master 1 and Lead Master set at whatever SPL they can get to before mom and dad tell them to turn it down. :lol:

It was a joke because Joeyb always comes in on these threads. No need to get butt-hurt about it. :lol:
And why are you so worried about how someone sets the knobs on THEIR amp?

 

[gts]

It was a joke because Joeyb always comes in on these threads. No need to get butt-hurt about it. :lol:
And why are you so worried about how someone sets the knobs on THEIR amp?

Yeah we all knew it was a joke... But maybe the jokes on you.
Btw there's No "butt hurt" going on here.
And I could give a rats *** how anybody sets the knobs on THEIR amp.

Just offering some insight so someone doesn't waste $3G's when they can get the "sound" they are looking for on a much less expensive model.
Why get a Maserati if you're only going to need a car to drive 20mph a couple miles down the road to the grocery store and back.....
If that's all their gonna do then all they need is a one trick pony.

Btw ryjan do you own or play through any Mesa amps these days?
Your sig gives the impression you're only using and playing through Splawns....

 

[ryjan]

Sorry, I was off my meds this morning.
Nope, I'm Boogie-less right now. I miss the hell out of my Mark IV but I just don't have enough free cash to have more than one amp right now.

 

[ouiji1873]

Thanks guys for all the dialogue. This type of conversation is exactly what I am looking for in this forum in providing me with valuable information. I respect all of your opinions as you all spend enough time to post on an amp forum truly shows your passion with the Mesa Boogie Mark amps. I am typically a more progressive player, but I really like the idea of having that much control over tone with amp response to pick attack. I think I have found a new home here with individuals that have the same respect and passion with these amps. By the way…my wife is really pissed at all of you since your words are encouraging me to invest in a $3500 amp.