Mark III green vs blue vs red stripe

[jkkkjkhk]

So I bought my Mark III a couple years ago being told it was a blue stripe, until the other day when I discovered it's only a shitty green stripe (kidding of course) :lol:. A couple months ago I got the chance to compare it side by side with a red stripe. My green stripe is loaded with winged C 6L6's, preamps are a mixed set (Tung sol, JJ, Sovtek, Mesa Ruby), the red stripe had new Mesa tubes all around (6l6/el34). Both heads were simul class and fully loaded and I ran them both into a Mesa 4x12. With identical settings I was surprised with how different they sounded. I'm used to my green stripe so to me the red stripe was noticeably less gain, much darker, and less aggressive. Much of the "hair" was rolled off and it sounded like the cab had a blanket over it (compared to my green, which again is what I'm used to). I've always read that the blue stripe is brighter and grittier so this went along with that thought, but I wondered about the tubes. Now to find I actually have a green stripe instead of a blue and it's got me wondering even more.

How much of a difference would the tubes make, brands as well as all 6l6 vs 6l6/el34?
I understand the difference in tone between pentode/triode and the c30 on paper but does anyone else have much experience between these 3 specifically?
Is the blue and green identical besides pentode/triode?
Has anyone else had the chance to really compare the red to blue, red to green, or blue to green?

I haven't played any other Mark III's so I have no point of reference so it's possible mine might not sound as it should, but I was surprised with how big of a difference there really was. Another thing about my green stripe is the pots have quite a bit of play to them. The knobs aren't loose and the pots are tight as well, but like if I set a knob to 4 it can sway from 3.5 to 4.5. All the knobs on the front (except the reverb) have this wiggle room, the reverb and the knobs on the back are tight though. I thought it was weird but after playing the red stripe I know it's NOT supposed to be like that. And one more thing, I never thought about it before but I'm noticing every other Mark I'm seeing has plain black block sliders, where mine are different, mainly the white position indicator on them. Does anyone else have slider caps like these?

After gas-ing for a Mark III for about 7 years I picked this up for $600. Cool little side note, after opening it up I found my amp was finished only 2 weeks after I was born. 8) I plan to send it back to MB for the R2 volume mod, switchable + mod, cap job (and anything else needed), pentode/triode switch, new jewel and pots, and a new faceplate and my mark III will be reborn. Probably going to cost a couple pennies though.

 

[Markedman]

I've got both blue and a black/no stripe Mark lll's and they sound completely different to my ears. The Black is 60/100 and the blue simul-class so there's a difference there to begin with but the tubes make a huge difference for sure. The blue is grittier and more compressed sounding. I tried an Amperex Bugle Boy in V1 in the blue because after trying a dozen or more different ax7's in my Black I thought the BB was the best but not in the blue, it likes an old GE in V1 that was harmonic in both the Black and in my Mark IV. The blue is closer in sound to the Mark IV than it is to the Black III. I use the blue for metal shows and the black for classic rock and blues.

 

[megavoice]

I've already told about my two reds that they both sound different. Just try what I've done:
Swap all the tubes crosswise, all the MESAs from the one and put them into the other amp and the same with the second and let us see your result.
But to get a similar result you have to switch the green from pentode to triode like the blue is.
Note also that a reconed EVM does sound different as an original.
And think about mods that might have been done on the amps previously

 

[jkkkjkhk]

I've got both blue and a black/no stripe Mark lll's and they sound completely different to my ears. The Black is 60/100 and the blue simul-class so there's a difference there to begin with but the tubes make a huge difference for sure. The blue is grittier and more compressed sounding. I tried an Amperex Bugle Boy in V1 in the blue because after trying a dozen or more different ax7's in my Black I thought the BB was the best but not in the blue, it likes an old GE in V1 that was harmonic in both the Black and in my Mark IV. The blue is closer in sound to the Mark IV than it is to the Black III. I use the blue for metal shows and the black for classic rock and blues.

Thanks, that's definitely interesting. Does the blue seem to have more gain, or is it just the voicing?

I've already told about my two reds that they both sound different. Just try what I've done:
Swap all the tubes crosswise, all the MESAs from the one and put them into the other amp and the same with the second and let us see your result.
But to get a similar result you have to switch the green from pentode to triode like the blue is.
Note also that a reconed EVM does sound different as an original.
And think about mods that might have been done on the amps previously

I'd love to do that but unfortunately I don't own the red stripe. It was for sale at a guitar center I used to work at, short head in clean condition, they somehow got $1400 for it! But my green isn't modded to my knowledge, at the least there's nothing in the c30 spot, outside that I don't know. The red I didn't get to open up so who knows. Also both were going into the same cab switching back and forth so the cab was out of the equation. Pretty much down to the tubes and the stripes.

 

[Markedman]

Thanks, that's definitely interesting. Does the blue seem to have more gain, or is it just the voicing?

Yeah, the blue has more gain in all the channels, especially channel 2. Channel 2 in the black is very clean, only a touch dirtier than channel 1, whereas channel 2 in the blue is crunchy and closer in sound to channel 3. The overall gain is smoother in the blue and more modern sounding, brighter but not abrasive. I would say they're unbelievably different sounding for being the same model amp actually. Black presence knob @ 10, blue - 5ish.

 

[jkkkjkhk]

Thanks, that's definitely interesting. Does the blue seem to have more gain, or is it just the voicing?

Yeah, the blue has more gain in all the channels, especially channel 2. Channel 2 in the black is very clean, only a touch dirtier than channel 1, whereas channel 2 in the blue is crunchy and closer in sound to channel 3. The overall gain is smoother in the blue and more modern sounding, brighter but not abrasive. I would say they're unbelievably different sounding for being the same model amp actually. Black presence knob @ 10, blue - 5ish.

Wow, good to know, thanks. Is channel 1 on the black cleaner as well? I can definitely get some good clean tones from my green but I have to keep the levels (vol 1 and master) pretty low or it starts to breakup.

 

[igfraso]

According to Ian Dickey, who put up the Boogie Files, stripes development was as follows:

#1 - No mark or a little Black dot
- Lean and powerful amp with more output power than a IIC+

#2 - Purple: Reshaping of R2
- R2 was shaped to be more "rounded" and less gain, with improved level

#3 - Red: Final R2
- R2 further developed and very hot. Lead mode is also tweaked to close in on the IIC+ sound

#4 - Blue: Reshaping of R1
- More aggressive preamp gain, reshaping of R1. Power section made akin to IIC+

#5 - Green: Final R1 and Final Lead channel
- Cleaner R1, Lead channel reshaping. Unlike other Simul-Class amps, these Mark III's were wired in Pentode (NOT triode) in the Class A sockets for more power. Power section is same as Blue otherwise.

 

[jkkkjkhk]

According to Ian Dickey, who put up the Boogie Files, stripes development was as follows:

#1 - No mark or a little Black dot
- Lean and powerful amp with more output power than a IIC+

#2 - Purple: Reshaping of R2
- R2 was shaped to be more "rounded" and less gain, with improved level

#3 - Red: Final R2
- R2 further developed and very hot. Lead mode is also tweaked to close in on the IIC+ sound

#4 - Blue: Reshaping of R1
- More aggressive preamp gain, reshaping of R1. Power section made akin to IIC+

#5 - Green: Final R1 and Final Lead channel
- Cleaner R1, Lead channel reshaping. Unlike other Simul-Class amps, these Mark III's were wired in Pentode (NOT triode) in the Class A sockets for more power. Power section is same as Blue otherwise.

Thank you, yes I've read that many time and it's great info, just trying to hear from some other people who have experience with these.

 

[Markedman]

Is channel 1 on the black cleaner as well?

Well, I have the volume at 8-9 for channel 1 for both amps so there isn't any chiming clean happening for either amp. I use the volume knob on my guitar to clean up the tone when needed but as far as which is cleaner? I'd say it's a tie with my preference for the blue with simul-class. The EL34's give it a little bit more grittiness which I like. I imagine if I liked clean clear sound, I'd stick with my Marshalls or Fender twin, or buy a Roland Jazz Chorus. Mark lll's are very aggressive in attack compared to laid back Fender, Marshall, etc., that's why I own them. I have many, many amps and can afford to buy a Dumble if I wanted, or any amp that's made. I can't stand guitar sound that isn't aggressive, even if it's clean. Eric Johnson & Mike Stern are coming to my town to a 300 seat theatre. I saw them together there last year and wanted to jump up on stage and "fix" their tone, at least take the pillows off their speakers. Their tone is so muffled and compressed it is disturbing to me. Even Allen Holdsworth had more life in his tone. Great players, hideous tone. Rory Gallagher had great clean tone. Jeff Beck, Roy Buchanan and the guys from "Between the Buried and Me" also have awesome cleans I prefer.

 

[megavoice]

....I can't stand guitar sound that isn't aggressive,......[/quote]

I know what you mean, in general me too, but please note !!! In the common mix the guitar has to be tamed down (and sometimes drastically). First the singer will goodbye himself and very soon the others too if things will go wrong completely......
Guitar - players are very used to their sound when playing alone and want to have it alike with the band.
This will never work with all i.ex. the cymbals or the trebles of the keyboards.
In the professional scene every professional engineer will cut down the guitar.
I know that many of those who are reading this now would like to hang me on the next tree, but the harmonics of a distorted guitar are very "distructive" and to a certain degree we have to accept this and live with.
So when listening to a live sound of a famous artist in most cases it's the result of the managing of the sound engineer...................

