Letting someone else do the 2C+ upgrade

[PRS-Ian]

I’ve just received an email from a friend in Melbourne, Australia about upgrading his Mk2C.

At the time when he was living in London, we both had MK2C’s, I went to the expense of sending mine back to Mike B at Mesa to have the ‘+’ upgrade along with Simu-Class mod, but he always resisted the temptation.

Having been in Australia for a year he is now considering having the mod done and considering sending it back. However, he's just been told by Mesa’s agent in Australia that someone in another state, Queeensland, can do the mod.

Ok, providing that this is true and can be done correctly, what would your opinion be towards a MK2C+ that hadn’t been mod’ed by Mike B? Would it be worth less for that fact?

Ian

 

[Boogiebabies]

That's a scary situation if you do not know the credibility of the amp tech.
It's not easy either way, but if it has the RP10 or SP10 preamp boards this guy better **** well know what he is doing. My philosophy is, when in doubt, Mike B. it out.

 

[sundaypunch]

I would be surprised if there are many people out there that knew exactly what needed to be changed to get it to C+ spec's. It's not a well documented change like blackfacing a silverface Fender.

Also, how will your friend know if the change was done correctly?

 

[Boogiebabies]

I would be surprised if there are many people out there that knew exactly what needed to be changed to get it to C+ spec's. It's not a well documented change like blackfacing a silverface Fender.

Also, how will your friend know if the change was done correctly?

Even if it had the RP11A it could not be done by schematic or pictures.
You would have to blueprint a real IIC+ component by component. There's buried treasure in those amps.

If you have seen the RP11 in a IIC and a IIC+, it is very evident that there is a fair amount of swapping necessary for it to take shape. That's just the components you can see. :wink:

 

[PRS-Ian]

Guys, thanks for your responses.
Ian

 

[jvk]

I do agree that Mike B is the man, but the expense in sending the amp to him is an issue to alot of people. People like myself have studied the IIC+ and seen the various incarnations of the IIC circuit (SP11A, RP10A, RP11A) and am pretty confident in doing the mods (in the UK) and people have trusted in me to get this done.

 

[PRS-Ian]

OK so it is possible outside of Mike B workshop.
Apparently its the Australian agent himeslf that has offered to do the mod.
Which leads me back to one of my earlier questions, would you consider the amp to worth less if Mike hadn't done the mod?
Ian

 

[jvk]

Beside Mike B and myself, I've never heard of anyone doing a C+ mod successfully, let alone as a pro job. The IIC+ schematics are flawed in several places, but it's not impossible to do the mod, but not without having studied IIC+ in real life, or being under the supervision of Mike B.

I can't vouch for the Australian agent, but I can say that a 100% accurate C+ ugrade with the correct brand/type of parts is like any other IIC+ and I wouldn't rate/value it any less. Mike B is only human and in a rush even he can perform messy upgrades...

Now, you have to wonder if this agent is working independently or if he's under the auspices of Bendinelli. I can't imagine that he's performed too many C+ mods, after all, how many IIC end up down there?

 

[Boogiebabies]

Beside Mike B and myself, I've never heard of anyone doing a C+ mod successfully, let alone as a pro job. The IIC+ schematics are flawed in several places, but it's not impossible to do the mod, but not without having studied IIC+ in real life, or being under the supervision of Mike B.

I can't vouch for the Australian agent, but I can say that a 100% accurate C+ ugrade with the correct brand/type of parts is like any other IIC+ and I wouldn't rate/value it any less. Mike B is only human and in a rush even he can perform messy upgrades...

Now, you have to wonder if this agent is working independently or if he's under the auspices of Bendinelli. I can't imagine that he's performed too many C+ mods, after all, how many IIC end up down there?

Understood, but you did the work to research and reverse engineered the amps. If your in the UK or EU, your in good hands with Johhny, but I highly doubt Mike would share anything regarding a full IIC upgrade, yet alone to someone in Australia. If the amp is up to C+ spec, what difference does it make as to who performed it. I'm sure that certain people would have the ability to choose what doctor they want for a nose job, so why not a IIC+ upgrade. Nothing against Mike B. or taking food out of his mouth, but if your not in the US it's got to be a hard choice.

