Mark Series Vs. Rectifier Series

[TremoJem]

I had a discussion with Don at Haggerty's Music.

We discussed the difference in eq from the Mark to the Rectifier Series.

In his own words, playing lead on the Mark was like having the notes jump off the fretboard, effortless, seemed to allow him to play better than normal and most people coming in and playing the Mark V are in agreement with him , according to Don.

Don said this is not true with any rectifier as they are eq'd differently.

So what is the eq or tonestack difference?

What changes can you make to your Rectifier using FXLoops with an eq or to the signal at the front of the amp that uses an eq that would get you closer to that effortless sound of that Mark V?

I am not looking for miracles, I mean it is part of design...right. So the tonestack is different and maybe a little less of some frequencies or a pinch of other frequencies added either at the front of the amp or in the FXLoop might get you a "little" closer.

Just wondering.

 

[greatmutah]

Some people like to do an EQ in the FX loop. I like a boost/OD out front. It doesn't necessarily have to be anything ridiculous either. The Rectos are amazing amps but they're voiced a little anemic in the upper mid territory. So running the mids a little higher definitely helps but also slamming it with a boost /OD in the front really helps. My favorite boost is the $40 Boss SD-1. It's similar in circuitry to a Tube Screamer but clips differently. When I still had my Rectos, that pedal LOVED my Rectos. TS-9 or 808 would be a little smoother, but overall will have a similar effect. That's really all you need. It just gives it a kick in the upper mids to smooth things out and make things flow better.

 

[TremoJem]

Thanks.

I would like to know what that frequency range is so that I can play with it.

I have a mid boost of 5dB and a slight gain hitting the front of the amp using the Radial ToneBone SwitchBone.

I also have a parametric EQ in the FXLoop using the GMajor and that is where I can really dial it in. This is the reason I am looking for the frequency range that the "mid boost " lies in.

Rather than take all day to try each increment in lets say 600 to 1.5K it would be nice to narrow it down and then work with it to find the sweet spot.

Thanks again.

 

[A_Ryder]

I had a discussion with Don at Haggerty's Music.

We discussed the difference in eq from the Mark to the Rectifier Series.

In his own words, playing lead on the Mark was like having the notes jump off the fretboard, effortless, seemed to allow him to play better than normal and most people coming in and playing the Mark V are in agreement with him , according to Don.

Don said this is not true with any rectifier as they are eq'd differently.

So what is the eq or tonestack difference?

What changes can you make to your Rectifier using FXLoops with an eq or to the signal at the front of the amp that uses an eq that would get you closer to that effortless sound of that Mark V?

I am not looking for miracles, I mean it is part of design...right. So the tonestack is different and maybe a little less of some frequencies or a pinch of other frequencies added either at the front of the amp or in the FXLoop might get you a "little" closer.

Just wondering.

Yep good advice.

Some amps apply tone settings first and then amplify, others amplify first and apply tone afterwards. (Pre-gain versus post-gain EQ...)

Practically speaking, I'd say Mark series amps are optimized for their lead tone (they also have great cleans) but can do with some tone shaping using a graphics EQ when it comes to crunch.

Whereas a Rectifier (or Marshall) are optimized for crunch but can do with some help in the lead tone department. Satch with his OD1, Malmsteen with his DOD, etc. for certain styles of lead you can get away without any pedals (I'm thinking Angus). I know they're Marshall guys but the same applies to Rectifier amps.

I personally use a Fulldrive2 (only because that's all I had) or a RAT - with distortion set to pretty well zero, don't want to color the sound in any way, just to slam the amp a bit to fatten up the lead tones.

 

[chipaudette]

As the guys said above, a simple OD pedal in front is usually most people need to get a recto to sing a little more. Most overdrive pedals cut some of the bass, even with the distortion knob turned to zero. By cutting a little bass, your guitar signal is more focussed on the mids and highs, which is exactly what the amps gain circuits need to see in order to sing.

To get the bass sound back (if you want it for your chugga-chugga), turn up the bass knob on the recto. That bass knob comes after all the gain stages, so it's safe to turn it up.

On a Mark series amp, the knobs come before the gain stages...which is why the amp can sound kinda bad if you don't know how to turn the knobs right. Here's how most people have their mark amp knobs set for singing lead...

Treble: 6-8 (pull shift engaged...which lowers the knob's frequency to focus on upper mids as well)
Mid: 0-5 (it's actually focused a bit on lower mids...people tune to taste)
Bass: 0-2 (Cut the bass! cut it! Or you'll get flub!)

So, you see, that by manually cutting the bass like this on the Mark amps, you get a similar effect that most recto guys get simply by plugging in an OD pedal...less bass before the distortion. That's why the OD pedal is used more often than an EQ pedal...it's simpler and cheaper.

If you really want to make it sing a little more, maybe you'd get some benefit from an EQ pedal by giving a little more boost to the upper mids (to simulate the pulled treble knob on a Mark amp). With the Treble knob pulled (pull shift engaged), the knob's effect starts around 300 Hz and gets near to its full effect by 1000 Hz. Depending on how many bands your EQ has, you'll have to find your own settings...like on a Boss GE-7, you'd give a couple dB at 400 Hz, a couple more at 800, and then set all the rest of the higher ones to the same value at just a smidgen more than 800. They call this a high-shelf.

