JCM800

[Russ]

I think that the single channels are still more popular because they are traditionally more Marshall? Master Volume amps are not the ideal in the mind of a purist but then again it is more appealing than the abortion that a split channel reverb type head is. Single channel heads have less that can go wrong with them but they also have less going on with them to begin with. To be perfectly honest even a single channel head is still a 2 channel head. If you look at the design of the 2203/2204 it has two inputs. These inputs are selected manually at the insertion of the input but not switchable by any other means. This goes for the 4 holers too that are so coveted. With the Non Master Volume heads 1959/1987 types (not to discredit superbasses, supertremolos, JTMs, whathaveyou, but it is commonly understood that while talking about 4 holers that same holds true most of the time when generalizing these heads) you again choose the channel you want to run. These are even more complicated in a way too because of the bridging that you can run. Hmmmm.... that seems a little assbackwards but it is thought of as simpler? Ok let's move on here... So even in the onset Marshall had a way to cascade gain and channel switch. This might not be as big of a concern as the mode of clipping that was started amongst the Master Volumes with their diode clipping. I sure see a lot of Super Lead players snubbing their noses at diode clipping. I don't see rectifiers in their amps though. Shame on them. So the Master Volume amps and their brethren of the 800 line began to use more diode clipping. This is where things become less organic in nature but noless the prevailing popular tone. The 2203 went through changes that involved losing caps. Well, the amp still mathematically was correct but sounded slightly different. This is what makes many choose the earlier 800s. Though the early 800 had merit it still was not the classy amp that the JMP version was... give me a break. It has just a slight bit more gain than the JMP version did big deal. The JMP version does classic rock better. Woohoo... :roll: Ok, so I am getting a little sarcastic here but I am becoming more and more annoyed by the stigmas everyday. If you want an amp that stayed true look at the 2204. This amp though receiving PCB mounted pots retained its design. It never lost caps and stayed consistent. I think that of the 2203/2204 it is the real winner. Though the 2203 has a better bottom end and more headroom with a few DB's more output, I would rather play the 2204 and push it to power tube saturation sooner. The 2204 is the clear bargain even in horizontal inputs. How does this all relate to the 2205/2210? Don't worry about the stigmas attached. Play what you like to hear. If that means getting a certain amp that makes a certain sound. Do it.... Do it.... Do it.... <---Starsky and Hutch flashbacks of Ben Stiller in that bad wig

Let the masses have their mediocrity. You know what you want. Buy it for cheaper than a 2203/2204 and absolutely crush the guy playing the other amp. I would.... and do.

Nomad100 is right on that a good condition 2205 is around $750 with the 2210 pricing within a couple hundred more. I just was speculating pricing on a relatively collectable specimen in near mint condition in my last post. I just thought I would vent on the note that 2203/2204 amps tend to fetch more because it seems silly to me. In some reasoning simpler is better. In this case, you just get so much more at a more reasonable price.

 

[Finnster]

Russ,

What is you experience with the 2203 ZW? Are these really that much better with the different power tubes and being hand wired? They are awefully expensive on ebay. I guess they are getting to be a bit of a collectors item since they were limited to 600 pieces. Have you messed with one of these?

Thanks Mr. Marshall (aka Russ)

 

[Russ]

There really is nothing special about the ZW. In all actuality it is just the same old US version from back in the day. The US versions came with the 6550's. The biggest differences between the unit and the old amps are the cosmetics.

 

[ntg]

Great post! I have been obsessed with jcm800's since I got my 2210. In all of my research, I came across an article mentioning that Slash mixed the 2203 and Jubilee sounds to get his Use Your Illusion tone. I wasn't sure how accurate that information was and then I ran across this head on eBay a year or so ago where a guy had posted a clip.

Pay particular attention to the last 3 seconds, he hits an open D chord....listen to it about four times, and then check out "Pretty Tied Up" off of Use your Illusion II. That sounds pretty close to me!!

The amp in the clip is an '81 2203 with a Gibson Les Paul. THIS is the tone I love!!!

For some reason the clip is screwed up on my machine (probably since I updated my Quicktime) and is playing in "pastel", but the audio still works...