 

[sundaypunch]

...Which leads me back to one of my earlier questions, would you consider the amp to worth less if Mike hadn't done the mod?
Ian

I would. I personally wouldn't buy a conversion that wasn't done by Mike B. It would have to be a super low price to get me to take a chance. If I had a trusted source that I knew could do the job it would be different.

If I'm selling a conversion and tell everyone I had it done by someone other than Mike B. I would think that it would be hard to get a good price.

 

[Boogiebabies]

...Which leads me back to one of my earlier questions, would you consider the amp to worth less if Mike hadn't done the mod?
Ian

I would. I personally wouldn't buy a conversion that wasn't done by Mike B. It would have to be a super low price to get me to take a chance. If I had a trusted source that I knew could do the job it would be different.

If I'm selling a conversion and tell everyone I had it done by someone other than Mike B. I would think that it would be hard to get a good price.

The sad thing is I have told more than a few people who bought amps as a + for markey value only to have to tell them the "+" was forged. They almost all say MB. If the upgrade was done with era correct components and cleanly, to most it would be impossible to distinguish the upgrade. You can even tell Mike B's later upgrades with the yellow Kemet tantalums. I keep black Mallory 15uf caps, Hermetically sealed .47 and .22 caps, CTS pull pots and as many era correct parts on hand in case I need and overhaul or repair.

 

[rizboog]

DONT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Shep]

i don't know anyone who can perform the mod over here..

What is scary is i have people asking me to have a look at there old boogie because they have heard i know a little about them.. nothing like the C+ mod but.. i just do things like cap changes, joint problems and cleaning up...i have worked on a few mk's , IIc,III,IV,dual Recto and 50/50 power amp..all seem to be working Great now..

I know a Few AMAZING techs and none of them know the mod,but they don't really do mesa.. one guy who is a good friend of my dad's could work it out and most likely do it..he is one of the world best Solid State audio pre/power amp designer's and think's all tube amp's as being "easy".. What can you say he Was from Norway..

 

[tony777]

What can you say he Was from Norway..

Well, it's definitely not me;-)

 

[stevehollx]

You would have to blueprint a real IIC+ component by component.

http://sloclone.yesterdaysrevolt.com/viewtopic.php?t=589
http://sloclone.yesterdaysrevolt.com/viewtopic.php?p=11188#11188

 

[jvk]

You would have to blueprint a real IIC+ component by component.

http://sloclone.yesterdaysrevolt.com/viewtopic.php?t=589
http://sloclone.yesterdaysrevolt.com/viewtopic.php?p=11188#11188

Using a MarkIV schematic and bolting on some IIC+ components doesn't make a IIC+ :lol:

 

[Dan__O]

Using a MarkIV schematic and bolting on some IIC+ components doesn't make a IIC+ :lol:

who's using a mk4 schematic?

 

[Stonge]

If you want the C+ sound so bad either fork up the cash for one or get a MKIII(greenstripe). That to me is the closest sound to the C+ and will definately give you that "Justice/Garage Days" sound. Especially for at least half the price. You could prbably sell the 2C and get the III(green) with hardly having to break into your bank account. Oh yeah..I would NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! get that mod done by anyone else besides Mike B. Does he even do that mod anymore for the 2C???

 

[diafebus]

If you want the C+ sound so bad either fork up the cash for one or get a MKIII(greenstripe). That to me is the closest sound to the C+ and will definately give you that "Justice/Garage Days" sound. Especially for at least half the price. You could prbably sell the 2C and get the III(green) with hardly having to break into your bank account. Oh yeah..I would NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! get that mod done by anyone else besides Mike B. Does he even do that mod anymore for the 2C???

no, no, no
he and another guy had been working too hard to get out this schematic :wink: and it's less far to be completed :twisted: