While I feel that this is a good marketing spin, it is total ********!
This is exactly why there are no jobs here.
What happened to the 'Made In America' label?
Made in China!
- Thread starter Monsta-Tone
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While I feel that this is a good marketing spin, it is total ********!
This is exactly why there are no jobs here.
What happened to the 'Made In America' label?
i dont think it means enough to consumers anymore.. they dont wanna pay for homegrown quality, and companies want to maximize profits...
kinda sad, but so is the fact that congress votes to raise their own salaries, everyone just wants more for less
kinda sad, but so is the fact that congress votes to raise their own salaries, everyone just wants more for less
That's exactly my point!
We've become so entitled that nobody even wants to work.
In our contracting business, we have been through 61 employees in the last 3 1/2 years. Not one of them will be hired back. EVER!
Seems like most people these days just want a check and don't want to work.
Companies are over taxed, I should know!
But the problem is, when a company sees dollars alone and employees see their free ride disappearing, we end up in a recession. Granted, there are way more factors to this, but it is tragic.
If I ever trade my dignity in for a Mercedes, just ******* kill me!
We've become so entitled that nobody even wants to work.
In our contracting business, we have been through 61 employees in the last 3 1/2 years. Not one of them will be hired back. EVER!
Seems like most people these days just want a check and don't want to work.
Companies are over taxed, I should know!
But the problem is, when a company sees dollars alone and employees see their free ride disappearing, we end up in a recession. Granted, there are way more factors to this, but it is tragic.
If I ever trade my dignity in for a Mercedes, just ******* kill me!
I guess what sent me into a fervor, other than being out of beer, is that I'm looking for a stellar midi pedal.
I'm tired of this disposable society we've created, and I want something made in America.
I've gotten tons of advice that would steer me toward an All Access. It apparently will do everything that I want, but I don't want anymore Chinese products in my house!
I guess some small part of me is holding out and thinking that if more Americans start buying products made in America, the economy will start to get a little better at least!
On the upside though.....
Looks like the Ground Control Pro for me!
Those guys are great! I called 3 times on Tuesday and John answered all 3 times and answered every question I had without judgement.
I was asking him about a pedal that I got on ebay that was from '92 and he still was happy to talk to me!
That's how a company should be run!
I'm tired of this disposable society we've created, and I want something made in America.
I've gotten tons of advice that would steer me toward an All Access. It apparently will do everything that I want, but I don't want anymore Chinese products in my house!
I guess some small part of me is holding out and thinking that if more Americans start buying products made in America, the economy will start to get a little better at least!
On the upside though.....
Looks like the Ground Control Pro for me!
Those guys are great! I called 3 times on Tuesday and John answered all 3 times and answered every question I had without judgement.I was asking him about a pedal that I got on ebay that was from '92 and he still was happy to talk to me!
That's how a company should be run!
Due to the recession, a lot of Americans can't afford to buy products made in America. "Made in the USA" carries a hefty price tag, and at least in the guitar world recently, "Made in the USA" does not equate to the level of quality that it used to (ie: new Gibsons). Speaking purely out of self interest, I actually find it disadvantageous to buy American made products at times.
To a guy like me (broke ass college student), buying a cheaper alternative such as store brand plastic-ware over Glad can often means that I get to eat more than one meal a day for a little while. Sure, the cheaper stuff might break easier, or taste worse, or be funding somebody in a different country that I will never visit, but it's worth it to me for the time. That's just an example, I don't know if Glad is made in the USA or if store brand stuff is made overseas, but the point is the same.
Of course there are exceptions (Mesa being a great exception in my book), but a lot of times, there is not much of an advantage, if any.
It may seem selfish, but a guy's gotta look after himself before he can worry about everybody else, you know?
Edit: also in my defense, I like to consider myself a hard worker. Graveyard shifts unloading trucks isn't very fun!
To a guy like me (broke ass college student), buying a cheaper alternative such as store brand plastic-ware over Glad can often means that I get to eat more than one meal a day for a little while. Sure, the cheaper stuff might break easier, or taste worse, or be funding somebody in a different country that I will never visit, but it's worth it to me for the time. That's just an example, I don't know if Glad is made in the USA or if store brand stuff is made overseas, but the point is the same.
Of course there are exceptions (Mesa being a great exception in my book), but a lot of times, there is not much of an advantage, if any.
It may seem selfish, but a guy's gotta look after himself before he can worry about everybody else, you know?
Edit: also in my defense, I like to consider myself a hard worker. Graveyard shifts unloading trucks isn't very fun!
EleventhHour2139
Well-known member
Not to bash you dude, but it's spreading this kind of attitude that will keep things the way they are now. Most people are SHEEP and will pay more attention to what they read online than what their own perceptions and experiences tell them. This results in group think, preconceived notions, and bias without proof or experience thus tainting any chance the American business had in the first place. Now I'm not defending these companies that out-source, that's beyond utter bs :evil: . But for those who honestly run and live in this country, I think we owe it to OUR economy to support them. How can we expect things to get better here when the vast majority of American's are supporting companies which dump their capital into foreign markets? IMO, imported goods should be taxed enough such that the local businesses can compete to pay OUR FAMILIES, FRIENDS, AND NEIGHBORS to actually produce goods on a large scale again. Yes, everything will be more expensive. I too am a broke ass college student, but when possible I will go out of my way to buy American, even if it is more expensive. I love this country too damn much to see the greed of corporate pigs and the cheap and pride less ways of the average consumer destroy its economy.b0nkersx said:
I fully understand, I remember Ramen tasting so much better when I was in college.
Now, when my kids want it, I'll have a sandwich or something else!
The thing is, Made In America doesn't have to be so much more expensive.
I read an article once that was posed as a softball game between 2 rival teams.
The gist of the story is, 1 team could never win, no matter what they tried.
They tried firing everyone and re-hiring new talent, that didn't work.
They tried firing all of the management and hiring new talent, that didn't work.
They blamed the equipment they were using and got new uniforms and gloves, that didn't work.
In the end, the Japanese team kept winning.
This was a direct comparison between GM & Toyota. GM can't be profitable making cars here in America, but Toyota can make cars just down the road and make a hefty profit! All of this while using the same talent, same equipment, etc. but believing in what they do!
My point is, the entire country needs a complete paradigm shift.
Johnny doesn't want to work unless his benefits are garanteed for life.
Janey doesn't want to work if she can't time off for her dance competition.
Etc., etc., etc.
After 61 employees, I now have a more complete understanding of a portion of America's work force.
We have truly become the Land of Entitlement.
Now, I am not saying that everyone is like this, but there are enough of us that are like this to sway the ballance.
Corporations are taxed so heavily here in the states. They have to adhere to certain EPA laws, and upgrade equipment as needed. They have to pay certain wages and benefits.
Those same American corporations can build things off shore for a fraction of the price. There is no EPA in China or Korea or Indonesia. They pay their work force a mere pittance compared to what they pay American workers.
Yet they still charge us the same!!!!!!!! Rocktron didn't drop their prices dramatically to reflect the fact that their entire line of products costs them 30-50% less to make!
This is my point! Greed is greed. Complacency is complacency. ******** is ********!
Now, when my kids want it, I'll have a sandwich or something else!
The thing is, Made In America doesn't have to be so much more expensive.
I read an article once that was posed as a softball game between 2 rival teams.
The gist of the story is, 1 team could never win, no matter what they tried.
They tried firing everyone and re-hiring new talent, that didn't work.
They tried firing all of the management and hiring new talent, that didn't work.
They blamed the equipment they were using and got new uniforms and gloves, that didn't work.
In the end, the Japanese team kept winning.
This was a direct comparison between GM & Toyota. GM can't be profitable making cars here in America, but Toyota can make cars just down the road and make a hefty profit! All of this while using the same talent, same equipment, etc. but believing in what they do!
My point is, the entire country needs a complete paradigm shift.
Johnny doesn't want to work unless his benefits are garanteed for life.
Janey doesn't want to work if she can't time off for her dance competition.
Etc., etc., etc.
After 61 employees, I now have a more complete understanding of a portion of America's work force.
We have truly become the Land of Entitlement.
Now, I am not saying that everyone is like this, but there are enough of us that are like this to sway the ballance.
Corporations are taxed so heavily here in the states. They have to adhere to certain EPA laws, and upgrade equipment as needed. They have to pay certain wages and benefits.
Those same American corporations can build things off shore for a fraction of the price. There is no EPA in China or Korea or Indonesia. They pay their work force a mere pittance compared to what they pay American workers.
