Mark III -Blue vs Green ...thoughts? advice? nuclear option?

[edward]

Hi all,

I a have been getting rapid education in MarkIII -ness as I am venturing into new Mesa ground (being a DC-5 lover for about a decade), so thanks for the patience and advice!!

So after reading/asking here, I scored what I hope to be a nice Simul Head w/graphic for $500 (I think that's good, no?). The price seemed like one perk, but also am plenty excited over it since it was a Blue stripe. Now after all this reading (and never really having played much through one), I'm thinking, "yeah, scored a Blue one!"

So now that it's packed and on its way to me, the seller's girlfriend now says "you know, I think that kind looks like a turquoise or green-ish stripe" and the seller NOW wishes to confess he may be color blind!!

...should I panic? Should I expect a major difference in "MkIII flavor" as it were? Keep in mind that I've wanted a classic Mark sound for some time now, but only having played through a III for maybe 30 minues and NOT even on my own guitar, I don't feel I have even close enough of an idea of how it "should" sound. And the non-Class-A of the green (if that is what I get) concerns me ...what'll be the sonic differences? Is a Green less of a III ...don't mean to offend Green owners, but is it "that" different? I've read it ventures more into IV territory?


For reference, copped from the "other" board

#4 - Blue: Reshaping of R1
- More aggressive preamp gain - reshaping of R1, Power section made akin to IIC+
VS:
#5 - Green/Simul-Class: Final R1 and Lead Channel reshaping
- Cleaner R1, Lead channel reshaping, and unlike other Simul amps, these Mark III's were wired in Pentode - NOT triode in the Class A sockets for more power. Power section is same as Blue otherwise.

Alrighty. I vented and am a bit panicked. Calm me down, or smack some sense into me. Phew. Thanks for listening and the coming advice!!

Edward

 

[BPski]

I have owned a black dot, red, blue and green. To me the differences were subtle. Mostly on the Lead channel. Red was my favorite but again was subtle. If your amp is Simul Class then the EL34 sockets are wired for pentode and will give the amp a little more zip and will feel a little faster. I think for $500 you cannot go wrong. You may be able to swap some parts to get closer to another stripe color's sound.

Probably has Reverb, correct??

Hope this helps.

 

[JOEY B.]

If the head is in good shape, $500 for a red, blue or green stripe is a good enough deal to make the stripe color a non issue. I had a green stripe for a short while, and I would NOT consider it less of an amp than the triode versions. :shock: Give it a chance, I think you'll like it. If you just can't live without triode in Class A, there once was some talk of installing a pentode/triode switch in the green stripes. I can't remember which of the board members it was though.

 

[scottcrud]

dude, you got a smokin' deal!

 

[Boogiebabies]

No offense taken.

The Green Stripe is class A on the outer sockets. It's just wired for pentode instead of triode. It's the end of the evolution and stayed this way from 1990 to 1998. Either way, $ 500 is a great deal since the III is on the rise.

 

[edward]

Whew! Thanks for the encouragement, guys! As a Mark ignoramous (albeit learning due to your guys, and this fine board with a good archive!!), I appreciate the feedback, especially from owners of the diff stripes ...thanks!!!

And as for the price, yeah, I thought it seemed like a smokin deal, too. But I don't have it in my hands yet so.... I am on pins and needles: Eager to own a legend, yet HOPING too that it is what it is, not thrashed, and not misrepresented in how it was described. For the price, it seemed like a good roll of the dice. Wish me luck! I will report back in a week upon it's arrival.

Edward

 

[Ed Mullins]

I own both blue and green stripe MkIII heads. The difference between them is subtle. My opinion of which is better changes weekly. They are both great amps. I play in a cheesy wedding band and cover everything from Steely Dan to Greenday. The MkIII will do it all. For $500 you can't go wrong. Enjoy.

 

[Buddy]

That is a great deal . Congrats ! The markIII is a powerful and versatile amp . Its a good thing ... A VERY GOOD THING .
Be careful though , Tinnutus before you know it .

And Ed , playing in a wedding band is a total trip . I'm amazed at the s!!! that goes down . Fromage rules !

 

[Restless Rocks]

Yeah, when you see the Bride's maids kick off their slippers it's time to loosen your bow tie!! 8)

 

[Ed Mullins]

Yeah, when you see the Bride's maids kick off their slippers it's time to loosen your bow tie!!

So true.

 

[edward]

Just an update for anyone interested:

It's a Green. Simulclass, graphic, no verb. But all works great, only one scratchy pot but no cutting out, all pots and eq sliders smooth, insides look super clean and unmolested! Cosmetically about an 8.5 out of 10 (in a rack kit so no cab).

If you've seen any of my MkIII - related threads, you'll gather that I have grown to really love this thing! Some tube experimentation and judicious swaps, and learning it's functions and wow! This amp simply rocks! And so versatile!! once I figured out how to balance the eq-ing between R1,R2, and Lead channels. It really shines with the EV, too, compared with the Black Shadow (which I love in my DC) ...it's as if the III's tone were married with the EVL's voice as the two really work well together, more so than with the MC90 IMHO.

So anyway, a huge thanks to all that help me with this new acquisition!!!

Edward

 

[Tuna141]

Excellent. Congratulations!

If you perform the R2 volume mod, and you'll have no problem balancing R2 & the Lead channel volumes. It's realtively simple and works well.
There's some good threads w/photos on the forum, so you should be able to find the info no problem.

 

[JimAnsell]

buy it.
the green stripe is awesome.

you can always get a pen/tri switch for those outer two sockets.
the green stripe also has the same OT as the dreaded c+ that everyone hates :wink:

**** r2 by the way.
you want r2, buy a mark IV.
**** modding it too.
i say this because the clean takes dirt boxes very well.
so you can use whatever dirt box that floats your boat instead of the stock r2 that shares all the eq controls.

 

[Shep]

buy it.
the green stripe is awesome.

you can always get a pen/tri switch for those outer two sockets.
the green stripe also has the same OT as the dreaded c+ that everyone hates :wink:

f%&# r2 by the way.
you want r2, buy a mark IV.
f%&# modding it too.
i say this because the clean takes dirt boxes very well.
so you can use whatever dirt box that floats your boat instead of the stock r2 that shares all the eq controls.

the simlu blue stripe had the 562003 tranny in it to..

 

[Schmoog]

buy it.
the green stripe is awesome.

you can always get a pen/tri switch for those outer two sockets.
the green stripe also has the same OT as the dreaded c+ that everyone hates :wink:

f%&# r2 by the way.
you want r2, buy a mark IV.
f%&# modding it too.
i say this because the clean takes dirt boxes very well.
so you can use whatever dirt box that floats your boat instead of the stock r2 that shares all the eq controls.

Actually, only some green stripes had the C+ tranny, later green stripes had the IVA OT. Far as I know, all the blue stripes, later reds, and early greens have the C+ tranny. On my Blue, I have pent/tri switches on both sets of tubes, so I can get 15 watts Class A, 25 watts Class A, 50 watts A/B, 75 watts A/B, and 85 watts A/B.

as far as the R2 goes, I quite like the R2 channel on my III, it needs the volume mod, but its a nice, very dynamic, touch sensitive channel. If you know how to control dynamics and volume with your playing, R2 is awesome. As far as modding it, do what you gotta do. there aren't a whole heck of a lot of mods out there for the III, but some of them are very nice. the III+ mod is supposed to be well worth it, as is the reverb mod. the R2 mod is very practical, and I've heard talk about an alternate lead Vol 1 mod, but I can't pin down actually how to do this one.

 

[edward]

the simlu blue stripe had the 562003 tranny in it to..

I have the 562003 Simul tranny. But I called Mesa and while I could not speak directly with Mike B., the tech I spoke to relayed my s/n and tranny #s info and told me that Mike is 99% sure that mine is an early Green ...right on the "cusp" he said as the "8/89" marking written underneath puts it at the end of the Blue and beginning of the Green. The stripe to my eyes looks Green, and so with Mike B's words, that's what I'm calling it

I'm really finding some great tones in it! The cleans are marvelous, period! Big, deep, and chimey with great definition in the mids. The Lead channel has amazing range: from 3-7 on the Lead Drive, there is a huge range of Lead tones that are simply dripping with tone! ...yes, I am really diggin my new Mark, as if I captured a legend of sorts.

Another very unexpected bonus, too, is that I am appreciating more how good my DC5 is. I've loved my DC, for many years now, but A/B with the Mark really gives me a greater respect for how great these DCs are. Someone told me years ago that the DC line was Boogie's "bargain" amp ...and the newbie I was, I believed it and always had that nagging feeling like I got the "low end" Boog. No more. With the few tube changes I made, my DC can hang right in there with my MKIII ...not the same exact voice mind you, but still VERY nice Boogie richness through and through.

Hey Schmoog,
I am very interested in the pen/tri switch mods!! I would love to have that option in both the outer ELs as well as the inner 6L6s. Please, do tell. Is it difficult? I'm good with a soldering iron and can read rudimentary schems as long as it's not too involved a mod. Any links, pics, and instructions ....I'd really appreciate it!!!

