jaxonmills' lsc thread (renamed)

[jaxonmills]

A bright, crackly shell on dirt might work for me, but I don't want it on my cleans. I might give those a try some time, but I'm pretty content with my sound right now. All of my guitars are sounding great through it, and it's super versatile. This is by far the happiest I've ever been with an amp.

 

[djw]

All of my guitars are sounding great through it, and it's super versatile. This is by far the happiest I've ever been with an amp.

That's right, baby. 8)

 

[jaxonmills]

Update: Country gig last night w/ Les Paul and G&L ASAT

I ran my LS with a Weber Mass 50w attenuator. I think its critical to open up the power section of an el 84 amp to find the amp's best dirty tones, much more so than with 6L6's. The Weber allowed me to do that, and I really enjoyed my tone. I still had some nice semi-clean tones on Ch. 1, and I was able to dial in a very satisfactory dirty tone on Ch. 2.

This was my first time using an attenuator. I think they're a useful tool. I'm not sure how the Weber attenuator stacks up against other brands, but I think it performed well. If I could find a better one, that would be great, but I'm not in any rush to get something else. I think it's a much better way of controlling overall volume than using the master, especially when running 84s.

I restrung my Les Paul with 9's before the gig. Last night was the first time I truly felt comfortable with the playability and sound of my Les Paul. I hadn't really been bonding with it, but I was really enjoying it last night and played it for the majority of the gig.

Also, I've got a Celestion Gold coming in sometime next week. I'll be running it with a Vintage 30 in a closed back 2x12. I'm also rewiring my pedalboard with Lava Cables that I picked up used for a good price. I'm looking forward to trying that stuff out.

It's looking more and more like the London will be for sale, if anyone is interested...

 

[plan-x]

I don't think I'll be springing for any major equip in this economy, but thanks for the report. Sounds like your having a ball. New LP huh. I've been reduced to dyi projects. But I'm having fun. Bet your getting some sweet tones from that 84/mass combo.

 

[joe.h]

great update jaxonmills,what kind of yellow jackets did you get for your lsc

 

[djw]

Right on jaxon. I think the LP + LSC thing is the fa-shizzle... even as much as I'm loving my new Tele with the amp, whenever I plug the LP in it kinda reminds me who's boss. We'll see once I put new pups in the Tele, I reckon... but the Gibson just has so much presence and body to it, the LSC just barks like a rottweiler with it.

Just curious, what kind of LP is it? Stock pups? And did you go DOWN to 9s?

 

[jaxonmills]

These are the yellow jackets I got:
http://thetubestore.com/yjsd.html

I switched out the Sovtek el84s that came with the YJ's for the JJ's that were in my 65amps London. The JJ's are a little smoother.

djw, it's a Custom shop VOS 1957 Reissue (I've had it for about 6 months now) with stock electronics and Burstbucker pickups, and I went down from 10s to 9s just a few hours before the gig. It seems like 10s should feel slinkier on the LP's short scale neck than on long scale Fender necks, but for some reason, 10s seemed stiff on my LP. They're just right on my ASAT and Strat, but stiff on the LP. It doesn't make sense to me, but that's the way it is for my guitars. The 9s feel great to me. A little brighter sounding with just the right action and amount of tension.

Again, I'm using just the 84's most of the time, so I don't know if I should call it a LSC or LSS thing, but whatever it is, I like it alot. Using the attenuator just allows me to unlock all of the amp's tones without being overly loud on stage.

The ASAT is great too with the amp, but the singer was playing his tele and strat, and the LP was just feeling right. I had been wanting to break it in.

 

[djw]

Jaxon, thanks for the thorough report. Congrats on breaking in the paul... I really think it's the perfect match with the LSC under any config. Guitars are funny. I have the same gauges on all my guitars (for some reason I use 11s), but the LP seems to be the slinkiest of the lot without a doubt. I was curious about your LP because I thought I was just about the only person I know who actually likes his burstbuckers... though I've been pup-replacement curious lately. My gold top was made right when they first started putting burstbuckers in the standards (late 2001). I'm pretty curious to see what it does with some good replacements (though it would have to be last in line behind my strat and LP Special -- Kinman's making P90s now).

