Mark V 90 watt tube rolling

[bandit2013]

I appreciate that. Good to hear what others have experienced with the newer units.
Oh, by the way, the Extreme mode does not disconnect any of the feedback circuit, It only alters it. Same with the Rectifier amps for modern. If that feedback circuit was really disconnected, it would be bright as all hell. Hmm, could it be... no, I have full control on the presence and that is actually in the negative feedback circuit and does not to a false function like the Rectifier (except modern) or Triple Crown (high pass filter).

As for mine, it was ice pick such that to corrected killed everything. bright switch off, treble and presence dialed out and gain at 9am. I believe the one mod I did to the output of the GEQ helped to fix that problem. I just connected the two points that are switched by relay with a 10K resistor, or was it a 3.3k resistor. I don't remember. It is somewhere burried in that saturation mod thread. The C39, was restored but with a 12pF cap vs the 120pF and I think the same for the other on V6A. Been a long time.

I still want to explore the STR440 in the class A sockets. Heck, may even try the SED =C= 6L6GC instead. They work in the V but in the JP2C they sounded bright. At the moment, my V is out of the way but still accessible. I am still hooked on running two Badlanders in stereo. I did a tri-amp setup with the JP2C and

My V just never wowed me until I tried the STR441, much better but still prefer the SED =C=. I just have to break away from NOS tubes ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$). OK, I have NOS power tubes in the JP but the STR448 is the next best thing.

 

[bandit2013]

Do you think I should go with a different color when ordering the STR448's? Grey, like you say, is the next step cooler. I think I can go with another color up or down safely, yes?

Blues would be the hottest unless they have whites.
low to high: red, yellow, green, gray, blue, white.

The greens are more center than the gray if white is off the books. I never came across any blue 6L6 tubes so it is uncertain how it would sound. Gray or green would middle ground. I think that is what was giving me grief when I tried those in the MWDR, Roadster, and Mark V. The gray is hot but not as hot as blue. by how much , have no clue. Mesa claims we should not be able to notice a difference between the color codes of a given tube. If the amp has abundance in the low end, a hotter tube may sound muddy. Too cold it will be sterile and blah. Green is the safe bet but gray is good too, just too much for the other amps that would sound better with a red or yellow but my experience with color codes is the STR440 as that is what Mesa used for all 6L6 amps.

 

[bandit2013]

Thanks for the info on the Mark V:90 gain stages for each channel.

Still curious how the VII compares to the V for clean, crunch and IIc+ and IV! Seems a lot of the initial hype on the VII has died down now.

I am more curious how it compares to the JP2C loaded with the STR415 tubes. I think there were some videos comparing the VII to a few other Mesa amps.

 

[timothymartin220]

I appreciate that. Good to hear what others have experienced with the newer units.
Oh, by the way, the Extreme mode does not disconnect any of the feedback circuit, It only alters it. Same with the Rectifier amps for modern. If that feedback circuit was really disconnected, it would be bright as all hell. Hmm, could it be... no, I have full control on the presence and that is actually in the negative feedback circuit and does not to a false function like the Rectifier (except modern) or Triple Crown (high pass filter).

As for mine, it was ice pick such that to corrected killed everything. bright switch off, treble and presence dialed out and gain at 9am. I believe the one mod I did to the output of the GEQ helped to fix that problem. I just connected the two points that are switched by relay with a 10K resistor, or was it a 3.3k resistor. I don't remember. It is somewhere burried in that saturation mod thread. The C39, was restored but with a 12pF cap vs the 120pF and I think the same for the other on V6A. Been a long time.

I still want to explore the STR440 in the class A sockets. Heck, may even try the SED =C= 6L6GC instead. They work in the V but in the JP2C they sounded bright. At the moment, my V is out of the way but still accessible. I am still hooked on running two Badlanders in stereo. I did a tri-amp setup with the JP2C and

My V just never wowed me until I tried the STR441, much better but still prefer the SED =C=. I just have to break away from NOS tubes ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$). OK, I have NOS power tubes in the JP but the STR448 is the next best thing.

The negative feedback thing was an interview i saw with Randall Smith where he talked about the V and thats what HE said...they removed the negative feedback on extreme mode like they did in the rectifier...that was the exact comment...so even if it is by degrees or what have you...THAT one can be attributed to the owner of Mesa (or former as it were). What I CAN tell you is the effect you get in extreme mode that changes it from the mark iv mode is ALL power section and that change is present when you use the amp as a power amp....so if it aint removing negative feedback it is ONE HELL of a lot of difference no matter what amp it is applied to!!! THAT WAS MY point!!!

 

[timothymartin220]

I appreciate that. Good to hear what others have experienced with the newer units.
Oh, by the way, the Extreme mode does not disconnect any of the feedback circuit, It only alters it. Same with the Rectifier amps for modern. If that feedback circuit was really disconnected, it would be bright as all hell. Hmm, could it be... no, I have full control on the presence and that is actually in the negative feedback circuit and does not to a false function like the Rectifier (except modern) or Triple Crown (high pass filter).

As for mine, it was ice pick such that to corrected killed everything. bright switch off, treble and presence dialed out and gain at 9am. I believe the one mod I did to the output of the GEQ helped to fix that problem. I just connected the two points that are switched by relay with a 10K resistor, or was it a 3.3k resistor. I don't remember. It is somewhere burried in that saturation mod thread. The C39, was restored but with a 12pF cap vs the 120pF and I think the same for the other on V6A. Been a long time.

I still want to explore the STR440 in the class A sockets. Heck, may even try the SED =C= 6L6GC instead. They work in the V but in the JP2C they sounded bright. At the moment, my V is out of the way but still accessible. I am still hooked on running two Badlanders in stereo. I did a tri-amp setup with the JP2C and

My V just never wowed me until I tried the STR441, much better but still prefer the SED =C=. I just have to break away from NOS tubes ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$). OK, I have NOS power tubes in the JP but the STR448 is the next best thing.

Actually also...you said if it removed the negative feedback it would get brighter...but doesnt it?...The channel (*at least mine )gets a whole lot brighter/deeper/louder, and there is an articulation or clarity there that wasnt there before (not something you cannot do without , but cool flavor.(to me and my understanding of what negative feedback is it sure sounds to me like it has at least been partially removed for sure!!!)..like a 290 having modern and deep..IN FACT...I run my pre (whatever...triaxis...JCM200, Mark V) to my G Force, back to my TSL loop return and the cab....the Deep switch and presence are set for what I want...deep when I am using the Mark V in extreme mode and off when I am using the amp in any other mode...it give me the same thing as you get with the 290 (maybe even a little more because the Marshall has an el34 power section and the Mesa has the 6l6..it IS a nice mix too!! and yes I DID run el34 in both but the el34/6l6 combo is more interesting...as much as I have always wanted a 290 because then you can get a midi and have all this at the push of one footswitch...but since i AM poor this works for me ...right now I am getting something together with a former Elvis Impersonator...He and I are mixing genres (I am Metal/Prog and he is 50's oldies)...HE thought I was nuts until we got together ..he got it after ONE sitting!!!!! Actually he was pretty quick, ten minutes after meeting he said ****...it DOES work...I thought you were out of your mind!!!

 

[bandit2013]

Saying it gets removed is easier than explaining how it really works.

Dual Rec, all voices except for modern have a fixed negative feedback circuit, nothing adjustable. What is labeled as presence is just a high pass filter. That is it. However, in modern mode, the fixed negative feeback circuit does get disconnected. So there is some truth to that. Instead, a secondary negative feedback circuit gets swapped in by rely connections along with two other relays that reconnect the presence control pot and makes it a real presence control.

As for the Mark V, it is all based on relays. There are only two states, NC (normally closed) or NO (normally open). Extreme mode just un-connects the short across a 0.001uF capacitor. I had to take another look, I did not notice there was a relay at the output of the OT. It can switch from 8ohm to 4ohm windings. Now there is a puzzle, just below the jacks there is another relay RYSM Is that associated with the mute function? I doubt it has anything to do with the strobe mute for channel change. RYSM will either connect the outer ring to ground or in the other state, short the 8ohm tap to ground. The only place the Negative feedback is disconnected from CH3 is when you move to another channel. RYM9F is normally in the closed position until you turn on Extreme voice. M9 is the CH3 extreme mode from the first page. Anything with M9 as reference appears to be associated with that particular voicing. I don't care. Does not matter to me really. I did not make this thing so perhaps it does get disconnected. I don't care. Sorry I brought it up. I am just tired of the V thing. Going into retirement again. I did have some captured images but decided to remove them, I do not want to be sued for infringement. You can find the Schematics for the V90 from the original 2009 version.

