Mark II with and without EQ, are they voiced differently?

[woodbutcher65]

Simple question. Are Mark IIs voiced differently according to whether or not they have the optional EQ?

If so, what are the differences?

Same question applies to Mark IIIs.

 

[Jay Omega]

Simple question. Are Mark IIs voiced differently according to whether or not they have the optional EQ?

If so, what are the differences?

Same question applies to Mark IIIs.

Not intentionally. There is one capacitor different, I believe it’s outlined in the Mark V owners manual

 

[woodbutcher65]

I'm asking because I've noted that, generally speaking, Mark IIs tend to be very midrangey if you aren't using the equalizer that they have on them, but yet, some examples that don't have EQs tend to be more balanced in their general tone. In particular I've seen that no EQ Mark IIC+ amps seem to lack that excessive midrange push.

I have a IIB and it's pretty midrangey. (No EQ) If there's just a few simple component values to be changed to bring it into that tonal balance, it's something I'd certainly try doing. It's never going to sound like a IIC+ but taming the midrange would be well worth doing.

 

[Jay Omega]

I'm asking because I've noted that, generally speaking, Mark IIs tend to be very midrangey if you aren't using the equalizer that they have on them, but yet, some examples that don't have EQs tend to be more balanced in their general tone. In particular I've seen that no EQ Mark IIC+ amps seem to lack that excessive midrange push.

I have a IIB and it's pretty midrangey. (No EQ) If there's just a few simple component values to be changed to bring it into that tonal balance, it's something I'd certainly try doing. It's never going to sound like a IIC+ but taming the midrange would be well worth doing.

What cab / speaker are you using

 

[GJgo]

It's not an intentional voicing change, it's simply amp-to-amp variance & aging of components. In the IIs and IIIs if you play either a no-EQ amp or an amp with the EQ off, the majority of them have an obnoxious mid honk that's hard to dial out however there are some of them that sound killer. Of the 17 of them I've had I can think of 5 of them that were legit w/o the EQ. Here's one example.

4 of the ones I've had were no-EQ. So to add, the no-EQ models have better harmonics, a faster attack, sweeter sustain, and IMO better fundamental tone than an EQ model (say with the EQ turned off for direct comparison). In addition to the different cap mentioned there's also just less in the circuit.

Adding a GEQ or PEQ in the loop can be nice because you have the tonally sweeter amp. That said, the loop GEQ/PEQ itself will not be as tonally sweet as the onboard, so there is some give & take here. HOWEVER, you'll be saving a lot of money because the no-EQ amps sell for a lot less.

Based on my experience, in the bedroom I'd prefer the GEQ amp. For gigging though, I'd happily take a no-G amp with an EQ in the loop.

 

[woodbutcher65]

I have a variety of cabinets and speaker options to use. 1x12s with EVs, 2x12s with Celestion Greenbacks or V30s, 4x12s loaded with reissue Greenbacks, others with vintage Greenbacks, Creambacks...and more.

None of them obscure the basic tonality of the amp itself. You can still tell if the amp is really midrangey or not. Sure.

Given how tight Mesa is on component tolerances, I have to believe that this Mark II that's midrangey vs. this other Mark II that is more balanced, both being non-EQ versions, must have different component values in them somewhere. The difference is just too dramatic to attribute it only to component tolerance issues.

 

[Jay Omega]

I have a variety of cabinets and speaker options to use. 1x12s with EVs, 2x12s with Celestion Greenbacks or V30s, 4x12s loaded with reissue Greenbacks, others with vintage Greenbacks, Creambacks...and more.

None of them obscure the basic tonality of the amp itself. You can still tell if the amp is really midrangey or not. Sure.

Given how tight Mesa is on component tolerances, I have to believe that this Mark II that's midrangey vs. this other Mark II that is more balanced, both being non-EQ versions, must have different component values in them somewhere. The difference is just too dramatic to attribute it only to component tolerance issues.

I've had honk that I couldn't dial out, but it was always cabinet related. EV 12Ls were the worst offender. Now I have Boogie V30s in a Marshall slant, with some pillow stuffing in there and I'm pretty happy. The Boogie V30s sound way different to me vs normal Celestions

 

[user 41014]

If you add up the components with 20% tolerances alone and run the math your chances are better at winning the local lotto than getting two hand made amps that are the same.
I'm with Grand Jeremy who has sold many of those "honky love em or hate em EV's" to me! It would take getting a hold of Doug West's private stash or one of the pristine feeling amps for attack/decay and running a component autopsy on it as a single example of actual component values that work beautifully together.
It's not as if they order 1% or sort. Even if it was 1% the total mathematical variance gets huge fast.
And that doesn't take into consideration the magic of it all. What if an amp built on Friday was instilled with party magic and one on Monday has hung over somber magic down to a tee?!? You'll never hear me sayin all women are the same from a certain era.

 

[meesa_jarjar]

I'm asking because I've noted that, generally speaking, Mark IIs tend to be very midrangey if you aren't using the equalizer that they have on them, but yet, some examples that don't have EQs tend to be more balanced in their general tone. In particular I've seen that no EQ Mark IIC+ amps seem to lack that excessive midrange push.

I have a IIB and it's pretty midrangey. (No EQ) If there's just a few simple component values to be changed to bring it into that tonal balance, it's something I'd certainly try doing. It's never going to sound like a IIC+ but taming the midrange would be well worth doing.

No voicing differences I've seen from the various schems I've studied, but the EQ circuit does load down the signal differently and that can have an overall affect on tone / freq response.