 

[jaxonmills]

I've thought about replacing the pickups in the LP before. I've thought about it for all my guitars. For instance, I'd like to try WCR's in the LP, Fralin blues specials w/ a SP43 bridge pickup in the Strat, and something with a more traditional Telecaster sound and with a single coil in the neck position (which would require a new pickguard) for my ASAT. I might get around to all of this someday, or maybe not. I'm starting to understand that all of this isn't really a race to the finish line, so to speak. I'll probably never stop trying new, different stuff out. I'll never be finished, and I don't think that's a bad thing at all.

I know the Burstbucker pickups are capable of some really nice sounds, like in the Warren Haynes clip earlier in the thread. Warren Haynes' Signature LP uses the same Burstbuckers as my LP, although his guitar utilizes a special preamp to make his volume and tone controls more useful. From what I've read, it seems like changing the wiring would be the best first move, rather than swapping pickups. The prewired kits from RS Guitarworks are $85. They're supposed to give the pickups a more open sound as well as making the volume and tone controls more useful. This will probably be my next purchase:

http://www.rsguitarworks.net/rsstore/product_info.php?products_id=393&osCsid=l1t5jc4iepsqc8m3rtdjfretl7

 

[djw]

oooooo
thanks for the lead. 8)

 

[jaxonmills]

Yeah no problem. I wasn't sure if that was something you'd heard about or not.

Have you done any experimenting with preamp tubes in your LSC? Do you have any recommendations, NOS or new production? I'll browse some older threads in the meantime to see what I can find out.

 

[lostcause]

@jaxonmills
Ive been following this thread and decided to put a pair of YJ's in my LSC.
So I had 1 pr YJ's and 1 pr 6L6's.
It sounded quite all right at home but at a gig today...fail.
There were a few other reasons for the fail but lets not go there :roll:
Curious to know what settings you had on your amp and what sort of music you were playing.
The guitar I was using is a Heritage 150 with Seth's. Playing classic rock, pop etc.
Way to much compression for me with the YJ's.

Thanks

 

[jaxonmills]

I'm running mine like this:

YJ's in the outer sockets, 6v6s inside.
Vintage 30 2x12 closed back cab

Channel 2:
15 watt setting (using only the 84s for ch 2), diode rectifier, full power, thick voicing
Drive: around 1:30 (meaning 1 o'clock)
Gain: around 10:30
Treble: 1:00
Mid: 10:00
Bass: 9:00
Presence: 11:00
Master: 12:30
Reverb: barely on

I'm playing rock (a la Black Crowes, Weezer), alternative rock (Radiohead, Ryan Adams), some blues and Texas country. I set up Ch 2 to get along with my Les Paul, which has a somewhat dark, honky sound on its own.

The cleans shouldn't be all that different if you've got a set of 6L6s in there.

Also, I'm miked up on stage and need to keep my volume down. This setup gives me more volume than I'd ever need in this situation, but if I was unmiked in a loud band it's possible I'd feel the sound was too harsh and compressed, like when I turn the volume on the London up past 3:30 or so.

Try swapping the Sovteks for something else. I'm using JJ's that have more headroom, less harshness (note: I'm not saying all JJ's are necessarily like this). With the Sovteks and a set of NOS JAN Philips 84s, I felt like there was too much harshness and possibly compression. Also, try using the 4 ohm output. I saw that recommended when I was researching this topic for myself.

I knew coming into this that I liked low-wattage, el84 based amps. I like my 65 London's tone, but I figured I could get a close enough sound and more versatility in my LSC. Not only do I like the sound from this configuration, it works well for me as far as headroom and volume are concerned. If my needs changed, I might use 6L6s for a gig or something.

I also think I'll get better at getting the best sounds out of this configuration. I think I had more treble/harshness than I realized going into the mains at my last gig.

That's all I have to say. Hope this helps, but it might not get you where you want. Different strokes for different folks. People have enthusiastically recommended tons of stuff that didn't work for me. It's just the risk you take when you buy before you try.

 

[djw]

Have you done any experimenting with preamp tubes in your LSC? Do you have any recommendations, NOS or new production? I'll browse some older threads in the meantime to see what I can find out.