If you're going to use an EQ pedal to replicate this effect (though, again, a simple OD pedal is usually perfectly sufficient), it needs to come *before* the amp's distortion circuit. If you incorrectly put it in the effects loop, it won't have the right effect...it'll just make you sound really nasally. Ick. Instead, it needs to go guitar -> EQ pedal -> Amp. That way, it's before the amp's distortion and gives it a chance to sing.

Finally, note that the rectifier does do some hardwired EQ in its own circuitry prior to the distortion elements. The amp itself does a little bit of the bass-cut / treble focus, just not enough for that liquid lead sound (or course, if it did, it wouldn't sound like a rectifier...woomp, chugga, woomp!). Therefore, don't just use my dB settings above or it'll sound too treble-focused...especially at the highest (ice pick) frequencies. You gotta be careful. Let your ears guide you...a little boost here, a little cut here. I see a lot of people do a "frowny face" curve on their EQ pedal for leads. Maybe that's the right recipe...all mids and upper mids...cut the bass and cut the ice-pick frequencies. YMMV.

Chip

 

[TremoJem]

Excellent post and thanks for the great detail.

I do use a smidgin of gain and 5db mid boost before the preamp. I use the Radial listed below for that and am not sure what frequencies they are boosting, but they have a bell curve icon that demonstrates what they believe is useful in representing that information. Great company and I know if I contact them they will tell me what the boost frequency or frequencies are.

Last night I used the GMajor to cut 199.5 Hz, minus 2 db, and a Q of .2. I also increased 817.5 Hz by 4 db, at Q of .2, and lastly I increased 1.5 kHz by 2 db, with a Q of 1.0.

This made a huge difference.

Sounds great but I need to let this sink in and here it with my drummer etc.

Thanks again.

 

[ltd2recto]

I think those frequencies are pretty much spot on. The 1.5kHz is to taste. I like Marshalls & own a Mark III whose frequency is 2.2kHz in the GEQ. Remember the general rule is boost wide, cut narrow. I used to do the same cut at 200Hz when I had the rectifier cab.

 

[Neptical]

I had a discussion with Don at Haggerty's Music.

We discussed the difference in eq from the Mark to the Rectifier Series.

In his own words, playing lead on the Mark was like having the notes jump off the fretboard, effortless, seemed to allow him to play better than normal and most people coming in and playing the Mark V are in agreement with him , according to Don.

I can't contribute anything other then agreeing to that of Don, and the reason why I'm a forever Mark series fan.

Although, recently I was quite surprised to hear a Roadster fed with a BB preamp and some EQ that sounded as creamy as it gets for leads.

 

[TremoJem]

Yes, I agree, although I have not played a Mark Series amp.

I have viewed the comparison videos online and here subtle differences, but these videos are not like sitting in a room and playing both amps.

Just making the adjustments to my GMajor EQ and then comparing them by using the FXLoop footswitch has really opened my eyes.

I will say that I don't know what to expect when the band is together.

 

[TremoJem]

Radial ToneBone specs state the following:

Mid-boost:
+10 dB @ 800 Hz only
+5 dB @ 1 kHz only

Interesting huh...

 

[mark2boogie]

Hi,

I recently had for service a Dual Rectifier and a Marshall JVM2000 series, and I can say that these 2 amps are similar in tone style, where agressivity and "in your face" attitude seems to be compulsory. I also had a Caliber 50 +, and for this one I can say that it's nothing but a barking PittBull. None of them were able to compete both in clean, crunch or lead with the main characteristic of my MKIIA : smoothness, deepness and singing sustain...

A+!

 

[ltd2recto]

I should also add that the tubes help shape the overall EQ of the amp. Meaning I think you should order a set EL-34 Winged C power amp tubes asap. They really are that good! It tightens up the sound by cutting just a little bass (which you can make up with an EQ in the loop if you really want). But the mids just f'ing ROAR at band volume!!

After going winged c's & a marshall 1960av cab, I had to mod my tubescreamer to NOT cut bass because it was already tight enough.

 

[TremoJem]

Thanks ltd2recto, I actually have two Tremoverbs.

One is loaded with SED =C= EL34s and the other with SED =C= 6L6s.

Tung-Sol in V1 and JAN Philips 12AT7 in the PI slot.

It is all coming together now.

FXLoop Settings
100Hz +4db .2Q
199.5Hz -6db .2Q
700Hz +4db 1.0Q

Front of amp
Clean gain bump of 2-3db (it is really hard to measure that number, but it is a slight bump not very over bearing, just a pinch over subtle)
1KHz +5db

I am still experimenting but am pretty close to settled.

I am now turning my sights to speakers.

I am considering 412s by Avatar loaded with V30 and G12H in an X pattern.

I am not sure what G12H to use though, as they have the 55 & 75 version, which focus on bass respectively with regards to frequency.

I want the thump, but want it focused, tight and articulate so I guess the 75 should be the obvious choice.

Let me know if you have any thoughts, thanks.