 

[timothymartin220]

Saying it gets removed is easier than explaining how it really works.

Dual Rec, all voices except for modern have a fixed negative feedback circuit, nothing adjustable. What is labeled as presence is just a high pass filter. That is it. However, in modern mode, the fixed negative feeback circuit does get disconnected. So there is some truth to that. Instead, a secondary negative feedback circuit gets swapped in by rely connections along with two other relays that reconnect the presence control pot and makes it a real presence control.

As for the Mark V, it is all based on relays. There are only two states, NC (normally closed) or NO (normally open). Extreme mode just un-connects the short across a 0.001uF capacitor. I had to take another look, I did not notice there was a relay at the output of the OT. It can switch from 8ohm to 4ohm windings. Now there is a puzzle, just below the jacks there is another relay RYSM Is that associated with the mute function? I doubt it has anything to do with the strobe mute for channel change. RYSM will either connect the outer ring to ground or in the other state, short the 8ohm tap to ground. The only place the Negative feedback is disconnected from CH3 is when you move to another channel. RYM9F is normally in the closed position until you turn on Extreme voice. M9 is the CH3 extreme mode from the first page. Anything with M9 as reference appears to be associated with that particular voicing. I don't care. Does not matter to me really. I did not make this thing so perhaps it does get disconnected. I don't care. Sorry I brought it up. I am just tired of the V thing. Going into retirement again. I did have some captured images but decided to remove them, I do not want to be sued for infringement. You can find the Schematics for the V90 from the original 2009 version.

Well...I am no tech and if it is just a diode switch then Randall Smith is full of **** for no ;REALLY god reason. I dont know what it would serve to serve up that particular line of bullshit...I just thought it was cool I basically had a tone shift akin to the throwing of the deep switch and all I have to do is switch channels...dont really give two shits what causes it. I dont like when manufacturers and designers deliberately feed the public bul;lshit and this is just part and parcel of what I have seen from Mesa since I became a user...and honestly..they are all overpriced...I have an HH scott sitting in the next room I have ALWAYS wanted to build a high quality but minimalistic circuit out of...it was an amazing hi fi..but **** it..it is all handwired and would make an excellent test bed...just because I am an ******* and dont care (I probably would use the MArk V to experiment on firat to tell the actual truth...the Scott is SO much better engineered than that POS V)..over it as well..Have a good one Bandit!!

 

[bandit2013]

I have not listened or watched any interview of those that build amps and such. I would probably prefer a topic from Randall Smith than Dave Friedman. Consider it this way, what may be said was done so at a laymen's level. Easier to say it as if the presence circuit gets disconnected than to describe it in boring details that only an engineer would understand. Sure Mike Soldano took an existing design from a Marshall 2204 and built a clone (That is all Friedman is about) but at least experimented to some extent. The only thing that is different was a change in the cold clipper circuit, change a 10k cathode resistor with a 39K resistor. You cannot file a patent on that because it is prior art. Heck, even the Marshall was a clone of a Fender Tweed of sorts. Where does the credit really belong. Blame it on Fender. We all know where Mesa Boogie came from. However, just compare the workmanship and materials, that alone will bring in the divide of which may be better for longevity vs just something I will only one a year, get sick of it and sell it to the next sucker. Then there is the sound quality and its characteristics. Not all amps of the same make and model sound the same. Nothing is perfect. There is no such thing as an amp that can do everything but mimic what it should be. (pointing fingers at the IR type products and the digital emulators). The bottom line is this, does it fit your needs, do you like it or not. If not, sell it off to someone who would like it more than you do and move on. Did I say I have a love/hate thing with the Mark V?

What do I find appealing? JP2C (this is one that is mostly all about the power tubes you shove into it). It can sound epic or boring (seem limited) due to the lack of many voices that tend to all sound the same. It is just an amp of two basic choices. Clean or lead (3rd channel is not far from the 2nd but dues have a different gain characteristic). Badlander 100. This is just your basic 3 voiced amp. It is a little different than a Rectifier amp but to me this amp does what I want it to do, sound really good. It does not swamp you out with sub harmonic mud that gets in your way. I poked around this one just to determine is it based on the Rectifier preamp or not. It is. The cold clipper circuit is much closer to the Marshall 2204 than the Soldano Slo like the Rectifier preamp. However, it is a bit more than that as the crush voice brings in another gain stage in front of the cold clipper that gives you that JP2C sound assuming you had a reference for the STR415 sound (typically heard from the IIC+ era). Some of the IIC+ amps cannot run most 6L6 tubes due to the plate voltages. Royal Atlantic. it is a bit of a sleeper due to its simple appearance. In some respects, it is all about the power tubes used but the hi/lo gain channel can be tuned with some select NOS tubes (RFT12AX7 and Ei CV492 which is a Mullard copy when Mullard was its own company and not just a trade name used by a New Sensor)

Just those three: JP2C, Badlander, RA100 have in common what I found to be more to my liking. I can spend hours on end just loosing myself in the wall of sound these amps create. For me it is all about dynamics. I find that I am more creative if I like the tone and sound. So I have my preferences, likes and dislikes. For some the Mark V is their amps of all amps. For others it is a Friedman BE100, or a Soldano SLO whatever, REVV Generator, Diezel VHX, or a Bogner Goldfinger Superlead. I did consider Driftwood amplification and still have interests in Dynamo. I felt the boutique amps either to be overpriced and not worth the risk to buy without hearing first. Just give me something that sounds good and leave out all the bells and whistles. No bloody noise gates, If it need that it is probably a crappy design and has a noise floor issue. For the most part, Mesa was always more obtainable (affordable used to be the proper term). I am at that cross-road, is the Mesa Boogie Mark VII worth the investment or should I spend my money somewhere else? I do not have any loyalty for any particular brand but when I do try something different I may be more disappointed. Sure the Silver Jubilee 2555x was worth the money spent. Sounds great. When it comes to the quality of construction and materials, I think of Orange. Cheap parts made of soft plastic. My RA100 is a Rolls Royce compared to the Silver Jubilee in terms of material and workmanship. I like them both though. I am just tired of all this. Just want to enjoy playing with what I got. So why am I still looking? Do I really need another?

 

[bandit2013]

See what happens... I tend to rather discuss other amp than the V. Started off with trying to help but my negative bias was not very positive, perhaps -57 where it probably should be as that is what the Mark IVB runs. Have to look at the class A circuits before passing any judgement. Did I kill this thread yet? Was not my intent. Sorry for not helping.

 

[timothymartin220]

See what happens... I tend to rather discuss other amp than the V. Started off with trying to help but my negative bias was not very positive, perhaps -57 where it probably should be as that is what the Mark IVB runs. Have to look at the class A circuits before passing any judgement. Did I kill this thread yet? Was not my intent. Sorry for not helping.

Not sure...if you did you had help. That being said I HAVE been having fun with the V lately. I decided to try something I hadn't thought of. Taking the V as it is and putting a MXR 6 band graphic in the loop and just using it to tweak anything missing in the sound after I have what I consider as good as it gets. A few minor tweaks and sounds pretty good. Get subtractive and go old school sounds. Get slightly additive and get sounds that make any modern metal player jizz. I have a 31 band and it aint the same thing...no matter how I use it...too fiddly and time consuming..the slightest change makes huge differences, but they have to be spread out to actually hear what those differences are...something about this 6 band (let me say I usually hate it...the frequencies are all wrong and the shifts don't make sense...my worst pedal and I never use it...but it SEEMS targeted to help THIS amp/eq section perfectly with SMALL changes!!!) So lately that is all I am jamming...perfected 2C+ (so what you cant turn it on and get a perfect tone...you CAN get there!! IF YOU WORK HARD ENOUGH....LMAO)
Truthfully this actually has something. (When I first got this amp it blew my mind. There was a pure tone that came out of it for a little while...it went away...you have to find the right EQ and tube and everything combination...or keep retubing it constantly with expensive as hell tubes and that aint realistic...I wish it were more like the Studio and Mark 2 because they just relied on fewer tubes and didnt seem quite as needy of HIGH quality tubes...at least to me!!!) anyway glad to have a workaround for now...and GLAD it is sounding good enough to HAPPY me (I only tweak 100, 200 and 400 hertz...this seems to happy me and very little at that...but thats on Mark 2c+ bright off pentode and the eq in the Mesa V..I take a tiny bit 400 and add a touch 100 and 200)... Making my day!!! Like I said my highs are fine...I never had that issue and wish I did because there is SOME little bit of mojo there (although it sounds like YOU had an exceptionally bad amp....in the icepick and bias department...I have NEVER redplated a tube and do have a set of el34's) Try the small tweaks I said and see what you think!!

 

[timothymartin220]

Fellas…I would love it if y’all got a Mark VII and put it up against you V:90’s. Why? Becsuse it would save me a bit of coin to so the same!

Some of what you describe is what I’ve experienced on my late 2011 V:90 (single owner). I’m not as ‘on the outs’ with it as you guys but I must admit the draw of the VII is the simpler circuits and possibly getting closer to the tone in my head.

As far as to the CabClone IRs in the VII…as far as I know this has nothing to do with the tone going out of the speaker when it is disabled (not used). So, not sure what the complaint is with using much better XLR out technology compared with the passive original CabClone. It isn’t a negative for the VII by any means (other than it adds cost, I guess)

Wish I had the money to do that...good luck and let me know if YOU do!!

 

[domct203]

I owned a MKV 90 watt for a few years but could never get rid of the icepick highs and boxy midrange. Nothing like how I remember a MKIII I owned many years ago, wish I still had that amp.

Next year I plan to pickup a Mark Series amp again but I’m torn between the JP2C and the MKVII.

Dom

 

[bandit2013]

I am planning on going after the Mark VII. And when I do, hopefully will only be selling off the Mark V and not both. The MK VII will be the last Mark I will buy. If it sucks, I will sell them both and buy two more Badlanders. I can't seem to get enough of that sound. I need more.

As for the V90, I would think I would have mastered it after owning this one amp for 11 years.
Never had this much difficulty dialing in and enjoying the Mark III I had for 24 years (that was a complex enigma machine to start with). The Same would apply to the Mark IVb I had for 12 years. the V came from a different tone farm. At least the JP2C sounds like a Mesa amp, a bit different than what I had before but way better than the V even with crappy tubes installed in it. I did try the STR440 reds in the class A sockets along with the STR441 in the outer, that was just terrible. I may have to dig into the bias circuit again. It was way too hot right out of the box. Red Plate machine. That was only part of the problem.

 

[timothymartin220]

I owned a MKV 90 watt for a few years but could never get rid of the icepick highs and boxy midrange. Nothing like how I remember a MKIII I owned many years ago, wish I still had that amp.

Next year I plan to pickup a Mark Series amp again but I’m torn between the JP2C and the MKVII.

Dom

I owned a Studio Pre Amp and it had the ice pick highs. That seems to be a 2c+ thing (the Mark III was voiced differently and was voiced to scoop the mids more severely. Look at the recent post I have about using a 6 band in the loop after you set it like you want it (the GEQ))...something about taming the 100, 200, and 400 hz frequencies fixes my Mark V, only I have a newer one without the icepick highs (as I have said...there is a certain mojo in that bit, only in my Studio Pre you could dial it out...I am led to believe you CANNOT dial them out in the V)...I add a bump to the bass and remove a touch of the mid and my Mark V is singing like new money (The GEQ in the V isnt voiced right in my opinion..neither is the main channel compared to the earlier ones but with the GEQ (MXR) you get it there!!! at least I am for now!!!

