I've read the B revision has more gain.. but I'm more attracted to the A revision for the IIC+ preamp. I've only played the B and for sure the Lead channel can nail those two bands I mentioned.. but I cannot find an 'A' to play and compare, can anyone shed some light?
Mark IV A .. capable of LOG/Chevelle?
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Elpelotero
Well-known member
boogiebabies did a post a few days ago detailing the electronic differences between both amps and how they relate to the tone differences...you got to fish around for it some.
Shep
Well-known member
yeap you can get those tone out of a A..there isn't to much of a difference with the A and b..
Boogiebabies
Well-known member
The IVA circuit is based on a 60/100 schematic of the IIC+. It is not based on the Simul which has no bright reduction cap. On the IV A this is the V3B - C23/R276. the original IIC+ 60/100 used a .001 cap instead of a 500pf, but they both cut highs. The other cap change is the C2/R102. The original IIC+ used a 10pf for a brighter clean channel and it has an effect on the lead channel as well. Mesa used a 20pf here. Both these changes are consistent with the mods done to IIC+'s to remove gain and brightness. The MK IVB has the 20pf, but not the 500pf on R276. It also has a minor change to the bypass cap on R332 in the lead circuit. It was brightened with the use of a 750pf cap instead of the IIC+ and IVA .001, or 1000pf.
I prefer the MK IVB and stock IIC+ Simul-Class amps. For me, the .001 or 500pf bypass cap just dulls the shred they have stock.
Sorry for the cheesy re-post.
I prefer the MK IVB and stock IIC+ Simul-Class amps. For me, the .001 or 500pf bypass cap just dulls the shred they have stock.
Sorry for the cheesy re-post.
Boogie, thanks for the helpful info.. is it a staggering difference if I want the tone listed in those bands above? If I were to get an A, can that cap be replaced by a qualified tech to give me that gain back and/or would you recommend such a thing?
mr_fender
Well-known member
From what I've heard, the differences are very subtle and most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference unless they were A/B'ing them side by side. I know my A has more then enough gain for any kind of metal. If you need more gain than this amp puts out, you are playing with too much distortion and your tone is most likely complete mush anyway. Even Rhythm 2 on my A can crank like a beast. The lead channel with the EQ is a metal maniac, anything from Petrucci to Dimebag to Kerry King... You name it. Plug one of these babies into a 4x12 or full stack and it will rip your face off. The best thing about the Mark IV is that despite the super high gain grind available, it is always tight and defined. It doesn't get buzzy or mush out like the rectifiers can. I love my Mark IV.
A year or so ago in one of the guitar magazines I remember seeing one of those cartoonish rig explanations and it was for Lamb of God. If I remember correctly it showed the A version as half of their sound while the B version made up the other half. Which guitarist I forget plays which but they use both.
Aramism
Well-known member
actually russ, mark morton, one of the two guitarists has (2) mark iv B heads. same heads. and they are just eq'd differently.
one of them is eq's with the mids scooped the other with the mids slightly boosted. he states that the reason he did this was because there are 2 dominant and opposing worlds in the tone realm for modern metal bands. like kse, god forbid, etc., that play with scooped mids and the old school thrash bands that were all about mids like slayer and testament so he decided to blend his sound with 2 amps and a signal splitter. if you ever see them live he has 2 sennheiser e609's micing his 4x12's and he lets the house sound guy decide according to the venue and the sound system which tone to boost more in his mix.
willie adler, the other guitarist has the same head as mark morton and i believe he has his eq's pretty much the same as mortons "mid boosted" head but slightly less mids sine morton's mid boosted head is exaggerated in the mid section to compliment the other scooped eq head.
i am actually getting a mark iv B which i bought used and is at mesa now going through some diagnostics and basic service since it's from like 1995. it was one of the first B heads ever made, literally. the dude i believe chris dillbeck or something told me there that it was like the 14th or 15th B head ever shipped out.
i wonder myself what the differences are. seems like the A head is more brighter and has a tad less gain. otherwise i'm pretty sure the B has more non tonal features like the sattelite send. but tonally i'm pretty sure they are darn close, urban legend has it the mark iv a is brighter and has a touch less gain.