Yet they still charge us the same!!!!!!!! Rocktron didn't drop their prices dramatically to reflect the fact that their entire line of products costs them 30-50% less to make!
This is my point! Greed is greed. Complacency is complacency. ******** is ********!
I lived in LA in 1999. My girlfriend worked in Hollywood. Most of her friends were out of work, but she was really good at what she did so she was always busy. Making $50 an hour I might add.
Many of her friends who were unemployed complained a lot, but really didn't look for work. Many of them complained a lot to her that she made twice what they made and yet the company kept her instead of them. None of them realized that she worked 4 times as hard as any of them and that is why she was still employed.
Now, a lot of other factors went into this situation. The biggest being that California had just increased the taxes on movie and television companies dramatically in an effort to make more money off of them.
Of course there are many opinions on this, such as, if they can make 50 billion, then they should be able to afford higher taxes. This was the state government's stance on this, although nobody stopped to think that these films and shows might have a budget that they had to adhere strictly to and that the money simply wasn't there until the film was released and tons of people bought it or went to see it.
But.....the taxes were so high that it actually made more sense for some films to shoot entirely on location in foreign countries because it cost less to simply move the entire operation to Switzerland for 3 months and then on to Monte Carlo, and then onto the next location.
This is also why so many movies are shot in Texas, Canada, New Mexico, etc. Because the taxes and duties are more manageable in these areas.
Meanwhile, California wonders what happened, and the price of a movie ticket has gone up this whole time!
This is as bad as the whole, "If I travel back in time and bang my great-great-grandmother......."
All I'm saying is that there are a few companies, Mesa, PRS, Voodoo Lab, that can make a decent profit and a stellar product right here in America.
When I talked to John at Voodoo Lab, he laughed at me. I simply asked him, "How is it that your products can be priced lower than the direct competition's, how can they be made so well, and how can they be made with pride in America?"
His answer was that they keep their overhead low, they keep their company small, they keep their quality control tight, and they love what they are doing!
Many of her friends who were unemployed complained a lot, but really didn't look for work. Many of them complained a lot to her that she made twice what they made and yet the company kept her instead of them. None of them realized that she worked 4 times as hard as any of them and that is why she was still employed.
Now, a lot of other factors went into this situation. The biggest being that California had just increased the taxes on movie and television companies dramatically in an effort to make more money off of them.
Of course there are many opinions on this, such as, if they can make 50 billion, then they should be able to afford higher taxes. This was the state government's stance on this, although nobody stopped to think that these films and shows might have a budget that they had to adhere strictly to and that the money simply wasn't there until the film was released and tons of people bought it or went to see it.
But.....the taxes were so high that it actually made more sense for some films to shoot entirely on location in foreign countries because it cost less to simply move the entire operation to Switzerland for 3 months and then on to Monte Carlo, and then onto the next location.
This is also why so many movies are shot in Texas, Canada, New Mexico, etc. Because the taxes and duties are more manageable in these areas.
Meanwhile, California wonders what happened, and the price of a movie ticket has gone up this whole time!
This is as bad as the whole, "If I travel back in time and bang my great-great-grandmother......."
All I'm saying is that there are a few companies, Mesa, PRS, Voodoo Lab, that can make a decent profit and a stellar product right here in America.
When I talked to John at Voodoo Lab, he laughed at me. I simply asked him, "How is it that your products can be priced lower than the direct competition's, how can they be made so well, and how can they be made with pride in America?"
His answer was that they keep their overhead low, they keep their company small, they keep their quality control tight, and they love what they are doing!
EGGGRUCKINGZACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!
If we don't make anything in this country, then we buy everything from other countries, only to turn around and borrow the money from those countries because we don't make any money in our country!!!!!!!!!
All anyone needs to ask is why the **** do we buy our drywall from China??????? That **** is heavy! It surely can't be made better than American drywall. It surely can't be good to use an Arab shipping company to bring it here???? And...it surely can't be good that it emits Hydrogen Sulfide, which is the gas that will kill you if you are not careful when you work in a refinery or oil field! I used to have to wear a badge on my shirt. If it turned black, then so did my lungs!
