Mark IIC++ Hetfield mod

[zodiac272]

Hey,

Anybody ever have any experience with a IIC++? How much would it cost? I just sent my IIC (HRG) in for the upgrade ($400) to Mike B.
I will call Mike B to discuss, but i was curious what some people thought about it? I was searching for some clips on youtube, but couldn't find any. I don't really use the verb all that much, but I'm not sure if I want to sacrifice it for the ++. I'm pretty sure I'll never sell the amp, and I'll probably want another loaded factory C+ (DRG). Would it be a crazy idea to use the 8 ohm speaker jack for the ++? I use a thiele and an open back compact cab, both running thru the 4 ohm jacks. I'm pretty sure I can run a 4x12 off a 4 ohm jack right?

anyway, thanks again for your thoughts.

scott

 

[dodger916]

I'm pretty sure I can run a 4x12 off a 4 ohm jack right?

Running four 16 ohm speakers or two 8 ohm speakers in parallel will yield 4 ohms.

 

[zodiac272]

ok, but I'm pretty sure I can run a traditional recto with four 8 ohm speakers in stereo using the two 4 ohm jacks on the back of the head.

 

[DaveP]

I owned a factory C++ and I found the 26db gain boost in the clean channel a bit extreme. It is switchable but once you have your
clean dialed in and you hit the C++ boost it blows you away. It's not controllable it's just there, BAM!
The boost the the lead channel isn't as extreme at only 6db or so gain. It adds a hair around the existing gain but it's very subtle.
Would I pay to have it done? No. I didn't think the mod actually added anything usable to what the C+ already had to offer.

 

[JimAnsell]

i'll try and get some clips made of mine in the next few days for you guys.

 

[mxr2000]

hello could you be kind to explain to me what a IIC++ plus is all about and how this affect the overall amp sound or the use of the amp vs the regular IIc+

 

[zodiac272]

Hey,

the ++ mod adds another 20 or 26 db of boost to both channels. The best way to do it is sacrifice the reverb or whatever you want and use the hole for a footswitch jack. from what I have heard, the ++ mod also sacrifices the clean channel and makes it dirty. Channel 2 is in your face high gain. I say all this never having heard one, but reading whatever I could find. I'm not sure if you could just put a boost pedal in front and do the same thing for a lot less money.

scott

 

[DaveP]

hello could you be kind to explain to me what a IIC++ plus is all about and how this affect the overall amp sound or the use of the amp vs the regular IIc+

Having owned one I can tell you a little about it.
The middle control when pulled engages the mod. Pushed in the amp is stock.
In the clean mode it increases the gain quite a bit, 20-26db as was stated in the previous posts. In the
lead channel it is only approx a 6db boost. Adds a little hair around the stock gain tone.
I didn't find the mod very useful as the boost was extreme in the clean channel. Not sure why or how you would
use this. It is not adjustable either. There is a jack on the bottom of the chassis to switch it in and out.
Mesa made approx 12 of these with this mod from the factory others were upgraded later by users.
Hope that helps.

 

[mxr2000]

hello could you be kind to explain to me what a IIC++ plus is all about and how this affect the overall amp sound or the use of the amp vs the regular IIc+

Having owned one I can tell you a little about it.
The middle control when pulled engages the mod. Pushed in the amp is stock.
In the clean mode it increases the gain quite a bit, 20-26db as was stated in the previous posts. In the
lead channel it is only approx a 6db boost. Adds a little hair around the stock gain tone.
I didn't find the mod very useful as the boost was extreme in the clean channel. Not sure why or how you would
use this. It is not adjustable either. There is a jack on the bottom of the chassis to switch it in and out.
Mesa made approx 12 of these with this mod from the factory others were upgraded later by users.
Hope that helps.

thanks... took it to a tech and he told me that it was a mod done by someone else...

 

[Anonymous]

Post removed.

 

[kdorsey]

Off topic, but still related.

