Mark III speaker question

[Mellowtronic]

Hey all. My Mark III is loaded with the EV12L. evm12l? Anyway. Am thinking of converting it to a head and then plugging into a 2x12. I have an old Avatar closed back 2x12 into which I can drop speakers. I'd like to keep the EV speaker in there, but also maybe an Alnico Gold(50 watts) Would this be a decent combo of speakers? If not, do you think two Alnico golds would handle the Mark III well? I know this may sound silly to some, but I like to really craft a unique tone. Let me know thoughts.

C

 

[mesa verde]

Personally there is more to picking non-matched speakers in a 2x12 or 4x12 besides tonal issues. The ceramic EV12 is a more efficient speaker than the Alnico and so it will bury the other speaker in volume. The other thing is that the more power you give to the EV12 the louder it gets and it stays uncompressed and very articulate. Like a big clean PA speaker that doesn't really color your sound much. All the nice tones of the Alnico won't matter because it will hardly be heard in that mix of speakers. The Alnico also has a great way of compressing as it gets louder but this also won't matter because that won't be heard either. So keep an eye to the speaker efficiency rating (db @ 1 watt). You don't necessarly need to pick speakers with exactly the same efficiency ratings but at least keep within the ballpark. A speaker rated at 95 or 96 db per 1 watt is a lot different efficiency than a speaker rated at 100++ decibels @ 1 watt. The lower efficiency however will let you drive your power section more to achieve the same volume as a higher effeicency speaker so this can be a good thing. Of course if you had a Studio 22 and wanted to gig with it you might want the higher efficiency rated speaker to get more volume within the power available to this lower wattage amp.
If you really like the tones of the Alnico (which are way different than the EV12 speaker) then go with 2 Alnico speakers. Alnicos have their own thing going besides the inherent compression you get when they overdrive. Alnicos are in a way the opposite of what that EV12 is all about. You could also match another big sounding speaker with the EV12 such as the Eminence Swamp Thang (which would actually go very nicely with the EV12 and make a good compliment to it both in tone and volume/punch). Believe with these in a 2x12 you'll have no problem being heard in any band mix.
So I personally would not match those 2 speakers together. But then again, there are no rules, only what your ears like to hear.

 

[edward]

I can't speak to the Alnico Gold, never having used or heard one. But I can attest to the MC90 being a stellar partner to the EVM12L. The two sound like they're made for each other, IMHO. The warmer mids and rounder bottom (and less bottom) of the MC90 add a mid-definition that the EVM doesn't have. By the same token, the EVM's powerful/rock-solid bottom and crisp top end add a thimp and a sparkle than the MC just can't quite reach. I love them both individually, to be sure (and use them individually, as well). But together, they compliment one another's different voicings perfectly ...which is why I try to use both in separate cabs (when I can get away with it, at least). But the bottom line is trust your ears and experiment. Not unusual to go through several speakers in a given cab until you find just the right one that sounds "right" to you.

Edward

 

[igfraso]

The Mark III has been designed around an EVM-12L.
Cheers

 

[CoG]

C90 or Celestion Classic Lead 80 (apparently they're very close) are good choices; if you want to save cash you could try a Warehouse Brit Lead, which I have also tried and is even warmer.

I have a CL80 and an EVM12 in a closed-back Avatar, and it sounds great.

Honestly, I'd start with this because it's a good, tested representation of the Mark III, and give it a few weeks to find your tones in the amp before messing with the speakers. Unless you already have an Alnico Gold, that's a LOT of money to drop on a speaker just to try. The thing with the Mark III is it really has a "voice", as you probably know, and it was designed to work with cabs and speakers that are relatively transparent... most stuff that has a midrange "bump" of any kind, like the Gold, is going to start sounding a "honky" with a MkIII. However, I don't even know if you'd hear it over the EVM.

 

[Mellowtronic]

Wow. I never considered such issues. That certainly is something to consider! Thank you all so much.

As for the golds, I dont have one laying around, but I do work for a large national music retailer, so I get them at cost(still not that dirt cheap!). That certainly helps. I tend to try things out all the time. At the very least, I could use the gold with another amp if it doesnt work out.

I certainly won't try pairing the Gold up with the EV, as your explanation of the difference makes a lot of sense to me. The Ev does have an amazing clarity like I've never heard. It kind fo reminds me of a BETTER version than the celestion 70/80Also, the mid bump of traditional speakers does worry me with regards to the MKIII. We shall see!

 

[phyrexia]

The Gold and the 12L are both 100db speakers; they shouldn't be much louder than each other. I don't know where you heard that the Gold is a quiet speaker or quieter than the 12L. The frequency responses are different of course.

I thought my mark III sounded great through a Celestion Blue. I didn't turn it up very loud.

I don't know if the EV and the Gold would sound good together but you should be able to hear them both.

 

[ursinus]

I recently tried the new Jensen Blackbird with my MKIII. It was stellar! Give it a shot. BTW I used it in a Port City OS 1x12 Cab

 

[mesa verde]

The Gold and the 12L are both 100db speakers; they shouldn't be much louder than each other. I don't know where you heard that the Gold is a quiet speaker or quieter than the 12L. The frequency responses are different of course.

