JJ Preamp Tubes (12AX7) (ECC83S) users.. (help)?

[Platypus]

Does anyone have experience with these tubes in a Dual Rectifier?

I seem to read a lot of conflicting opinions on these tubes and was hoping for a neutral approach with someone who actually uses them with this amplifier.

Most places I read either say that they are 'very very dark, sound like putting a blanket of your amp,' etc, or that they are the best tubes on the market for preamp and have a very smooth and colorful attack, no mush, etc.

So who is telling the truth here?

I emailed Bob from Eurotubes about this subject and he gave me some good info and had a lot to say about the 'jj haters' who post on other forums talking about how they're terrible, dark, etc. He pointed me to some reviews of people with dual recs who liked them but before I make a decision on this I'd really love to hear from some actual Mesa Owners!


Side question, what are the metal covers on the DR preamp section with the spring in them and how easy are they to remove/put back on?

 

[Brewski]

Hey Platypus, The metal covers are a retainer and also shield the pre-amp tubes. They come off by turning them about a quarter turn or so counter clockwise and should drop out. Reverse the process to put them back in.

I use JJ's and like them, although, I haven't heard them in a dual rec., so I can't offer an opinion of them for your application.

 

[Platypus]

Hey Platypus, The metal covers are a retainer and also shield the pre-amp tubes. They come off by turning them about a quarter turn or so counter clockwise and should drop out. Reverse the process to put them back in.

I use JJ's and like them, although, I haven't heard them in a dual rec., so I can't offer an opinion of them for your application.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[fatboy135]

I´m looking for the differences on sound between the ecc803 and the ecc83s
Anybody knows???

 

[Guitarzan]

I have an ECC 803 in V1 of my old 2 ch. The tone is very thick in the low mids, round, but not brittle. In comparason to the GT 12ax7M, they have just a hair less gain but more versatile. The ECC 83's are voiced a bit thinner and are focused more on the highs. Thats they best way to describe it...Just pick one up and swap your V1's out, You'll notice immediately.

 

[fatboy135]

at last I get the two tubes and becomes to test for the difference.
Let´s go:
Platypus, in my point of view the jj-ecc83s are the best tubes for less than 7$ they really rocks your amp and they aren´t so dark as people say.
Ok then the main difference for the 803 and the 83 is that 803 is more for hi-fi equipment and not for guitar amps
on the other hand as I said the jj-ecc83s costs 7$ and they are really marvelous

 

[screamingdaisy]

I was experimenting with some JJs in a MkIII the other day.

In one way, they sound very smooth with no harsh top end.

In another way, they sounds like you threw a blanket over your tone....it's as if your top end harmonics were sucked right out of the amp.

I use JJs in my Laney as it gives it a very dark, smooth, natural sorta sound.....not nearly as grainy as some other tubes I've tried.

On the other hand, I really didn't like them in my MkIII. Prefered EHX as they had a brighter, more harmonically complex top end and a more aggressive bite to the gain.

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

I use both in my Triple, and honestly I cant tell you which one I like better. The 803 has fuller lows and low mids, while the 83S is more 'linear'-sounding. I swap them back and forth constantly (V1 position), and while the 803 seems to give a sweeter soloing tone, the 83S fits better in a band mix. Next time we go in the studio I'll give the 803 a shot for my leads, but its 83S for rhythm and live use by a long shot.

FWIW the 803 is a long-plate type tube, and is prone to being microphonic. I dont think I would use it in the gain stages (V2-3), and it can be a bit squirrely even in V1 if your head sits on top of your cab and you play loud. It does sound good though....dammit now I gotta go swap 'em again. You guys are killing me!

Jon

 

[fatboy135]

use JJs in my Laney as it gives it a very dark, smooth, natural sorta sound.....not nearly as grainy as some other tubes I've tried.

On the other hand, I really didn't like them in my MkIII. Prefered EHX as they had a brighter, more harmonically complex top end and a more aggressive bite to the gain.

I use on my triaxis 2xeh12ax7 gold and 3xjj ecc83s.
Now I will order a great quantitie of jj ecc83s because I think they are the best value on quality price ( is amanzing that these tubes only costs 7$ ) and they are perfectly for tube spare on so many amps.

 

[slayer]

I use all JJ`s in my Peavey Ultra 60. 2 JJ 6L6 high gains and 3 ECC83 high gains and 1 balanced ECC83 for the phase inverter. I alos agree that these tubes are very tight and excell in the low end department and you do give up a bit of harmonicly rich highs, but for serious rythym palm crunching, these tubes are it!! Bob took care of me for sure Jack.

 

[fatboy135]

I just ordered 5 ecc83s for spare tubes

 

[Platypus]

I wonder why there is such a spread spectrum of opinions with these tubes.