BTW, I heartily agree on R2. It's great channel, and I finally got it dialed in to where I adjust my playing dynamics a bit and the R2 sounds just as it should: crunchy and bluesy. A nice "3rd option" to have!

Edward

 

[Schmoog]

Its really an easy mod. all mesa does is connect I believe pins 4 and 5 on the tubes over a resistor to create triode. and disconnecting that resistor makes it pentode. actually, that is the definitive way to tell between green and blue stripes. if there is a resistor between pins 4 and 5 on the outer pair then its a blue stripe, if they are not connected, its a green stripe. I had my amp tech do the mod for me while he had it. but all he did was take double pole on-off switches (he used the same ones used for standby and power) and wire them to pins 4 and 5. switchwise I asked him to use a regular power switch, I like the beefier feel of it cause i'm a spaz and break lesser switches. this guy over at mojotone will do the trick: http://www.mojomusicalsupply.com/item.asp?pid=17492&pg=13797&id=4111300

so to wire it it looks like this, end of the resistor soldered to pin 4 on each tube. one wire from each resistor to the poles of the switch. (so the leftmost tube is pole 1, and the rightmost tube is pole 2) then one wire from the other end of the pole back to pin 5 on the respective tube socket. that way, when the switch is in off position, you have pentode, and when it is in the on position you have triode. if you do this with the outer tubes, you can effectively switch between blue stripe and green stripe. simply buy two switches (and resistors) and repeat for the inner tubes, and you can totally customize your power section to your needs.

oh, and if you like R2, consider the R2 volume mod, so its actually useable in a live situation. and let us know what your settings are! I'm always looking for some new things to try out.

 

[edward]

Schmoog, you rock! Thanks for the specifics! A couple of things, though:

1. Where did you choose to mount the two switches (curious ...pics?)
2. What's the value and wattage of said resistors?
3. Are the power tube pins accessible w/o taking out the PCB or will I have to remove it? ...and if so, is there anything I should know or is it a straightforward removal?

And yes, I already ordered the pot and knob from Mesa to do the R2 volume mod ...I do plan on using it live. Oh, and thanks for the info on the resistor between pins 4-5 ...I will determine once and for all what color she is. Can you post a pic of where you put your switches?

Edward

 

[psychodave]

Its really an easy mod. all mesa does is connect I believe pins 4 and 5 on the tubes over a resistor to create triode. and disconnecting that resistor makes it pentode. actually, that is the definitive way to tell between green and blue stripes. if there is a resistor between pins 4 and 5 on the outer pair then its a blue stripe, if they are not connected, its a green stripe. I had my amp tech do the mod for me while he had it. but all he did was take double pole on-off switches (he used the same ones used for standby and power) and wire them to pins 4 and 5. switchwise I asked him to use a regular power switch, I like the beefier feel of it cause i'm a spaz and break lesser switches. this guy over at mojotone will do the trick: http://www.mojomusicalsupply.com/item.asp?pid=17492&pg=13797&id=4111300

so to wire it it looks like this, end of the resistor soldered to pin 4 on each tube. one wire from each resistor to the poles of the switch. (so the leftmost tube is pole 1, and the rightmost tube is pole 2) then one wire from the other end of the pole back to pin 5 on the respective tube socket. that way, when the switch is in off position, you have pentode, and when it is in the on position you have triode. if you do this with the outer tubes, you can effectively switch between blue stripe and green stripe. simply buy two switches (and resistors) and repeat for the inner tubes, and you can totally customize your power section to your needs.

oh, and if you like R2, consider the R2 volume mod, so its actually useable in a live situation. and let us know what your settings are! I'm always looking for some new things to try out.

Any pics? 8) I am considering doing this to my blue stripe (has 1/2 power switch), but having all 4 tubes either wired Pentode or Triode. How is the Mark IV wired up ?

 

[Schmoog]

so I went and actually looked at what my tech did and there is a couple corrections. first, he used a DPDT On-On toggle, not a DPST On-Off. what happens is that in triode, the screen grid resistor, connected to pin 4, is connected to pin 3. in pentode, it is connected to the same tap that the resistors for the inner pair is connected to. this is how the pentode-triode switching works in the mark IV. my tech simply applied the same principle to the inner tubes so that in triode the resistor is connected from 4 to 3, in pentode it's to the tap on the small PCB. the schematic for the power section to the mark IV is pretty plain. check it out