Yeah you are right although generally Alnicos are not as efficient as most ceramics but even so all Alnico speakers as they get louder start to compress the sounds and when you really crank them up you get even more compression from the speakers. The EV12 just keeps getting louder and bigger sounding and it doesn't compress the sounds (like the PA/HiFi speaker it evolved from).
So all the nice Alnico nuances would still get drowned out by the EV12 if both were being fed the same amount of watts. That is not to say that ceramics and alnicos can't get along together nicely. But the EV12 is not something that would play very nice with the Alnico Gold's or blues. Again this is (imho) and obviously YMMV.

 

[user 9884]

I have a CL80 and an EVM12 in a closed-back Avatar, and it sounds great.

That's good to hear because I just bought a rack-mounted Mk III and was planning on using it with my 80s Marshall 4x12 which is loaded with CL80s. If I purchased a cab for it, I assume most here would say that it'd be sacreligious to use anything but an EVM12 speaker?

 

[edgecrusher]

Heresy indeed! :twisted: :lol:

Actually, I've found that my Mark III head has sounded great through a friends Marshall 1960 with G12T-75's and even greater in an Ibanez 412 loaded with G12T-100's. I really liked the darker, yet still clear and powerfull tone of the T-100's, and I think its one of the best speakers to pair up with an EVM-12L.

I also recently purchased an Orange 212 cab with Emenince V30's clones that sound great, but very different than my EVM-12L loaded Mesa cab, which is ultimately the best match for maximum chest thumping low end power

 

[CoG]

I have a CL80 and an EVM12 in a closed-back Avatar, and it sounds great.

That's good to hear because I just bought a rack-mounted Mk III and was planning on using it with my 80s Marshall 4x12 which is loaded with CL80s. If I purchased a cab for it, I assume most here would say that it'd be sacreligious to use anything but an EVM12 speaker?

Overall I am a big fan of CL80s.

The big thing with the Mark III is that it was designed so that you could take the 1x12 combo to a gig and kill the guy playing a 50W Marshall through a 4x12. This was done by putting all the tone in the amp and using a very loud, clear, hi-fi speaker that would just put out what the amp was playing.

However, this was back in 1985. Guys generally didn't want as much low end as they do now in hard rock and metal. The EVM puts out a lot of bass, but it's still only one speaker in a 1x12, and cabs with multiple EVMs start to get logistically problematic. And in rock and pop in the mid-80s, a lot of players were getting away from 'vintage' and didn't want any speaker "warmth". To some modern players the EVs can sound sterile, especially for crunch-type tones, which is where the speaker mix thing comes in.

The EV is what the Mark III was designed for. However, the MarkIII was designed almost 25 years ago, and is not always used the way its designers imagined it would be...

 

[Mellowtronic]

So perhaps not a great combo(the Ev and the Gold) but the Mark III with others speaker doesn't seem to be an issue. Very good very good.

As for my reasons for wanting to try other speakers, the EV does at times sound sterile to me. At high volumes, I love it, because it won't crap out and fart on me. But at times, I'm used to the sound of the speaker reacting to the volume I'm giving it. I'm torn at times.

I guess the only way to really know what might sound good is to just try it out! Perhaps running an extension cab with a speaker such as the Gold, or even a V30 might make for some interesting tones. While I understand the Ev will blow these speakers out of the water, I will be playing at venues large enough to necessitate micing the extension cab.

My only other concern is blowing my extension cab speaker up. Do the extension jacks put out the same 85 watts as the main jack? If so, that's a bummer, but if I do play in Class A usually.

 

[kmanick]

I run my Mark III red stripe thru 2 different cab and they both sound very good (albeit different)
the main cab I use with it is a Rect 2X12. I think it sounds great thru the Mesa V30's. That cab has a ton of thump to it as well so I get plenty of bottom out of it.
The other cab I have is an Avatar traditional 2X12 that I bought empty and loaded with a fresh pair of mesa C90's. This cab doesn't sound as good as the Recto cab at lower volumes, but as soon as you put some juice into it it sounds unreal. I usually use this cab with my JSX head because it smooths' out the mids a bit, and it does the same with the Mark III. If you're gigging with yours I'd look into the C90's, but if you're playing at home and you are going to keep it at lower volumes I'd look into a recto cab. Both speakers work well with the Mark III.

 

[user 9884]

Overall I am a big fan of CL80s.
<snip except for...>
cabs with multiple EVMs start to get logistically problematic.

Great post. The above line does make me smile.

I played the Mk III back to back with a Roccaforte head using my Marshall 4x12. The Roccaforte did sound better than R2, but it didn't absolutely destroy it the way I feared it might, and I liked what I was getting out of both R1 and the lead channel. It made me wonder why I ever sold my previous Mark III.

It might have been the 1x12 just didn't let the amp open up the way the 4x12 did. Or maybe it was the speakers. Or maybe this amp just sounds better than the previous one did. Anyway, it's good to be back in the Boogie family.

 

[Mellowtronic]

Anyone have any idea what kind of wattage is being pushed through the extension cabinet jacks on the MKIII?

Too much for a 50 watt speaker at 8 ohms?

 

[MrMarkIII]

The output power is split between the two speakers, if they are the same impedance and you use the two four-ohm jacks. If the speakers are not the same impedance, the speaker with a lower impedance will be louder. The speaker with a higher power rating will also (probably) be louder.
With a head, use the two four-ohm jacks.
Leave the eight-ohm jack empty.
If it's a combo, unplug the internal speaker from the eight-ohm jack and plug it into one of the four-ohm jacks. Plug speaker #2 into the other four-ohm jack.
The manual explains this as well. Downloadable from the Mesa website. Free.