Mesa MarkV / Saturation 'mod'

[Markageddon]

Interesting, I will give this a tryout at the weekend too!

Greatness awaits..!! 8) Sounds great on all modes and settings so far. EDGE and MARK 1 modes included.
Crunch has more to it for sure, (bigger, smoother, more gain) and the cleans are still high level quality.
And like the other modes, it's mid are rich, crunchy and smooth to the right balance to my ear also.
This is all with Fx loop engaged, which back in the day used to turdify things a little.

Do let us know what you thought!

 

[bandit2013]

Glass should be all you need. Hard mods should be a last resort.

 

[Markageddon]

Glass should be all you need. Hard mods should be a last resort.

Absolutely. Just for anyone reading this who might not have been aware: The head I have is definitely post whatever changes went on since my initial combo in the 800s/pre2011...can very well imagine that something else may have been needed to get the same effect. So those hardmods will always be useful for a lot of people..! Would be interested to hear how that tube line up works (or doesnt work) for you with the already hard modded amps....!

 

[Wayno]

Interesting, I will give this a tryout at the weekend too!

Greatness awaits..!! 8) Sounds great on all modes and settings so far. EDGE and MARK 1 modes included.
Crunch has more to it for sure, (bigger, smoother, more gain) and the cleans are still high level quality.
And like the other modes, it's mid are rich, crunchy and smooth to the right balance to my ear also.
This is all with Fx loop engaged, which back in the day used to turdify things a little.

Do let us know what you thought!

Snuck out to the garage this evening!!!

I dig it man, still tweaking settings but damn, sounds good.
Done a quick vid of just noodling around, very quiet in 10w so as not to piss my neighbours off (everyone's got their windows open as its warm).

Modes in the vid;

Tweed
Tweed clean boost
Edge
Edge clean boost
iiC+ with EQ

https://drive.google.com/open?id=14up4jJF6NdyD44xaDG87HGH6Fxk0RV6R

 

[Markageddon]

Nice...! For 10 watt, combo speaker and quietly in a big open space thats really good and a tribute to the no-icepick thing for sure.
Thought it sounded good and fitting as it already is on the AC/DC and Foo fighters rifs. GnR too. But wait til you get a speaker cab on it and start hitting it hard with gain...!!!

 

[Wayno]

Nice...! For 10 watt, combo speaker and quietly in a big open space thats really good and a tribute to the no-icepick thing for sure.
Thought it sounded good and fitting as it already is on the AC/DC and Foo fighters rifs. GnR too. But wait til you get a speaker cab on it and start hitting it hard with gain...!!!

Yeah i hear ya. Was a little gainy really with those settings, I always find 10w seems just a little more saturated than 45 and 90w. Is the extra class A harmonic content i guess. Ch 2 and 3 need a bit of tweaking still but will sound awesome though the 2x12 i've no doubt at all. Just loving tweed though, really fun to pay.

 

[Markageddon]

Tweeds how mine is set right now too. Yeah Sounds great, plays great...! Your next band rehearsal will be epic.. Especially on heavier numbers. "Unnnnnlimitttttttttttttted powwwwwerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...!!!" :twisted:

 

[bandit2013]

I will have to give the 12AT7 in the V7 position a try. Many Mark III users have done this (or have seen someone post it at least once). I do have a few 12AT7 to try , Mesa, RFT, and JAN. Will see what works. May have to remove a jumper mod but will leave it in just for fun. I learned the hard way, do not remove parts from the tone stack.... C39 on the other hand is not an essential component but does take some mids and treble out only to be added back in with the high gain in the upper boundary of V4B. I personally prefer C39 out but that is me. The GEQ mod, I think I like it as it has improved the CH2 a bit. As for the V6A mod, that is subjective. Running a V30 cab it sounds great but may remove it and see how it sounds without. The 12AT7 in V7 may be great, I did try the JAN/GE 5751 in just about every conceivable position when I first got one. May install one in V1 just for kicks. If and when I get to it, I will give my response in what works or does not with the hard mods. I am curious what happens to Extreme mode on CH3.

 

[Markageddon]

V1 AT7 took off too much gain going in the front end when I tried that IIRC.
It might be to your preference though, for all I know.

Yes the III was a great indicator that it was worth a go. Intuition works wonders sometimes. And the gut screamed at me for ages to give it a go, just took a while to be bothered enough to go to the trouble of taking one out of the V25 to try it.
If you'd tried AT7 V7 before sure the effect could easily have been missed without the V4 one in AND the high powered V1 tube too.


Will be interesting to hear how the different makes of AT7 affect your amp compared to each other.
Plus yours is the most heavily modded amp here, so you can be canary in the coalmine for Mods+this config.