 

[sherrillsml]

I owned a Studio Pre Amp and it had the ice pick highs. That seems to be a 2c+ thing (the Mark III was voiced differently and was voiced to scoop the mids more severely. Look at the recent post I have about using a 6 band in the loop after you set it like you want it (the GEQ))...something about taming the 100, 200, and 400 hz frequencies fixes my Mark V, only I have a newer one without the icepick highs (as I have said...there is a certain mojo in that bit, only in my Studio Pre you could dial it out...I am led to believe you CANNOT dial them out in the V)...I add a bump to the bass and remove a touch of the mid and my Mark V is singing like new money (The GEQ in the V isnt voiced right in my opinion..neither is the main channel compared to the earlier ones but with the GEQ (MXR) you get it there!!! at least I am for now!!!

If you have time would you mind sharing all of your 2C+ settings? I have the MXR 6 band I purchased in the late 70s and never thought about putting that in the loop because as you stated it is not all that great.

I have a Mark V that I purchased new in 2010 and even after installing EL34s and doing the V4 - V6 swap I have yet to bond with it. As a matter of fact I parked it years ago in favor of my Kemper, my 68 Fender Super Reverb, and my Marshall 2203 JCM800. It is all about personal preference but I spend 99.9% of my time using the Kemper.

Anyway it seems a shame to have the V setting in my music studio closet gathering dust all these years so I plan to dig out the old MXR and give it a try.

 

[timothymartin220]

If you have time would you mind sharing all of your 2C+ settings? I have the MXR 6 band I purchased in the late 70s and never thought about putting that in the loop because as you stated it is not all that great.

I have a Mark V that I purchased new in 2010 and even after installing EL34s and doing the V4 - V6 swap I have yet to bond with it. As a matter of fact I parked it years ago in favor of my Kemper, my 68 Fender Super Reverb, and my Marshall 2203 JCM800. It is all about personal preference but I spend 99.9% of my time using the Kemper.

Anyway it seems a shame to have the V setting in my music studio closet gathering dust all these years so I plan to dig out the old MXR and give it a try.

They are nothing special. They are basically what every other person uses...zero out the mids and bass (3 oclock treble, gain at 3 oclock or higher, volume at 12, higher for more present sound lower for less present sound, PRESENCE at 1:30or 2) (you can get useable mids if you max them ..it comes down to what part do you want to distort..Mesa meant for you to use treble signal but you can get mid distortion by maxing the mid tone knob). Then the standard V with the 240 amd 2.2 being at zero. I am adding 100 hz(4.5db) and 200 hz(7db), and cutting 400 hz (7db) and 800 hz (8db) with the MXR in the loop...that is MY taste preference but the sliders are touchy and I am sure yours will be different...do it by ear...thats what I did)...Kempers give you THAT tone every time...only you cannot get it to do anything ELSE (and I am using a mix of different pairs of 6l6 tube...short and tall bottle) see earlier post or that!! (it is ok with EL34..nothing special...sounds a lot like the power section from my TSL100...EXACTLY like)...I am digging the sound right now for sure!!

(Just want to make sure you remember...mine is a 2016 and does NOT have the icepick highs..they clearly changed the circuit (My Studio Pre did have that so it aint the setup or cab...it was the Studio Pre and is NOT the Mark V I have)) Let me know how it turns out for you...if you have similar luck to mine!!

 

[timothymartin220]

I am discovering the GEQ on the V is only 6db? The Studio Pre had at least 9 db if not 12.....the V just has a weak geq....I am using a 31 band ...takes forever but I get 15 db swing and I can go higher and lower in frequency than the V's geq. I am getting MUCH better sound but it takes one heck of a lot longer to adjust (you get the tone deaf thing and have to walk away for awhile...easier with fewer sliders!!!) (In using the variable db thing on my Ashley I discovered in 6 db mode the same swing as the V's geq...and I stopped using that mode because I needed more)...so to all the V users...get a REAL eq!!!! IT HELPS!!!! (and stop using the Mesa V.(the eq curve...not the 5)...or use it as a starting point and tweak it like I am!!) (I find I am adding bass and trimming mids and leaving the highs in place largely!!!)


BTW...REALLY happy with my V's tone right now...and EQ (external) can make all the difference!!! THE TONE IS IN THERE!!! You just have to figure out how to get it out!!!

