Mesa F100 Tone Problems - FIXED

[MPenny]

Hello all. I've been looking all over for some sort of help, so I decided to register. I have a lot to say, so thank you to those who stick around to help.

I bought my f100 back around november. I am using a b-52 at412 cabinet. All the reviews I have read say that this is the perfect cabinet for heavy music. It handles bass well, etc.... Anyway, since I gotten the f100, I have yet to be happy with the sound im getting from it. I dont know much on tubes, as I sold my last tube amp before I had to replace them. I do not know if its my head or my cabinet, but the sound I get from it is not very pleasing to me. I guess what Im trying to say, is that it has a really raw, and gritty sound, not very smooth sounding. I keep thinking its because of my settings or my cabinet, but if this just the sound, then I can stop worrying about it!

I love the of the regular crunch channel. I love the darker sound of it. However, I dont like how much midrange is on it. I prefer the sound of the contour channel, however to my ears, the channel sounds really bright and really harsh on the ears when standing right in front of it. Standing behind it sounds fine, anywhere else. But when standing in front of it at a show, i've tried to make the contour channel sound darker. I've turned up the midrange, the bass, Turned the treble ALL the way down, and still, nothing. Does anybody have any kind of clue what im talking about? To those with different cabinets, is it still a brighter channel that does not seem can be adjusted? I have no clue what tubes are in it. I do now know if they are mesa's or not. I did buy it used. But in FLAWLESS condition, for $530.

Also, regarding the treble knob, is it just mine, or does this knob not seem to do very much on the crunch channels? I notice it when its all the way up, but really from 0 until about 7 or 8 it does not seem like theres really a wide range of tone, unlike the clean channel treble knob.

And finally, I was really surprised at the low amount of gain on this amp. I spoke to another mesa user and he informed me that they are not the gain machine most people think. I have not played any other model so I do not know. Is this the general feeling? I feel that if you play a fairly heavy style of music, you would almost have to have a low overdrive on top of it to boost it.

Im sorry for all of my inexperience and questions. I figured this was the best place to ask. I hope you all can help me.

thanks,
Matt

 

[Kikkoman]

I've only had my F-50 for a few weeks, so unfortunately I'm not able to recommend different speakers or tubes. I also don't know how similar the F-50 and F-100 are sound-wise.

But I think I know what you mean when you describe the sound of the 2nd channel. It's definitely not a smooth sound on it's own. Tone is always difficult to describe with words, but I think our experiences are pretty similar. To my ears, the F-50 has a gritty midrange character to it, and it's impossible to dial it out with the EQ. It's almost as if the distortion would be completely unaffected by the EQ knobs, and the only control you have over the OD is the gain knob.

However, that gritty character really makes my F-50 stand out when playing with a band. To be honest, I don't really like to play the amp when I'm practicing alone (got a Tech21 for that). But I found that with a band, all the grittiness is pretty much smoothed out, and the result is a really musical tone that cuts through, no matter what. I must add that we don't play metal, and I also don't think the F-50 would be a good choice for that type of music. The low end just seems to be too loose, no matter what you do. Also, the amp is unbelieveably loud, and in my experience it doesn't really sound too good at low volumes.

One thing you could try is an EQ pedal in the effects loop. That way you can have total control of the tone after the whole preamp section, and I suspect it might be a good way to tame some of that harsh midrange.

 

[giorikas81]

Hello. First of all I am not really sure about the b-52 cab. Does it have V30's in it.

Secondly and most important the f100 is not a typical eq wise marshall style amp. Try settings that you would not normally try:like treble almost full, mid zero bass zero. You will also find out that the eq pots also "dumbs" more gain into the mix the more you open them up. Think of em as "gain emphasis" control. As a result, much like the mark series amps if you re using a humbucker guitar, the bass for me only stays at zero, or a tiny bit turned up(like 1/10...)