Gonna set the V25 up with the same config this week coming. Will let you all know how it went.

Extreme is truly worthy of the name full on savagery with gain levels that you would expect. The extra dialling room it affords the preamp is key in dialling it in. Each channel gets to thrive in its differences wheich are best explored through the different abilities and limits dialling wise, not just flicking the channel switch. Extreme's asset seems to be that you can dial full gain, dial mid to 12 oclock, dial 12-2 on bass with full treble and its a massive end of the world lowend gain tight enough to not fart out.
Bit like this original mod, but just moreso. Its mids are massive and smooth as well as aggressive. The power amp seems to like it better too, as there are less harsh frequencies for it to be putting out in the 1st place. I love this mode, even though before any this modding it felt too sterile to me. But now its a liquidy organic vintage feel, but on steroids. Very heavy steroids.

 

[bandit2013]

The canary died. :shock: the 12AT7 in V7 was a bust no matter what flavor was tried. Jan/Phillips, RFT or Mesa. I even removed the V6A jumper mod so all that was left was the GEQ mod and the C39 removal mod. the V6A jumper mod to couple the two sets of bypass capacitors was ok for IIC+ and Mark IV but it took too much away from Extreme (which is what I prefer most of the time). I felt the lump sum of 19uF was a bit overkill as I had thought it would be. I was planning on removing it anyway as I had not had the opportunity to hear it with just the GEQ fix. That initself makes CH2 a bit more forward but not by much. I ran through my box of preamp tubes from Mullard long plate, Tung Sol, Beijing, JAN 5751, Mullard CV4004, EHX12AX7 Preferred series 7025 and what ever else was in the box that was a 12AX7 type. 12AT7 in V4 and V7, not much of a win for me. That seemed to thin out the overall tone. Mesa stocker in V7 was the best, even better than the Sovtek LPS. Keep in mind, my amp has suffered from an identity crisis ever since its first failure 6 years ago, when I bought it. JAN/Phillips 12AT7 in V4 is the win for all. Also tried the mix of tubes in the V6 position before and after removal of the jumper mod. Note if you had done this and want to remove it, cut the lead that is soldered into the via and then use a solder iron to remove the welded part on the capacitor. Best to keep the via in tact. The lead in the via will not cause any issues as long as it is not touching anything. After all that I spend almost an hour swapping in tubes in the V2 positon. Could not decide on the Preferred (Chinese) 7025 or the 1990 Mesa branded Beijing tube. I have a NOS Beijing in V3 as it seems to be quiet and no hum effect that I was getting with the Russian tubes. Mesa stocker is good there too but CH1 was noisy. I have run all Beijing tubes in the amp before and that provided the quietest noise floor but like the dark overtones I get from the Mesa tubes in V7, V6, V5 and V1. Tung Sol in V1 was not bad but not ideal. I used the horizontal 212 cab as the load and bench mark for tuning the amp with preamp tubes. Time to stuff the chassis back into its combo shell and warm up the EV a bit.

Not saying one would like the change in character with the 12AT7 in V7 but that just did not work out for me. 12AT7 in V6 was ok but took away a bit of level. 5751 was not bad there either but Mesa stocker 12AX7 seemed to give me the character I desire. It was worth trying since it gave me reason to wipe off the dust and fire the Mark V up since it has been nothing more than a carpet press for a while now. Come to think of it, that seems to be the case with the other amps since my back injury two weeks ago. Much better now so better get off the lasy wagon and vibrate the house again. My neighbors thought I died as it was all too quiet.

 

[Wayno]

Fire em up and let your neighbours know you're still alive and kicking Bandit.

Like always, everyones mileage will vary. AT7 in V7 worked well for me with all three hard mods as well. I should have recorded the sovtek lps as well before i swapped it out. Nevermind. Wasn't a night and day difference for me, but then my amp is far from stock so not surprising. Did allow me to open up the output volume just a little more though. Not sure how much or little this helps but maybe the higher the output volume the less it drags down the preceeding and following stages? Not sure, everythings inter-dependant in a tube amp so will have some effect i'm sure.

My tube layout is as follows,

V1 - Tungsol ax7
V2 - Mesa ax7
V3 - Sylvania ax7
V4 - Jan GE at7
V5 - Mesa ax7
V6 - Sylvania ax7
V7 - Jan GE at7

Currently running Mesa 6l6gc for power. Believe they are the original tubes that shipped with the amp though. The amp is early release, serial 8##. Either way they are at least 6 years old (thats how long i've had the amp) so probably due for replacement. But still sound good. My el34's are 3 years old, have been fairly regularly gigged at high volumes as well so they're probably fairly spent too. Mute point though, zero disposable income so no new toys on the horizon. Looking forward to trying the TAD 6l6 Apeman recommended when i eventually get a chance to. Or maybe some 6ca7's.