 

[rarebitusa]

FWIW... I've had a set of STR-440 YELs in my V:90 since I got it back in 2019. For all I know they could have been the originals. The previous owner was a bedroom player who had used it sparingly. Seemed to sound fine to me. I had grabbed a duet set of STR-440s GRNs as a backup a few years back, but never tried them. So all this tube talk started the itch to try something. On a Bandit recommendation I got a duet of STR-441 GRYs, popped them in the outer sockets with these new 440s in the inner.

First will admit that I'm a poor cork sniffer with wine and have no glass sniffing skills with tubes either. Having preamp tube rolled the V a few times, it was disappointing, as there often was no appreciable difference to my ears, with the exception of the 12AT7 in V4. Now that one I could hear.

Well with these new tubes there was definitely a major improvement in the overall tone of the amp. The 90W SimulClass came alive, there was more character to the 45W mode and 10W mode was still sweet sounding. Each chan voicing seemed more distinct, Edge mode with SimulClass was actually enjoyable. I've got to think that some of it was due partly to the fact they were new? But while I do care to know what exactly is going on, it was well worth swapping them in.

 

[timothymartin220]

FWIW... I've had a set of STR-440 YELs in my V:90 since I got it back in 2019. For all I know they could have been the originals. The previous owner was a bedroom player who had used it sparingly. Seemed to sound fine to me. I had grabbed a duet set of STR-440s GRNs as a backup a few years back, but never tried them. So all this tube talk started the itch to try something. On a Bandit recommendation I got a duet of STR-441 GRYs, popped them in the outer sockets with these new 440s in the inner.

First will admit that I'm a poor cork sniffer with wine and have no glass sniffing skills with tubes either. Having preamp tube rolled the V a few times, it was disappointing, as there often was no appreciable difference to my ears, with the exception of the 12AT7 in V4. Now that one I could hear.

Well with these new tubes there was definitely a major improvement in the overall tone of the amp. The 90W SimulClass came alive, there was more character to the 45W mode and 10W mode was still sweet sounding. Each chan voicing seemed more distinct, Edge mode with SimulClass was actually enjoyable. I've got to think that some of it was due partly to the fact they were new? But while I do care to know what exactly is going on, it was well worth swapping them in.

No offense intended to Bandit , he is one heck of a guy and VERY smart, but THAT suggestion was totally ME! Thank you very much!!! (AND AS I TOLD BANDIT...a total accident , one of my short bottle tubes burned out and all I had was the tall bottle for spares...thats what got me to mix them...I preferered the sound of the short bottle tubes and left the good one in...so the mix!!!!)

 

[mace]

FWIW... I've had a set of STR-440 YELs in my V:90 since I got it back in 2019. For all I know they could have been the originals. The previous owner was a bedroom player who had used it sparingly. Seemed to sound fine to me. I had grabbed a duet set of STR-440s GRNs as a backup a few years back, but never tried them. So all this tube talk started the itch to try something. On a Bandit recommendation I got a duet of STR-441 GRYs, popped them in the outer sockets with these new 440s in the inner.

First will admit that I'm a poor cork sniffer with wine and have no glass sniffing skills with tubes either. Having preamp tube rolled the V a few times, it was disappointing, as there often was no appreciable difference to my ears, with the exception of the 12AT7 in V4. Now that one I could hear.

Well with these new tubes there was definitely a major improvement in the overall tone of the amp. The 90W SimulClass came alive, there was more character to the 45W mode and 10W mode was still sweet sounding. Each chan voicing seemed more distinct, Edge mode with SimulClass was actually enjoyable. I've got to think that some of it was due partly to the fact they were new? But while I do care to know what exactly is going on, it was well worth swapping them in.

Maybe you're already aware, but the 10W mode uses the two left tubes (as viewed from the rear) and the 45W mode uses the inner tubes. Of course 90W mode uses all 4 power tubes. So, when mixing colors between inner and outer a cocktail of colors is actually being used for the 10W mode and the 45W mode would only use one of the colors. Not sure what effect this would have on amp performance or tube life etc.