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/ngreene/jcm800/JCM800.MOV

Note for all of those who are going to rush to eBay to find 2203's, check out the MarkIVB's first - I have definitely found this tone in mine! (and its three channels, instead of one, effects loop, eq, smaller package, etc, etc) For the money, I cannot say enough about the MarkIV!

 

[Elpelotero]

haha that guy in the clip is a member here! forgot his user name tho.

 

[ytse_jam]

Hi guys, for everyone here who remember my problem with a jcm800 of a friend of mine (Russ firstly), I realized I'm stupid! The voltage selector was on 240V instead of 220V, I really don't know how I couldn't notice it before!!! Now the amp rocks, really a wonderful tone!

 

[Russ]

That would do it. The UK models of the 800's had the selectable voltage unlike the US version. The versatility in the UK model sells me every time. I just make sure to always double check everything before I even power up. That has become such a part of my setup that I often overlook that part in the troubleshooting suggestions because to me it is like plugging in my amp, cabinet or guitar. It is just automatic.

 

[Finnster]

Russ,

I picked up a JCM800 2203 reissue head. Which of the Marshall cabs sound best with these? I am torn between the Vintage (V-30's) and the 1960A with the GT-75's. There is a significant cost difference in the two. I suspect the GT-75's will be a bit "harsh" and the 30's will be "warmer" Which do you prefer in your experience? BTW, my head has the 6550 tubes and was rebiased before I bought it.

Thanks

 

[Russ]

It really all depends upon the sound you are looking for. Personally, I have a 1960b with 75's, a 1960ax with greenbacks, and a 1960a with 65's. I pretty much can make any sound I am looking for as far as Marshall goes. I have a Mesa Traditional with V30's coming to give me my V30 fix too. I recently sold off a couple cabs. Those cabs had 50's and V30's. The only reason for having sold the V30 loaded cab was to make room for the Mesa. I have been thinking about trying the EVM12-L loaded Thiele with my Marshalls but I just haven't done it yet. I just can't seem to unplug it from my MarkIV. I would like to get an old Mark cabinet to try the Marshalls through too.

The 75's sound like your typical Marshall with picky highs but a slightly scoopier sound thus giving the feeling of harshness. The V30's tend to have a little more honk therefore like you said a little warmer. If you really want honk though try the greenbacks. A 2203 into a greenback loaded cab is insane because you are seriously pushing the speakers with the 100 watt amp. The 65's give you a nice round sound. These are probably the most versatile of the lot. Nice rock tone there in spades. These speakers can also do classic metal. I just realized something. I haven't plugged the Mark IV into the 65 cab yet. I have had the 800 plugged into the 65's and the 75's for so long. I guess certain speakers just sound good with certain amps.

With the 6550's you will be getting more clarity and headroom than if you had EL-34's. My Marshalls are EL-34 equipped. The JMP doesn't sound right to me otherwise and the 800 just gets more of that classic Marshall sound with the EL-34's than with the 6550's though I have heard the 6550's and it gets a better thrash and speed metal sound. I should probably have the 6550's in the 800 but I am transitioning to the Mark IV for my thrash and speed. The 800 running EL-34's is just beautiful sounding when not dialed for chug though they make great classic metal amps.

 

[Finnster]

Holy Cow Russ...I really appreciate the answer. I may get a 1960A cab and just try it. The JCM800 is just so 'basic' and ballsy..I really love it but still tend to turn on my Stiletto Ace more often than the Marshall. My 800 does have tons of headroom with the 6550's, I can roll off the throttle and really clean her up...bad-*** tone monster!

 

[Russ]

Oh yeah. It is a definite must if you ever play a tube amp to at least try a good old 800.

 

[voodooamps]

This goes for the 4 holers too that are so coveted. With the Non Master Volume heads 1959/1987 types (not to discredit superbasses, supertremolos, JTMs, whathaveyou, but it is commonly understood that while talking about 4 holers that same holds true most of the time when generalizing these heads) you again choose the channel you want to run. These are even more complicated in a way too because of the bridging that you can run. Hmmmm.... that seems a little assbackwards but it is thought of as simpler?