Looking forward to next band practice to see how she reacts to the 2x12.

 

[bandit2013]

Fire em up and let your neighbours know you're still alive and kicking Bandit.

Like always, everyones mileage will vary. AT7 in V7 worked well for me with all three hard mods as well. I should have recorded the sovtek lps as well before i swapped it out. Nevermind. Wasn't a night and day difference for me, but then my amp is far from stock so not surprising. Did allow me to open up the output volume just a little more though. Not sure how much or little this helps but maybe the higher the output volume the less it drags down the preceeding and following stages? Not sure, everythings inter-dependant in a tube amp so will have some effect i'm sure.

My tube layout is as follows,

V1 - Tungsol ax7
V2 - Mesa ax7
V3 - Sylvania ax7
V4 - Jan GE at7
V5 - Mesa ax7
V6 - Sylvania ax7
V7 - Jan GE at7

Currently running Mesa 6l6gc for power. Believe they are the original tubes that shipped with the amp though. The amp is early release, serial 8##. Either way they are at least 6 years old (thats how long i've had the amp) so probably due for replacement. But still sound good. My el34's are 3 years old, have been fairly regularly gigged at high volumes as well so they're probably fairly spent too. Mute point though, zero disposable income so no new toys on the horizon. Looking forward to trying the TAD 6l6 Apeman recommended when i eventually get a chance to. Or maybe some 6ca7's.

Looking forward to next band practice to see how she reacts to the 2x12.

Wayno,
Do you have a combo? And if so does it sport the MC90? If that is the case perhaps the 12AT7 in V7 keeps you from cone breakup, for some reason I could not mary into the C90, if it sounded good something was wrong later on like the dust cap separating (done that to two speakers already, the one that came in the combo shell, and the replacment speaker I bought as I was thinking of selling the amp). I still have a good one but it is in the packaging the replacment speaker came in, removed it from the 1x12 open back widebody cab that I suffed the OTR speaker into. I may shove the Redback into that cab and abuse it with the JP-2C. That speaker takes a beating quite well. May end up taking out the EV in the deep 1x12 and stick it in the widebody cab just for fun. The Sylvaina ax7 is probably the magic, must be nice having some NOS 12AX7. May have to get some and see how they sound.

 

[bandit2013]

V1 AT7 took off too much gain going in the front end when I tried that IIRC.
It might be to your preference though, for all I know.

:shock:

A JAN/GE 5751 is nothing like the JAN 12AT7. That tube will work on V1 without any dramatic gain loss. It can be bright though depending on what amp you use it in. A 12AT7 in V1, may not be ideal.


the only tube amp that comes to mind that works when loaded with 12AT7 is the Carvin V3MC. I would not recommend that for a Mesa amp though.

 

[Markageddon]

V1 AT7 took off too much gain going in the front end when I tried that IIRC.
It might be to your preference though, for all I know.

:shock:

A JAN/GE 5751 is nothing like the JAN 12AT7. That tube will work on V1 without any dramatic gain loss. It can be bright though depending on what amp you use it in. A 12AT7 in V1, may not be ideal.


the only tube amp that comes to mind that works when loaded with 12AT7 is the Carvin V3MC. I would not recommend that for a Mesa amp though.

Hahahaha Sorry mate, for some reason I read that before as you having said 'AT7'. My mistake.

 

[Wayno]

Fire em up and let your neighbours know you're still alive and kicking Bandit.

Like always, everyones mileage will vary. AT7 in V7 worked well for me with all three hard mods as well. I should have recorded the sovtek lps as well before i swapped it out. Nevermind. Wasn't a night and day difference for me, but then my amp is far from stock so not surprising. Did allow me to open up the output volume just a little more though. Not sure how much or little this helps but maybe the higher the output volume the less it drags down the preceeding and following stages? Not sure, everythings inter-dependant in a tube amp so will have some effect i'm sure.

My tube layout is as follows,

V1 - Tungsol ax7
V2 - Mesa ax7
V3 - Sylvania ax7
V4 - Jan GE at7
V5 - Mesa ax7
V6 - Sylvania ax7
V7 - Jan GE at7

Currently running Mesa 6l6gc for power. Believe they are the original tubes that shipped with the amp though. The amp is early release, serial 8##. Either way they are at least 6 years old (thats how long i've had the amp) so probably due for replacement. But still sound good. My el34's are 3 years old, have been fairly regularly gigged at high volumes as well so they're probably fairly spent too. Mute point though, zero disposable income so no new toys on the horizon. Looking forward to trying the TAD 6l6 Apeman recommended when i eventually get a chance to. Or maybe some 6ca7's.

Looking forward to next band practice to see how she reacts to the 2x12.

Wayno,
Do you have a combo? And if so does it sport the MC90? If that is the case perhaps the 12AT7 in V7 keeps you from cone breakup, for some reason I could not mary into the C90, if it sounded good something was wrong later on like the dust cap separating (done that to two speakers already, the one that came in the combo shell, and the replacment speaker I bought as I was thinking of selling the amp). I still have a good one but it is in the packaging the replacment speaker came in, removed it from the 1x12 open back widebody cab that I suffed the OTR speaker into. I may shove the Redback into that cab and abuse it with the JP-2C. That speaker takes a beating quite well. May end up taking out the EV in the deep 1x12 and stick it in the widebody cab just for fun. The Sylvaina ax7 is probably the magic, must be nice having some NOS 12AX7. May have to get some and see how they sound.

Yeah I have the MC90 loaded combo. That's what you're hearing in the little vid I just did. Don't use the combo speaker when playing with my band though, I just have my vert 2x12 connected for that. The combo is fine for home playing but much prefer the 2x12 for live, louder stuff. Hopefully my singer and bass player are going to make me a nice walnut head shell to put the Mark V chassis in. Then I'll keep the combo shell and MC90 speaker as a pseudo cab for home use. Speakers are such a big influence over the whole sound, often overlooked by many.

Yeah the Sylvanias are very nice, subtle but definitely creamier when pushed hard. Originally bought them for my old Marshall Valvestate, that had one 12ax7 in the preamp. Not much difference at all in that amp, not a very nice sounding amp at all unfortunately. They really work well in the Mark V though. Would like to get some more NOS tubes but the budget just won't allow it currently.

 

[Markageddon]

Ha had an 8080, still have a VS100. (Lent out)
Great days....

This tube line up is still awesome, days later.... despite plenty of experimentation..!!

 

[Wayno]

Cool, I currently have my bass players 8080 on my bench half dead. Gonna get it back to Marshall HQ as its beyond me to fix. Also got another friends 40watter half dead under the bench i havn't got round to looking at yet. No doubt that will be beyond me too! They're both good sounding amps, not sure of the age of the 8080 but i know for sure the 40watter was one of the original valvestate lineup. That was by far the best sounding, and most expensive, amp in my circle of metallica and nirvana obsessed friends. He used to slave it into a noname 80watt bass combo! Sounded massive! As i've stated before in this epic thread, I never bonded with the valvestate, I had the 2000 series AVT275. Loud but not nice.

Had another couple hours with the V yesterday and she's dialled in nicely for 90w with a bit more volume than i had in the vid from the other day. Shame my PC's dead as i would record it properly if i could. Got band practice on thursday night and i think we're gonna record it for progress reference. If so i'll post it up. Will probably be a sh!tty quality recording though, we'll see...

 

[Markageddon]

Cool..! Im picking up tubes tommorrow and aim to eventually make a brief V:25 and V vid both comparing with the same mods. Maybe close mic it and room sound cam it if I can cause each is it's definite own thing. IV mode will have to be renamed 'unholy sonic violence mode' at this rate. If this like the hardmods effects, (More front gain, refinement later on) then I can see why you guys swear by them. I admit that the Graphic EQ mod has my interest. But pretty happy right now. And Ive not even put a tubescreamer/booster near it yet.....

 

[bandit2013]

There is that point in trial and error you cant rewind from. Keep to the glass only mod. Saves you the hassle of making changes and then find out you do not like it. Other than the C39 removal (leave it there or remove it, that is up to you). I would at least try the GEQ mod. That does not kill the extreme mode on CH3. V6 mod, on the fence on that one. I took it out of my amp and much prefer the angry beast on all voices vs a bit of offset on the Extreme voice. The 150 ohm (or higher but not higher than 1k) was a better mod than the 15 ohm or just a jumper wire. That one mod you can leave out. As for the GEQ, the only chagne to note was on CH2, even with the EQ off, the signal still passes though that part of the circuit. It is not dramatic but enough to be noticed. I had thought the EV speaker had some lag to it that is in my combo, now it seems more forward.

CH3 sounds much the same but it has been a while so a before and after recording would have been a good idea.

 

[Markageddon]

Yeah I don't much fancy the other hardmod, so happy to see that you concur. The graphic on the Mark III is more my cup of tea, but I guess that only has to do for one Lead channel...otherwise I'd love it to have the response of the Mark III's graphic. But already it feels like it has more to play with coming at it from the newly dialled pre section.... Truly mountainous tone achieved with that extra dialling headroom and gain full whack and bass at 2 0'clock and its tight still. On IIC+..!! Same With Mark IV too, but I dial back the gain to 2-3oclock.