MF
Well-known member
Monsta-Tone said:
It's more than just believing in what they do. A key part of why Toyota is successful (note: they are struggling pretty bad right now too) is that their vehicles cost thousands of dollars less to manufacture right here in North America than their american counterparts do. This is largely due to the legacy costs associated with the UAW. I'm not taking a *** at unions in general here but these are huge expenditures and so GM/Ford/Chrysler had to cut costs somewhere to compete, and thus you get the disparity in quality between Japanese and domestic vehicles. Toyota works hard to keep the UAW (and the CAW up here in Canada) out of it's plants for this reason. I'm not anti-UAW/CAW because they've done a lot of good things that union and non-union workers alike benefit from today, but there were some seriously bad deals that went down over the years to keep them happy that have played a big part in the current auto crisis.
Anyways i'm all for buying local/homegrown/domestic/american/canadian/whatever and i do it as often as i can, but i'm just as guilty of often buying cheap foreign made crap too. The fact is we live in a culture of "stuff". The average person has way more stuff than they did 20 or 30 years ago. Just think of how many consumer electronics have come and gone through your home in the last decade. We can all go to walmart and buy a toaster for $10 and it will be broken in a year or two, but nobody thinks of that or the cost associated with constantly buying that $10 toaster over and over again. Our parents probably still have the same toaster they bought in 1974 and it probably still works just as good. People today just want the most product for the least amount of money with little regard for quality. We've become accustomed to having all this stuff and the only way to get it is by buying products made overseas. I've been slowly trying to change my own habits and i rarely buy things now but when i do i try to buy something i'm confident will last me for years.
EleventhHour2139 said:
I understand this completely. My point was one from a perspective of survival. I honestly can't worry about anybody else when I'm trying to eat. Like I said, it's selfish, but I look after myself first. You may feel I owe it to my fellow citizens, which is fine, but the fact of the matter is that most people are going to take care of themselves first.
My father (who is quite successful and buys American, mind you) tells me that "if you can't even take care of yourself, then you really shouldn't be worrying about anybody else."
And Monsta, your points are all very valid. I'm not disagreeing. If I had unlimited funds I would buy American whenever I could. For now, I'll stick to Ramen :mrgreen: .
Exactly my point! I always try to shop around and get something that will last, just as you said.
I would rather spend more and buy it fewer times.
This being said, over the past 7 years, we have bought quite a few really expensive appliances, toaster, microwave, dishwasher, fridge. All but the fridge and the dishwasher were American names, but made in China. The dishwasher is a Bosch (Germany) and the fridge an LG (Korea).
All of them are broken now. We are out over $2,500.
Nobody makes anything work a **** anymore!
As for the UAW, I whole-heartedly agree. That's why I think we are truly the Land of the Entitled. I'm a member of the IBEW, they pay well when there is work. But, I don't buy into any of the crap that is associated with them. I joined simply because of the wages and benefits.
But...All I ever hear on a union job is, "Slow down Andy. You're making us look bad."
If you're gonna collect the pay and benefits, you better be able to do the work in a timely manner and not be slacking off all day and making me do the work!
:lol: Most of our Ramen that we buy is made in America! :lol:
I eat the spicy ones like they are going out of style! But I hate the regular flavors.
I do not, in anyway, have unlimitted funds. Wish I did.
But, I do understand that we as the consumer have the power to tell the corporate greed that we don't want crap anymore.
I will save for a long time to buy the item that I want rather than buy 10 of something that I don't. Or, to buy 10 of something that I know I will have to replace in a relatively short period of time.
I personally can't afford to take care of myself right now. This recession is killing my businesses. But, I still buy American, Canadian, or European whenever possible. Asia is last on my list. If I can't find it from these other areas or if nobody else makes it, I will bite the bullet.
This has nothing to do with loving or hating America. I personally can't stand the entire system and all of the people making it the way it is. But, I'm part of it and it can't be changed from the outside! I see it as doing my part to make it a better country for my kids who are too young to even understand.
If I were in college, I would feel exactly as you do. I think, as I get nearer and nearer to 40 (next year actually), I am starting to understand that I can no longer say '**** the System.' So, this is my way of doing my part to fix it. I don't believe in Utopian anything, but I do think that if enough of us consumers start buying things made in America that eventually Wal-Mart, Guitar Center, Whirlpool, etc. will have to pay attention to this.