 

[jkkkjkhk]

Got a new question for you guys, didn't think I should make a new thread just for this. I see the EQ toggle switch is Auto, Out, and In. Did they ever make just a 2 way switch, from Auto to In? If not then that looks like one more thing that's not stock on my amp, mine has no "middle" position for the EQ toggle switch. I leave the EQ on always so it doesn't bother me in the least, just never thought about it.

 

[megavoice]

I've never heard now in the last 27 years of a EQ 2 way toggle switch ?????
But as the items had been in the 80s mostly custom orders it's likely that s.o. would have needed one....
Obviously the EQ switches are more prone to get broken as when I've bought my second III used, it came along with a black plastic one - but three position.......

 

[jkkkjkhk]

I've never heard now in the last 27 years of a EQ 2 way toggle switch ?????
But as the items had been in the 80s mostly custom orders it's likely that s.o. would have needed one....
Obviously the EQ switches are more prone to get broken as when I've bought my second III used, it came along with a black plastic one - but three position.......

My standby switch has been replaced as well, doesn't match the others, this amps going to need quite an overhaul.

 

[RVW]

Hey guys, I have a chance to pickup a mk 111 in either blk dot or red strip w/ celestial speaker, your thoughts, pro & cons if there is any

 

[megavoice]

Hey guys, I have a chance to pickup a mk 111 in either blk dot or red strip w/ celestial speaker, your thoughts, pro & cons if there is any

The varieties of music styles are pretty huge, so you cannot avoid checking both by your own at the end, even when someone over here has boths and will give you advices.
When I see that s.o. tells he's playing Crunch with a red I get scared, and even more when he gives audio examples, but although it's not my taste it's a very good fit
So get there and check by playing your own style....... :wink:
My reds i.ex. are enough agressive fore me and very tonal sounding, other ones need a blue for "this", you see ?
There are also people who play ONLY Jazz and need only the Clean channel, other ones only the R2 for Crunch, and mostly solo players the LEAD. And every one of these in many cases likes another stripe colour....................
You should also check different speakers and cabs........

 

[CoG]

Necroing this thread because I have been side by siding my green and my new 'collectible' red all afternoon. I would... let's say I would challenge someone to tell the difference between these amps in even a very sparse mix. I'm using the exact same power tubes. I can't say R2 is an exactly apples to apples comparison because the green has the volume mod and the red doesn't, but there's no difference there that breathing on the red's Treble knob wouldn't wipe out.

There's certainly nothing like the difference between the green and the purple I used to have.

 

[Texas]

Necroing this thread because I have been side by siding my green and my new 'collectible' red all afternoon. I would... let's say I would challenge someone to tell the difference between these amps in even a very sparse mix. I'm using the exact same power tubes. I can't say R2 is an exactly apples to apples comparison because the green has the volume mod and the red doesn't, but there's no difference there that breathing on the red's Treble knob wouldn't wipe out.

There's certainly nothing like the difference between the green and the purple I used to have.

Are the red stripes considered more collectible now?

Also, to a question way back in the thread — my Mark IIB has a two way switch for EQ in or out, but none of my Mark IIIs (all of which are three way).

 

[CoG]

Necroing this thread because I have been side by siding my green and my new 'collectible' red all afternoon. I would... let's say I would challenge someone to tell the difference between these amps in even a very sparse mix. I'm using the exact same power tubes. I can't say R2 is an exactly apples to apples comparison because the green has the volume mod and the red doesn't, but there's no difference there that breathing on the red's Treble knob wouldn't wipe out.

There's certainly nothing like the difference between the green and the purple I used to have.

Are the red stripes considered more collectible now?

Also, to a question way back in the thread — my Mark IIB has a two way switch for EQ in or out, but none of my Mark IIIs (all of which are three way).

I don't think so, but it was an unbelievably clean and completely unmodded loaded combo at a decent price so I jumped on it as more of a collector's item. My green has DIY R2 and reverb mods and is a combo to head conversion, it's definitely a player.

 

[DimePantera1]

Hello
Lot's of great info on the Mark 3 series amps


I am looking for a Mark 3 blue strip coliseum.
If anyone knows of one for sale - I'll pay big cash - $$$$ to the seller & a finders fee- $$$$ .

Cheers.

 

[rgx612a]

Green stripes are the best version of the Mark III because of the pentode outer pair of power tubes, so they've got extra punch and are kinda similar to the early Mark IVa. Mark IV's are my all time fav Mark amps. I had a Mark III red stripe and I think my current MK IV is a much better amplifier, more capable of getting that liquid lead tone, and a fatter sounding amp overall. Gotta use that Mesa recto cab though. Try two of them for a huge guitar sound!