boogiebabies gave a great explanation but i'm not sure how that translates into layman terms and actual tonality.
one of them is eq's with the mids scooped the other with the mids slightly boosted. he states that the reason he did this was because there are 2 dominant and opposing worlds in the tone realm for modern metal bands. like kse, god forbid, etc., that play with scooped mids and the old school thrash bands that were all about mids like slayer and testament so he decided to blend his sound with 2 amps and a signal splitter. if you ever see them live he has 2 sennheiser e609's micing his 4x12's and he lets the house sound guy decide according to the venue and the sound system which tone to boost more in his mix.
willie adler, the other guitarist has the same head as mark morton and i believe he has his eq's pretty much the same as mortons "mid boosted" head but slightly less mids sine morton's mid boosted head is exaggerated in the mid section to compliment the other scooped eq head.
i am actually getting a mark iv B which i bought used and is at mesa now going through some diagnostics and basic service since it's from like 1995. it was one of the first B heads ever made, literally. the dude i believe chris dillbeck or something told me there that it was like the 14th or 15th B head ever shipped out.
i wonder myself what the differences are. seems like the A head is more brighter and has a tad less gain. otherwise i'm pretty sure the B has more non tonal features like the sattelite send. but tonally i'm pretty sure they are darn close, urban legend has it the mark iv a is brighter and has a touch less gain.
boogiebabies gave a great explanation but i'm not sure how that translates into layman terms and actual tonality.
Aramism
Well-known member
what I really wanna know by the way is what kind of tubes do lamb of god use? 4 6l6 or 2 6l6 and 2 el34, which is a popular configuration on the mark iv. they have a lot of vintagy cut to their sound. during soundcheck their sound is ABSOLUTELY CUTTING and ball shaking. you can hear how powerful those amps are. in the overall mix they sound very cool and not as dominant due to chrtis adlers crazy double bass drumming and the singers intense vocal style.
I may have misunderstood what was written there on that page. They may have been labeling the amps simply as #a and #b as opposed to actually saying that it was an a version or a b version head. Sorry if my confusion led to anyone else's but I could have sworn that they said that they use both.
Nick_cor
Well-known member
rabies said:
Hey dude, that's too bad you saw DT on the Gigantour.. i saw them march 22, 2006 and he told me himself he was using the mark IIC+ and mark IV and **** IT WAS SWEEEEEET way better then lamb of god because john petrucci is just that much better and no one can say else because john petrucci is a bloody tank, and his tone is god like. thank you :twisted:
Hmmm, I've heard there's not much difference but then I've heard that there is.. is there a concise answer like with the dual rectifiers.. where the 2channel ones are obviously more organic/better sounding.. is that similar for what people think of the A versus B?
Nick_cor
Well-known member
yeah, some of their songs are 20 minutes long, and there shows are 3 hours long, and they're standing, i mean, theres a border line between musician and bedroom shredder and DT is right there, it has all the notes a shredder would want but all the musicallity and harmony a musicina would want but mixed together with some heavy virtuositic playing and stuff..look at a DT score, it's very complex , the chords he plays might not be, BUT what John Petrucci and Jordan Rudess like to do is, they share the chord interavals like, john would play like a powerchord added 9th or something , but it would in the tonality of a minor chord and then jordan rudess would play all the extra notes to make it sound more colourful and stuff. nuff said.
.........
I appreciate the music discussion but the topic is not being addressed here. I'm not looking to copy anyone's sound or settings at all, I just want to know if the A revision is CAPABLE of reaching that level of sound and why specifically some people say A is better, etc.
I can find an A to buy right now.. hard luck finding a B, just want to get an amp and start playing it and I want to make sure I'm going to find what I'm looking for.
I appreciate the music discussion but the topic is not being addressed here. I'm not looking to copy anyone's sound or settings at all, I just want to know if the A revision is CAPABLE of reaching that level of sound and why specifically some people say A is better, etc.
I can find an A to buy right now.. hard luck finding a B, just want to get an amp and start playing it and I want to make sure I'm going to find what I'm looking for.
Aart
Well-known member
The A definately nails those tones.
You cant put the lead gain on an A version a lot further than 8, so the B can't.