Would this mod be similar to how the MkIII Mid knob boosts Lead drive when pulled?

That's a good question. I've never seen any specs quantifying the boost seen when the R2 switch is pulled w/ Lead. But I kinda doubt it's anywhere close to 23dB! Maybe 6-8dB like stated above.

 

[Audiokill]

I own a C++ (DRG) modded by Mike B. at Mesa. There is no pull switch on the mid knob, nor a modded reverb jack. In fact, there is no way to simply "switch" back to regular C+ mode unless I had the ++ mod reversed.

With that said, I can't really give A/B comparisons between a C++ and a C+, but I can say that the additional gain you get from a C++ mod done by Mesa is rather modest. Also, the graphic eq is voiced a bit differently according to Mike B, but again, it's not night and day. My C++ is a great sounding amp, but you may feel that what is essentially a different flavor of the C+ is not worth the sky high cost unless you absolutely MUST explore the same amp that Metallica and Dream Theater used on their better sounding albums.

 

[gts]

Bring out your dead.......

 

[chipaudette]

...but I'm not dead yet!


Seriously, while this is a beaten horse, I still have not seen a schematic showing what was done to make the IIC++ mod (or Hetfield mod or Petrucci mod, or whatever). Until I see a schematic, I'm still curious about what people have to say about it...thinking that maybe I can piece something together.

Schematics? Anyone? Us circuit nerds are dying to know!

Chip

 

[Big Block]

Why ruin an amp with enough gain as it is??

I think anyone who wants to mod a C+ to a C++ should just buy a different amp.

 

[Audiokill]

Big Block, I'm in total agreement with you about the so-called C++ home mods (or at least all the ones I've seen) which typically consist of the installation of a 2nd "volume 1" pot or an extra switch or push/pull somewhere. I'm no tech, but that's not what the factory C++ mod is at all and I have no idea whether these guys know what they're doing. Though it would be interesting to hear some of these home modded amps for myself (maybe they actually do sound good), I doubt the jimmy rigging helps the resale value and I struggle to even refer to them as C++s. If I'm off base here, someone please school me.

On the other hand, the real C++ mod done by Mike Bendinellli isn't going to ruin anything (except for maybe the size of your bank account) as it is 100% reversible. Have you ever heard a C++? They sound fantastic. Also, keep in mind that the mighty Mark IIC+ is really nothing more than a factory mod of the original IIC, with the C+ mod providing a somewhat different voicing and slightly increased gain. But wait, the IIC already had plenty of gain and sounded killer. Didn't the C+ mod ruin it? Hell no, and the same story goes for the C++.

I guess my point is, not all mods throw paint on the proverbial Mona Lisa. The C++ is not some Jose Arrendondo-ish hot-rodded C+ with more gain than what is usable, despite what many seem to believe. Not even close. My Mark III has more gain. I went out of my way to find a Mesa modded C++ and I couldn't be happier. Besides sounding really good, I think the amp is rather special and unique. According to Mike B., there are about twelve legitimate C++ amps in existence. Twelve! That's amazing considering the substantial footprint these amps have left in recorded music. Now if only the regular C+ would stop hogging all the credit... :roll:

 

[chipaudette]

Also, keep in mind that the mighty Mark IIC+ is really nothing more than a factory mod of the original IIC, with the C+ mod providing a somewhat different voicing and slightly increased gain. But wait, the IIC already had plenty of gain and sounded killer.

The IIC+ is actually very different from a IIC. I had a IIC. After much playing and after tracing out the schematic, I knew that amp pretty well. I then sent it to Mike B for him to mod it to turn it into a IIC+. The amount of work that is necessary to do the upgrade is pretty impressive...circuit elements have to be swapped, gain-stages have to be re-ordered, and the effects loop put later in the signal chain so that it doesn't screw up the cascading overdrive. When I got the amp back, I traced out the new circuit and (obviously) I've played it extensively. In circuit, in sound, and in feel, the IIC+ is quite different from the IIC, especially in the lead channel.

I think that a major source of confusion is in the name "IIC+", which implies more relation to the IIC than actually exists. No one would confuse a IIB with a IIC(+), and no one should confuse a IIC with a IIC+. So, in my opinion (and I'm not alone), it should NOT have been called the "Mark IIC+"...it really should have been called the "Mark IID".

Clearly I'm nitpicking the least-important part of your message. Sorry. Your main points -- the ones about the IIC++ -- are totally sound...you'll get no argument from me there. I'm merely offering to you that your comparison of the IIC vs IIC+ could use some re-assessment.

Chip

 

[GuitarPlayer]

Hey guys, I have one of the few factory Mark II C++ and here is what it does .. first to identify it, look on the back on top of the power cord regular Mark II C+ have one + up there mine has 2 pluses.. The Mark II C++ added feature is only one. Its a mid boost on the middle pot .. Its really nice to pull it for soloing.. It adds extra bite and character to and already unique sounding amp putting it even further away on its own league.. I think any C+ is nice but mine Just smokes any amp Ive own or had.. My MarkV is going to collect a bit of dust.. or maybe not cause today I stoped trying to dial a C+ on the Mark V cause it doesn't get to sound anywhere near a C+ anyways and just dialed in a mark IV sound that was pretty impressive.. But then again I think I should sell the MarkV and get a MarkIV .. one of the only things holding me back is the tweed mode on channel 1 and ahhh crunch on channel 2 is nice.. Well C+ is the amp.. wish mesa would make a 5 thousand unit reissue so more people could experience that real Boogie roar ... How do I post pics Of my C++ in here?

 

[GuitarPlayer]

Why ruin an amp with enough gain as it is??

I think anyone who wants to mod a C+ to a C++ should just buy a different amp.

C++ is just an extra feature to the amp guy! I have a factory C++ .. All it does is when I pull the middle pot I have a mid boost on my sound , rhythm or lead channel.. Its nice.. single note play or soloing has more bite.

 

[GuitarPlayer]

Big Block, I'm in total agreement with you about the so-called C++ home mods (or at least all the ones I've seen) which typically consist of the installation of a 2nd "volume 1" pot or an extra switch or push/pull somewhere. I'm no tech, but that's not what the factory C++ mod is at all and I have no idea whether these guys know what they're doing. Though it would be interesting to hear some of these home modded amps for myself (maybe they actually do sound good), I doubt the jimmy rigging helps the resale value and I struggle to even refer to them as C++s. If I'm off base here, someone please school me.

On the other hand, the real C++ mod done by Mike Bendinellli isn't going to ruin anything (except for maybe the size of your bank account) as it is 100% reversible. Have you ever heard a C++? They sound fantastic. Also, keep in mind that the mighty Mark IIC+ is really nothing more than a factory mod of the original IIC, with the C+ mod providing a somewhat different voicing and slightly increased gain. But wait, the IIC already had plenty of gain and sounded killer. Didn't the C+ mod ruin it? Hell no, and the same story goes for the C++.

I guess my point is, not all mods throw paint on the proverbial Mona Lisa. The C++ is not some Jose Arrendondo-ish hot-rodded C+ with more gain than what is usable, despite what many seem to believe. Not even close. My Mark III has more gain. I went out of my way to find a Mesa modded C++ and I couldn't be happier. Besides sounding really good, I think the amp is rather special and unique. According to Mike B., there are about twelve legitimate C++ amps in existence. Twelve! That's amazing considering the substantial footprint these amps have left in recorded music. Now if only the regular C+ would stop hogging all the credit... :roll:

C++ is just an extra feature to the amp guy! I have a factory C++ .. All it does is when I pull the middle pot I have a mid boost on my sound , rhythm or lead channel.. Its nice.. single note play or soloing has more bite. And yeah, I have 1 out of 12 factory C++ I will never sell it! Not even 1000000.. unless mesa made me another one for 50 grand out of a million that wouldn't hurt lol