Instinctively you are on the track. One of Jose’s favorite things to do was run extra gain stages in parallel verses series. It’s a very straight forward approach conceptually, especially considering the architecture of a non master volume Marshall however it’s not common practice when adding gain stages. While it does give you more gain it does not give as much gain as running stages in series but it does produce less noise that running all the stages in series, which is a huge factor.


Have a great day
Trace

 

[mightywarlock]

so if someone has a 2203 from 84 or 85 is it a good thing or a bad thing?

someone local has one (he didnt even know it was a 2203) and i am trying to decide whether to possibly pick it up or pass.

what was the good/bad years.

82-84? good?

after that bad?

 

[voodooamps]

so if someone has a 2203 from 84 or 85 is it a good thing or a bad thing? someone local has one (he didnt even know it was a 2203) and i am trying to decide whether to possibly pick it up or pass. what was the good/bad years. 82-84? good? after that bad?

As long as you take it to an experienced tech who has worked on hundreds of older Marshalls (knows all the variances, etc) then any JCM800 can be made to sound the way you want. It just depends on what tone(s) you like


Hope it helps
Trace

 

[ursinus]

BTW I just saw a superclean JCM800 reissue at Rockit Music in Brea. I think they're asking 1550.00 for it. This is a reissue of the vertical input 100 watt 2204 circuit. This is not mine, I just wanted to give a heads up.

 

[tunedown]

Russ, I'm impressed.

I currently use a 100w 2210 (dated 1985) that i love. I run 5881 tubes in it and LOVE the way it sounds.

Can I ask you a couple of questions?

(some people mod these using the reverb circuit as a basis for the extra gain stage without having to install yet another tube)

Again some mod the reverb channel into a footswitchable high-gain boost circuit. I have the schematic here somewhere if you want it and it is available if you look hard enough online. It takes the amp a little further without having to have a boost pedal because it is then built in and it is tube at that. There is also a tube buffered effects loop that I am sure can be modded into another gain stage or boost effect. I just haven't seen the schematic for that yet.

I am not well versed in the JCM Modding community, however, I recently removed my reverb unit from my 2210 (because I don't use it on the boost channel, and the jingling it makes during transport was driving me crazy) and I literally thought to myself "why can't I take this preamp tube that was driving my reverb and apply it as another gain stage?" So I've spent the last 2 days poking around and, sure enough, I find this post where you mention it TWICE.

Do you really have the schematic I'd need to do this mod? And may i PLEASE have it? I would die for an extra tube gain stage in this amp. I also intend to do a "Resonance" knob (ala EVH-5150) in the future using the former Reverb knob location. Are these common mods?

Also, you guys have mentioned channel bleed on these amps. What exactly are you refering to and what are the symptoms? I may have a head with that problem and just don't know it cause I'm not sure what to listen for...

I would take one hands down any day of the week over a 2203/2204. Oh wait, I already did that before.

Me too - I bought mine for $700. It's got rips in the tolex (along with white paint marks?) and was missing the back plate... Who cares what it looks like, it's functionally sound and all that matters to me is how it sounds. [/b]

 

[acidguitar]

Russ, great postings...So I figure you've owned a Marshall or two!!

I have a JCM800 2203 (Production Year 1983 - 6 Caps/ Vertical Input) and it sounds absolutely fantasitic. Why dont they make amps like this anymore!!!!

 

[CoG]

too loud, not enough features (okay, no features), not enough gain for modern tastes but the cleans aren't that hot either. Basically you really need to either be playing classic rock or be playing insanely loud, or really like boost pedals.

Besides, there's no shortage of JCM800s around at decent prices as it is...

 

[ytse_jam]

Have got a question for Russ or anyone who might know: what speakers are there in the 16 ohm jcm800 4x12" cabinet?

 

[Charlie]

Have got a question for Russ or anyone who might know: what speakers are there in the 16 ohm jcm800 4x12" cabinet?

I'm not 100% sure but I think they are 75 watt celestions. I've heard negative things about those speakers btw. The 65 watters are the bomb though. I've read that initially the JCM 800 got a bum rap until people started using them with older Marshall cabs and not the JCM 800 cabs.