Some people love them and some hate them.. no middle ground :?

Makes me nervous to pull the trigger.

 

[fatboy135]

because they are like Prince, the prince of controversity
Trust in me, I bought over 7 models of diferent tubes and best was the EH, the Svetlana and JJ.
Take a couple of spare tubes of jj to test it, you will not waist much money and you can decided for yourself about this great tubes

 

[fatboy135]

check this link:
http://www.tube-town.de/info/info.html
the article:tt-report preamps

 

[Platypus]

check this link:
http://www.tube-town.de/info/info.html
the article:tt-report preamps

Thanks for the reading material, I'll check it out.

I guess what scares me is the 'blanket on your tone' comment I read here, the gear page, and harmony central.. and then the opposite comments about how it's the best tube, how it sounds amazing, etc.

I realize tone is subjective but usually I can find a middle ground that is more realistic.. this tube seems to be the hot button item for controversy.

 

[fatboy135]

I don´t ear any blanket or curtain on my sound, I think that the blanket is caused by not using the appropiate match tubes to get together.
For example on my triaxis I do all kind of swaps between several tubes.
I discovered that the jj works so fine on V3,V4,V5, if I put them on V1,V2 they don´t sounds well.
On the other hand I discover that the perfect match for jj on my triaxis were the eh on V1,V2 and the svetlana 12ax7 on V5.
It is like a marriage between tubes some pairs becomes very happy with a great offspring and others divorce on the next month
The jj sounds so great, without any curtain, only you must to find the perfect socket to fit, and the perfect husband for that tubes, if they connect well the marry is done and the tone pumps your amp

 

[Platypus]

I don´t ear any blanket or curtain on my sound, I think that the blanket is caused by not using the appropiate match tubes to get together.
For example on my triaxis I do all kind of swaps between several tubes.
I discovered that the jj works so fine on V3,V4,V5, if I put them on V1,V2 they don´t sounds well.
On the other hand I discover that the perfect match for jj on my triaxis were the eh on V1,V2 and the svetlana 12ax7 on V5.
It is like a marriage between tubes some pairs becomes very happy with a great offspring and others divorce on the next month
The jj sounds so great, without any curtain, only you must to find the perfect socket to fit, and the perfect husband for that tubes, if they connect well the marry is done and the tone pumps your amp

So getting the high gain retube set for V1-V5 is probably not a good idea?
Most things I've read say that GT 12AX7's sound great in V1, V2, V5, a JJ in V3, 9th gen chinese in V4.

Or, JJ in V1, chinese in V2-V4, etc. It seems most like to mix tubes?

People say using too many JJ's makes it too dark and sucks the high end tone out of your amp.

 

[fatboy135]

So getting the high gain retube set for V1-V5 is probably not a good idea?

It is not a good idea, but if you try them and works so fine then leave them.
There is not really any theory or equation about wich tube will works fine on a particular socket.
There is a lot of theory and equations for tube design but for get a good sound with some tubes is only a matter for the ears.
So get a lot of another brands and test it in your mesa, I spend all my saturday evening until I reach my sound.
No theory no equations only feelings.

People say using too many JJ's makes it too dark and sucks the high end tone out of your amp.

I put 3 tubes of jj on my triaxis and there wasn´t any highs loose, so trust in me, that is a matter of you and your ears. People could say a lot of things but your heart will say you the TRUTH

 

[Platypus]

So getting the high gain retube set for V1-V5 is probably not a good idea?

It is not a good idea, but if you try them and works so fine then leave them.
There is not really any theory or equation about wich tube will works fine on a particular socket.
There is a lot of theory and equations for tube design but for get a good sound with some tubes is only a matter for the ears.
So get a lot of another brands and test it in your mesa, I spend all my saturday evening until I reach my sound.
No theory no equations only feelings.

People say using too many JJ's makes it too dark and sucks the high end tone out of your amp.

I put 3 tubes of jj on my triaxis and there wasn´t any highs loose, so trust in me, that is a matter of you and your ears. People could say a lot of things but your heart will say you the TRUTH

This sounds like the most objective way to test, unfortunately I don't really have a large budget for this sort of thing at the moment.

When I get some spare cash I'll def order a bunch of each and just sit around for a day to test.

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

...'blanket on your tone'...

Thats what the Presence knob is for...while its true the JJ's arent as bright sounding as say the EH, they're not as fizzy either, and you can get more 'bright' than you'll ever need with the ch3 presence control (the smoother tone is an improvement for ch1-2 IMO)

*note* the Hi-Gain 83S's are not nearly as dark as the regular ones

FWIW I tried the 803 in V1 again and i think the 83S is more to my liking.