Also you got a 6L6 amp. For me it is rather fuzzy and muddy until you get it going...So an attenuator with such a loud amp is probably a must. But because it is a preamp based amp try reducing the volume through the loop: put a volmue control pedal (or a multi effect) in the loop not for effects but to lower the output much like a final master control. Then open the second channel master at least over 9 o clock. You will drive the preamp tubes harder and probably get a better sound always regarding lower volumes. But your amp is insanely loud...so it may even help in a band thing.

 

[fishyfishfish]

Do you have a F100 Head or combo? You might look into getting new power tubes. That is, if the amp sounds flat/ lifeless, flubby bass.ext.
Next I would try replacing V1 in the preamp section. You might have a less than flattering pre amp tube.
The F100 is a very loud amp. You should be at gig volume around 9:00 on the master. That would be a good indicator if your power tubes are on the way out. As far as the EQ, you can download the manual from Mesa's website and start with the settings they have. Also, when you have the "Contour" on, it acts like a pre-set global EQ with a little more gain and scooped mids. Boogies are loud beasts designed for big stages, so most of the older Mark type amps (especially in the 100 watt range) are not very bedroom friendly. Nothing to worry about, many of my friends who have F50's 100's and such use a good distortion pedal to use at home/low volume and at the gig open the amp up and use the pedal as a solo boost. Hope this helps.

 

[MPenny]

Its the head version. I dont know what speakers are in the cabinet, but I am fairly sure they are not celestions. B-52 offers a cab with C-V30's, but this is not that cab. I was told by somebody else to replace the v1 tube. I dont know much about tubes, so I am not really sure what to upgrade/replace it with. I very much like the scooped sound and increased gain, but I think the mids are scooped a little too much in my opinion. Im going to try to play on contour but with the mid knob around 1 or 2 o'clock to see if that helps anything. I have a dimarzio tone zone in my main guitar I use, and that has a really good amount of midrange. Actually its one of the highest mid range frequencies I found on a dimarzio pickup. I try to keep the gain around noon or 1 o clock. I never like to play with full gain. I think it loses some of its character when you have it past 2 o clock.

Kikkoman, I believe we are on similar pages. Channel 2 w/o contour definitely has a mid range crunch to it that seems to be present no matter if the mids are turned down or not. It seems to me its either one of the other. Not much in between I dont believe.

It definitely is not a bedroom amp. The amp definitely needs to be on at least 9 o'clock before it sounds good, and 9 o'clock in a bedroom is likely to blow out windows with how loud it is! From some of the sound clips I've heard, my amp sounds similar. So I guess its just how its supposed to sound. I guess when it comes down to it, its just not really what I wanted it to sound like.

 

[fishyfishfish]

Sorry to hear about that. I have a F30 that I thought sounded ugly till I spent some serious time with it. I liked the "Metal" tone out of it, but for anything else it really didn't fit the bill. My friend who has a F50 felt the same way, so for more of a variety started using pedals for gain and ran the amp clean (Which is where this amp can't be beat!). So with two drive pedals and the channels of the amp you get a four channel amp. As for the tubes, they are very easy to change out and experiment with. I would suggest learning all you can about tubes and tube amps if you play one just for the fact that 99% of the time any problem in a tube amp is tube related, besides it will save you a ton of cash from going to the tech with every glitch. Peace!

 

[MPenny]

I will do that. Its been a few weeks since I was told about the v1 tube. I believe they said it was the one closest to the power supply or something like that? Also, if all of the pre-amp tubes are the same, why is the v1 so important? I tried to do a search on google on pre-amp tube characteristics but couldnt find anything like a chart. Im just looking for a dark high gain pre-amp tube. Im going to swap out the power tubes here in a few days, so hopefully that will give me an opportunity to learn more.

 

[peedenmark7]

I agree with all that has been said here about the f-100.
I have both the 100 and the 50 , and will say the 100 is a bit midrangey for my marshall ears and it takes some time playing around with this series to find yours sweet spot.
the 50 at least to me seems more balanced tonally and is by farand away a more forgiving amp to work with... yet they are both not bedroom friendly amps

this is the first mesa that " I've found " that has the gain voicing I like as well as retaining some very nice cleans... so I am working with it and growing every day to appreciate it more.

I vastly prefer the countour switch to the channel 2 plain jane mesa gain, though it has its place..
the contour is not pure rectifier gain [which I hate] but its over the top of say a marshall jubilee's gain which I like.

you have lots of options for your tube in the v1 slot... I have always gravitated to a vintage mullard in my older marshalls... but in a mesa this may add more of the midrange honk you and I both are not wanting. if you want a tube thats a bit brighter and cleaner find your self a vintage RCA 7025 basically the military spec of a 12ax7.

you'll find them to be ultra quiet, and much gnarly than the stock tube. it may be what youre needing, if not....keep experimenting.

I run my f100 with a mesa traditional cab which has v-30s... yet it sounds night and day different than my marshall jubilee slant cab with vintage 30's... I know mesa builds a much stronger cab than marshall, and they also have their celestion v-30s made to their spec. so I am sure that is also key....
I do however prefer my head with the marshall cab, which seems to trim the mids some right off the bat.

I read somewhere that some guys connect/bridge the effects loop with a modified cable and use the effects loop mix as another master vol.
if someone here knows of this trick please share as I cant remember the details of how its done.. but I made the cable and went to my local store about 3 years ago when first trying af100 halfstack and it was kind of cool.

 

[MPenny]

Thank you for all your suggestions guys. I appreciate your guys' time. But alas, I have figured out why my tone was so displeasing. While the contour channel is till a little bright for my taste, I know longer have this ugly midrange, gritty overtone that i hated for all these months. Perhaps I should have stated beforehand that I run a pedalboard in front of my amp. It has gone from 8 pedals, to 5 pedals. Some of the pedals were causing the ugly gritty tone I was getting. Specifically the boss sd-1. And Im not talking about when the pedal was engaged. Because the pedal was not true bypass, it still affected my sound a lot even when it was not on. I also removed my Boss LS-2. I found that the signal volume knobs also greatly affected the sound. Since the higher the volume on the knob the more gain was added, of course it was not natural gain either, so I think that was part of the problem.

Many of you are probably thinking "this guy is an idiot for not checking that first!" And you're probably right. But I've always taken my pedalboard to all of my amps without really listening to the natural sound before. And I think its way more noticable on a high end amp rather than a mid level amp like my previous one. I also got my power tubes replaced. The old tubes were 6l6 430's, but now they've upgraded to 440's and are supposed to be better I guess. But they sound amazing and I dont even need an overdrive pedal now anyway with the better sounding distortion I have now. I swore by that boss overdrive pedal since I got it. It would be such a nice pedal if it was true bypass.

But Im still looking into replacing the pre-amp tubes soon, and i'll remember what you guys' said about the v1 tube.

 

[fishyfishfish]

Send the pedal to Keely and have him fix it up for you.

 

[giorikas81]

With that many pedals, I would suggest some kind of looper to bypass them alltogether...

You re right some pedals can drown or ruin your signal when disengaged.

I would like to commend on some things. First when I got my f-30 I actually found out that, live it does not "accept" many guitars, even though some of them were really expensive. Les pauls did not sound really good. Fender guitars on the other hand fantastic! Alnico pickups? Sucked. Ceramic cutting? Oh yeah!!! Bass heavy mid heavy guitars? Not on this (pre)-amp.

Also if you change tubes forget V1. In these amps V2 is the first tube the signal hits. V1 is added cascaded in the lead channel. As a result V2 is the "archetyped sound influencer" in this circuit.

 

[Tmuggie]

Also if you change tubes forget V1. In these amps V2 is the first tube the signal hits. V1 is added cascaded in the lead channel. As a result V2 is the "archetyped sound influencer" in this circuit.

Is this true??

 

[elvis]

Yes, V2 comes first in the signal chain.