Looking for the best overall tube?

[jrkooshman]

TW,
thanks for the help in finding these RCAs. I lucked out and found someone selling a single on TGP relatively cheap. I think I am going to try it in V1 of the Lss and put a RFT in V2 for kicks

 

[Timbre Wolf]

TW,
thanks for the help in finding these RCAs. I lucked out and found someone selling a single on TGP relatively cheap. I think I am going to try it in V1 of the Lss and put a RFT in V2 for kicks

Let us know what your impressions are, as you make the changes. Try one change at a time - just to be clear what does what for you.

- Thom

 

[stokes]

Just like to add to something T.Wolf said earlier.When buying used old stock tubes,remember that most older audio equipment didnt push the preamp tubes into hyper-drive the way modern high gain amps do,so you can get a 40 year old 12AX7 that was used in a radio and it will likely perform like a NOS,at dirt cheap prices.I have a couple of Amperex Bugle Boys in one of my Ampeg Gemini's that have been in the amp since it was new,back in the 60's and they still perform and test 100%.They even test much better than a batch of brand new EH 12AX7's.This amp saw a lot of use thru the 70's and 80's,including a bout 8 years of use as a bass amp.
With all the detail Timber Wolf gives in his descriptions and explanations of tubes,the furthest thing from my mind is that he is killing anybodies hopes,he is doing the best job of narrowing things down so you dont have to waste your time and money buying all the tubes he has already taken the time to dissect.

 

[212Mavguy]

Stokes, once again you said something better in fewer words than I ever could in your most previous post...

AMEN!

123TheFirst,

and anybody else that is curious about cost of vintage old stock used tubes... have HOPE, keep the faith, and BE WATCHFUL for opportunity! I recently won an auction of 12ax7 tubes, they sounded so good that I kept my eyes open and the seller had another lot up so I got these too, identical in brand and type, and they are more rare than the blackplate 12ax7a pictured earlier in this thread, they are similar in construction except for the gray plates, also have the third partial mica an top, their sound is very close to the black plate version except greater top end detail. The last lot sounded like brand new tubes, I interpret the date code as being manufactured in the 37th week of 1962, NEARLY 48 YEARS OLD... My so called par price is 60 bucks for three new production tubes plus cost of gas driving to the damn store to buy them, and as it is plain to see , these were far less, and my ears like their sound much better. The tone is amazing! 220211318195 is the auction number to search on ebay...

Peace, Rhythm, and Tone!

 

[212Mavguy]

er, corrections, Stokes most recent post and nearly 46 years old...

 

[stokes]

Thanks,Mav.Yeah,ya gotta keep your eyes open.I just scored 5 NOS Phillips 5751's on ebay,while reading this thread last night, for 75 bucks plus 5 for shipping,thats $16 each.The 5751 is my all time favorite (for now at least).I have at least one in every amp I own,except for one of my 5E3 clones that has a 12AY7.I have a number of different brands,but no Phillips,that I know of.They look good in the pictures,but I'll have to wait till they get here,but I'm betting the Wolf can tell me something about the Phillips.http://cgi.ebay.com/JAN-5751-VACUUM-TUBES-5-NEW-OLD-STOCK_W0QQitemZ130206457522QQihZ003QQcategoryZ67816QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Heres a link if you want to take a look,Mav.

 

[Timbre Wolf]

JAN Philips ECG 5751? Sorry, Stokes, I went straight from the 2-mica gray-plate GE 5751 to earlier-production 3-mica black-plate 5751 (RCA, GE, Sylvania), and was so much more satisfied that I never went back to a short gray-plate 5751. Perhaps 212Mavguy has something to say about the ECG 5751 you got?

- T

 

[212Mavguy]

ECG short gray plate 2 mica 5751 is relabeled Sylvania. Don't have one of those, but do have one Sylvania short grayplate 2 mica 5751, basically the same tube. Fat mids! in mine, but one tube is not much of a sample size... Less bottom than the typical Syl long gray 12ax7.

Just finished auditioning two 5751's and a 12ax7 from ebay seller in Spain, of all places. 27.50 for all three including 17 bucks shipping, so I kinda stole 'em. One 5751 was a French Belvu (think French Mazda) short gray plate triple mica, other 5751 was GE short black plate triple mica, and 12ax7 was Raytheon JRP 12ax7 long gray plate, rectangular getter. The Ray had the most top end detail, 2+ on my personal arbitrary scale pf 5 for microphonics tapping bottle gently with fingernail while amp is running, , 1 being none and 5 being unusable.

Wolf, you gotta try some long grayplate Ray organ tubes for your airy tone thang, have one with your name on it. 5751 Belvu was strongest, least used, sounded like a new tube, very balanced top to bottom. The GE 5751 shortplate triple mica was very similar in tone to a 5751 Raytheon short black plate triple mica windmill getter unit, warm and sweet. I was looking for that GE, this is my first one and it had no microphonics at all and was gorgeous. Those are going for stupid money along with the Ray w/mill getter and Syl short blackplate triple mica goldpin 5751 right now. There is a reason they are so expensive on the used market, they sound that good!

 

[Timbre Wolf]

ECG short gray plate 2 mica 5751 is relabeled Sylvania.

I know the Philips ECG were made by Sylvania facilities, but they were later production. I have not compared, but I don't expect them to be the same as the earlier "Sylvania"-label tubes. I could be wrong, though.

Wolf, you gotta try some long grayplate Ray organ tubes for your airy tone thang, have one with your name on it.

Oooh! Sounds interesting! My black-plate predilection kept me from trying those out.

The GE 5751 shortplate triple mica was very similar in tone to a 5751 Raytheon short black plate triple mica windmill getter unit, warm and sweet. I was looking for that GE, this is my first one and it had no microphonics at all and was gorgeous. Those are going for stupid money along with the Ray w/mill getter and Syl short blackplate triple mica goldpin 5751 right now. There is a reason they are so expensive on the used market, they sound that good!

I'm fond of the GE 3-mica black-plate 5751 for a bright, airy, open, clear 5751. Early Sylvania are about the same, tonally, but I've found them to be quite noise-prone. I prefer the 3-mica black-plate RCA if I need to take the treble edge down a couple of notches.

Hey Mav - I took my own advice on the E180CC and subbed it in my 5E7 phase inverter, replacing a black-plate Ken-Rad 12AT7. It works very nicely there, for a cleaner sound. Though the analogy is not quite accurate, the E180CC (or 7062) is to the 12AT7 somewhat like the 5751 is to the 12AX7 (about 70% gain factor). For what its worth - it may be just the ticket to clean up an overly-gained circuit.

Peace all!

- Thom

 

[stokes]

I'll let you guys know what I find when the tubes get here,but I can tell you,my reviews arent going to be as detailed as you guys,I'm not as analitical.I may not even get around to doing anything with them for a while,what I'll end up doing is compare it to a tube that is already in one of my amps,if its better,it stays and the old one becomes a spare for that particular amp.If it aint as good,it goes into my "aint too good pile".If it has any problems it gets junked.If you guys are interested,check out the link and you'll see this guy has 5 more of the same going off in 3 days.

 

[Timbre Wolf]

what I'll end up doing is compare it to a tube that is already in one of my amps,if its better,it stays and the old one becomes a spare for that particular amp.If it aint as good,it goes into my "aint too good pile".

This A-B testing is basically what I've done over the years. Just multiply the process by 1000, write a few detailed notes, and you end up with a library of tonal choices, and a graduate degree's worth of experience. I consider the cost of tubes to be cheap, considering the educational value. 8)

- T

 

[stokes]

Writing notes would help me a lot,if I was so inclined.I have a huge lot of tubes I've sorted and saved over the years,but to pull one out and tell someone it has this or that qualities,would require me to put it in an amp and listen again.I do know all the ones I have in this tube caddy are good,some I find marginal I hold on to,in case someone I know wants it or for use in circuits that are not critical to tone.When I get past a couple of tubes,my hearing gets fatigued and I start to lose focus.Its especialy noticeable when the tubes are as close as they are,sonically.Once I settle on a tube,I have no difficulty in then breaking it down as to how the highs,mids or lows sound,but I guess I am just lazy,I look for how smoothly it goes from clean to break-up or how solid it sounds at clean levels and thats good enough for me. I definately see the benefit in taking the time and effort to be as discerning as you guys do,but like I said,I am just too lazy.

 

[212Mavguy]

I'm lazy too. So I just tear a small sliver of paper from a bigger sheet and write a few things down and stick it in the tube box with the tube. If the tube is not in a box then I wrap the same size piece of paper around the tube with a rubber band. Takes all of one minute to do. For power tubes I write how closely they are matched if they are pairs besides their sonic characteristics.

 

[jrkooshman]

some n00b questions now that I have started using more valuable tubes-

1- Do you practice at home with the same amps with the NOS tubes, or save them for band practice and gigs? I have a small solid state that I may use to preserve the life of them.

Crap- forgot the other question- I'll post that when I remember!

 

[stokes]

I'm lazy too. So I just tear a small sliver of paper from a bigger sheet and write a few things down and stick it in the tube box with the tube. If the tube is not in a box then I wrap the same size piece of paper around the tube with a rubber band. Takes all of one minute to do. For power tubes I write how closely they are matched if they are pairs besides their sonic characteristics.

Power tubes get more scrutiny,of course.I have a tube current matcher and a transcoductance tester,and they get sorted and matched accordingly.Preamp tubes get tested in the tester and checked for sound and noise in one of my amps and then go into one of three places- the "primo" caddy,the "okay" box or the trash.

 

[212Mavguy]

Hi JR,

It depends on the amp. I have four nice tube amps that are all different. For practicing at home I like to use the amp that has the least number of tubes. My heavily modded silverface Frank-enchamp has a preamp tube, a rectifier tube, and a power tube. Of the three, the power tube is the one that is the fastest to wear out, but I habitually use different power tubes in it for fun, it takes everything from 6f6 to 6550, including el34 and kt66... However, I still get lots of life out of a single power tube. Vintage power tubes tend to last longer than new production ones. I tend to think that if one would want personal practice tubes vs. band rehearsal/gig tubes I would switch out the power tubes. Nothing wrong with using a solid state amp for practice, either.

I practice through my other amps occasionally for variety and fun.

 

[jrkooshman]

thanks Mav! Yeah, I only have 1 tube amp- the LSS. I guess I can just switch it to 5w if I really need to worry about it. The solid state has a headphone jack, which won't wake the babies!

 

[jrkooshman]

ok double post. I just popped in 1 my first Raytheon Blackplate- a "Masco". I had replaced an Amperex Bugle Boy (to be id later). WOW- its so clean! I had resigned that my PRS SC was muddy. But this is like glass. Cleanest I have ever heard my amp. I should record some A/B's to show the difference. I may now invest in some more of these, as i am just so amazed at the clarity. The lows are still low- but tight now. I have an RFT on the way for V2, and will do an A/B later this week, and record the old tube setup now

 

[212Mavguy]

Hey JR,

Nice work! You might take a look at your amp manual for your LSS, perhaps there is a first position tube for the dirty channel and a first position tube for the clean channel like in my Maverick. Then you can voice each channel independently of the other. Also, you might like what happens after you seek a tightly balanced vintage 12ax7 for the phase inverter. I have heard folks say that the PI position has little effect on tone, well, that may depend on the amp. In my experience with a simple circuit design found in my 18 watt "Toadsucker" amp it made a large difference to switch out from the stock balanced JJ to a balanced Sylvania short blackplate. Timbre Wolf turned me on to that tube, and so I found a few more on ebay. You might really like an old Tesla e83cc as a second position tube for the dirty channel as well.

 

[jrkooshman]

Mav- there is the rub. The LSS uses V1 for Clean and for Ch2 drive stage, and then V2 for 2nd and 3rd Gain stage. Right now I am using Tung-sol Reissue as the PI. I do have some NOS I could put in there, including a Raytheon short grey plate. I have been looking for those Tesla's (I am guessing you mean non-JJ) but I will put those on the wishlist with the Mullard long plates. There is a second 1958 Amp Bugle Boy in V2 right now(1958 Harleen), and the amp sounds pretty damn good. I can get Channel 2 to even sound fuzz pedalish with drive @1:30 and Gain @3:00. I will try to record some clips this weekend when the baby is not here