The biggest difference is the rhy 2, the B has more gain thats useful too.
But the lead channel on the b and a is almost the same, you wont hear the difference without a/b-ing them.
The a is somewhat brighter and tighter, but its futile.
The A will get you the tones tht you want, and so will the B.
I like the A better because i dont use the extra gain on rhy 2 and the amp has 2 effects loops.
You cant put the lead gain on an A version a lot further than 8, so the B can't.
The biggest difference is the rhy 2, the B has more gain thats useful too.
But the lead channel on the b and a is almost the same, you wont hear the difference without a/b-ing them.
The a is somewhat brighter and tighter, but its futile.
The A will get you the tones tht you want, and so will the B.
I like the A better because i dont use the extra gain on rhy 2 and the amp has 2 effects loops.
mind blown...
the A is 'tighter'?
I thought the B was supposed to be tighter and more shreddy?
If the lead channels are basically the same then I think that's cool, but now the can of worms opened about rhythm 2.. define what you mean by gain. I don't want so much gain there is no tone, but I really want RH2 to be my 80s judas priest, etc style channel for just good all around chunky rhythm sound.
Is it worth waiting to find a B ?
Boogiebabies sent me a great description between the two but it's hard to take that and say for sure which is better for me. I can ONLY play a B locally so I have no way of A/Bing them (pardon the terrible pun) on my own.
the A is 'tighter'?
I thought the B was supposed to be tighter and more shreddy?
If the lead channels are basically the same then I think that's cool, but now the can of worms opened about rhythm 2.. define what you mean by gain. I don't want so much gain there is no tone, but I really want RH2 to be my 80s judas priest, etc style channel for just good all around chunky rhythm sound.
Is it worth waiting to find a B ?
Boogiebabies sent me a great description between the two but it's hard to take that and say for sure which is better for me. I can ONLY play a B locally so I have no way of A/Bing them (pardon the terrible pun) on my own.
Aart
Well-known member
Well, i think the A nor B can do heavy metal on the Rhy 2, you need the lead with eq for that stuff.
The rhy 2 is more for hard rock, think plexi with mesa voicing.
The B has more gain on the rhy 2, so the B will get you the closest on Rhy 2, but i dont think you will get metal out of rhy 2 on both versions.
Will search for some clips, wait a minute.
Mesa/Boogie Mark IV Clips:
R2 rock Crunch 1
R2 Rock Crunch 2
R2 Rock Crunch 3
Lead Rock Tones
Lead Metal Tone
Lead Rock Wankage[/quote]
This is how far the Rhy 2 goes on the A, the B has a tiny little bit more gain, but the same voicing.
This is from a B, but my A sounds pretty much the same.
I think you will be happy with both versions.
The rhy 2 is more for hard rock, think plexi with mesa voicing.
The B has more gain on the rhy 2, so the B will get you the closest on Rhy 2, but i dont think you will get metal out of rhy 2 on both versions.
Will search for some clips, wait a minute.
Mesa/Boogie Mark IV Clips:
R2 rock Crunch 1
R2 Rock Crunch 2
R2 Rock Crunch 3
Lead Rock Tones
Lead Metal Tone
Lead Rock Wankage[/quote]
This is how far the Rhy 2 goes on the A, the B has a tiny little bit more gain, but the same voicing.
This is from a B, but my A sounds pretty much the same.
I think you will be happy with both versions.
I dont want a metal tone out of RH2, but something for good hard rock/classic rock riffing, the B I demoed did this beautifully on 2.
The other appealing thing is the foot-switchable reverb on the B model
edit: thanks for the responses, I appreciate it
The other appealing thing is the foot-switchable reverb on the B model
edit: thanks for the responses, I appreciate it
Aart
Well-known member
The reverb on the A is stock not footswitchable, but with a simple mod that you will be able to do yourself it will be footswitchable.
I'm trying to find the topic right now.
****, my clips arent working anymore, probably removed by the autor.
I'm trying to find the topic right now.
****, my clips arent working anymore, probably removed by the autor.
I just want to make sure the differences are subtle enough that I'm not kicking myself. My example with the rectifier is a case in point.. how everyone said there wasn't much of a diff between 2 and 3 channel models and there really is.