We wouldn't be in a recession right now if we still had a strong manufacturing basis. I'm not a farmer, I make things, and I make things work or better than they were.
Sorry dude! Nothing personal. I'm just fed up with the way things are and want to see it change before it all falls into even more pieces. Please don't think I'm dogging you!
I eat the spicy ones like they are going out of style! But I hate the regular flavors.
I do not, in anyway, have unlimitted funds. Wish I did.
But, I do understand that we as the consumer have the power to tell the corporate greed that we don't want crap anymore.
I will save for a long time to buy the item that I want rather than buy 10 of something that I don't. Or, to buy 10 of something that I know I will have to replace in a relatively short period of time.
I personally can't afford to take care of myself right now. This recession is killing my businesses. But, I still buy American, Canadian, or European whenever possible. Asia is last on my list. If I can't find it from these other areas or if nobody else makes it, I will bite the bullet.
This has nothing to do with loving or hating America. I personally can't stand the entire system and all of the people making it the way it is. But, I'm part of it and it can't be changed from the outside! I see it as doing my part to make it a better country for my kids who are too young to even understand.
If I were in college, I would feel exactly as you do. I think, as I get nearer and nearer to 40 (next year actually), I am starting to understand that I can no longer say '**** the System.' So, this is my way of doing my part to fix it. I don't believe in Utopian anything, but I do think that if enough of us consumers start buying things made in America that eventually Wal-Mart, Guitar Center, Whirlpool, etc. will have to pay attention to this.
We wouldn't be in a recession right now if we still had a strong manufacturing basis. I'm not a farmer, I make things, and I make things work or better than they were.
Sorry dude! Nothing personal. I'm just fed up with the way things are and want to see it change before it all falls into even more pieces. Please don't think I'm dogging you!
b0nkersx said:
:lol: :lol: :lol: I actually get that a lot. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I worked at a mine here in New Mexico for a while. There were electricians who had been there for 40 years and still couldn't fix the stuff that had also been there for 40 years!
We used to work on a Work Order basis.
The drills that make the holes for the explosives run on 4,160 volts.
We had to do a Preventative Maintenance (PM) every month on each of them.
The Planners would spit out a work order for 2 guys/8 hours to do this. I could easily do the entire PM in an hour by myself and not even hurry! The other guys were eating and hanging out with the drill operators while I did the work.
The other guys were bringing books to the PM! BOOKS!
Then, at the end of the day, they were tired! How does that work?
I just wanted to get in, do the job, and get out so I could go home and bang my girlfriend.
Got to have priorities you know! That place is no longer open! They laid off all 900 workers and said **** it! Everybody there had a full supply of tools, gloves, tape, you name it, at their houses. All courtesy of Phelps Dodge. They didn't understand that by stealing from the company, they not only kept their wages low because the company could not afford to give out raises, but they were also the lowest producing branch of the company. I'm not saying that we should all buy into the BS that companies hand out either. I'll spit on the hand that feeds me, but I won't stab it in the ass when it's not looking! :lol:
derekjason
Well-known member
ive played a good new gibson, if you play about 75 of them, youre bound to find ONE.
Old BF Shred
Well-known member
The really sad part is that it is likely to get much worse before it gets better (if at all)!
Corporations got too greedy; unions got too greedy. Some (but not all) American workers got too lazy. All it resulted in was the firing of our own customers.
Too few people now have the disposable income to buy all American made goods (of the few that are left).
It's a downward spiral that frankly scares the hell out of me.
Good luck to us all!!!!
Corporations got too greedy; unions got too greedy. Some (but not all) American workers got too lazy. All it resulted in was the firing of our own customers.
Too few people now have the disposable income to buy all American made goods (of the few that are left).
It's a downward spiral that frankly scares the hell out of me.
Good luck to us all!!!!
derekjason said:
:lol: That's why I bit the bullet and got a PRS! :lol:
I can't help but feel the same way unfortunately!
ryjan
Well-known member
The all-mighty dollar, hard at work. Welcome to corporate America my friends. I'm pissed off enough this year that I decided to only do my holiday shopping at locally owned mom and pop kind of places. Guess what? I can't hardly find any of those anymore. Wal-Mart has ran them all off. While we are ranting, does anyone give a crap who Tiger is screwing? Isn't there anything more newsworthy in the world right now?