A little bit, and I've stuck with production stuff so far. Aside from a few variances, I wend with a menu straight from Doug:

V1 - Tung-Sol reissue
V2 - Mullard reissue
V3 - Penta Labs
V4 - Shuguang 9th gen
V5 - Sovtek LPS

I tried the JJ high-gain 12ax7 variant in V2 briefly (the ECC803s), but it didn't do too much for me... the Mullard so far has been the clear winner in that slot. I also tried a couple of 12AT7s in V5, but came back to the Sovtek because it just seems more juicy and fits my needs better right now. I have not gotten into NOS partly because of the expense, and partly because I'm afraid I'll get all attached to something that will not be available to me in the future... silly I know, but for the time being I'm happy getting the goods with production stuff. Maybe that will change.

 

[jaxonmills]

Would you say changing the preamp tubes resulted in a substantial tonal improvement? What are some of the tonal differences between those tubes and the stock tubes?

I've had very limited experience with NOS tubes. I remain a skeptic. If you're happy with current production tubes, I think that's the way to go.

 

[plan-x]

Even a set of standard JJ's should yeild a better, more open sound than the stock mesa preamp tubes. It's like the proverbial "blanket off the speaker cab". I didn't know what I was missing until I put those mesa's to rest. Actually, put the mesa's back in and thats when I really could hear it. I had thrown the blanket back on.

 

[djw]

Would you say changing the preamp tubes resulted in a substantial tonal improvement? What are some of the tonal differences between those tubes and the stock tubes?

I've had very limited experience with NOS tubes. I remain a skeptic. If you're happy with current production tubes, I think that's the way to go.

I would say that just about any tonal improvement is worth pursuing, and this definitely includes preamp tube upgrades. Noticeable, for sure; substantial, probably.

Differences: logically, it's mostly in the way the preamp handles your attack, especially the breakup style. My impression was that the Mesas were both cold and dark, and didn't produce the kind of texture I like to feel when I play, at least compared to the replacements I tried. After I swapped, everything felt smoother and more alive somehow. Definitely brighter, with some grain that I was more comfortable with, and better dynamic-handling. The Mesas made things feel murky and flat, where the new set seems to respond more readily to whatever I do. I find I can also work with the highs a little better now, they're less pointed and forced-sounding... they seem more like a natural part of the sound, and can be dialed out if I like.

The ECC803s in V2, which is where you'll get the most gain-focused results, was not what I'd hoped; it sounded a little harsh to my ears, whereas the Mullard is much more pleasing and smooth. But I have not had a chance to really give it a good field test, I'll fiddle with it more sometime. I know a lot of people really like this tube, so it's probably worth dropping a few bucks on just to see if you do.

I guess where taste plays in here heavily probably corresponds to which harmonics are emphasized by each tube combination; since these tubes are closest to your hands, it makes sense that what appeals to you is how these tubes translate your own stray harmonics and dynamics. Which is why we like the LS so much in the first place, right? So, yeah, do it.

PS. When swapping, I'd advise marking each of the stock Mesa 12ax7's with their slot # (v1, v2, etc) for future reference.... it comes in handy for troubleshooting later.

 

[plan-x]

djw wrote
My impression was that the Mesas were both cold and dark, and didn't produce the kind of texture I like to feel when I play, at least compared to the replacements I tried. After I swapped, everything felt smoother and more alive somehow. Definitely brighter, with some grain that I was more comfortable with, and better dynamic-handling. The Mesas made things feel murky and flat, where the new set seems to respond more readily to whatever I do. I find I can also work with the highs a little better now, they're less pointed and forced-sounding... they seem more like a natural part of the sound, and can be dialed out if I like.

The ECC803s in V2, which is where you'll get the most gain-focused results, was not what I'd hoped; it sounded a little harsh to my ears, whereas the Mullard is much more pleasing and smooth.

Yes! Very good description.

djw wrote
PS. When swapping, I'd advise marking each of the stock Mesa 12ax7's with their slot # (v1, v2, etc) for future reference.... it comes in handy for troubleshooting later.

Oh yeah, the phase inverter needs to be a balanced tube. A carefully picked(tested) tube. Don't loose track of that one, keep it marked.

 

[jaxonmills]

Alright, it looks like I'm buying (edit: bought) some new preamp tubes. I hate to burn through money like this, but it sounds like a no-brainer. Thanks for your suggestions. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

Also, my Celestion Gold came in, more on that later...

 

[jaxonmills]

I have a question: Can I run my amp's 4 ohm output into my Weber attenuator set at 8 ohms? It's switchable between 8 and 16 ohms, but not 4. If I can't do that, can I use the amp's 8 ohm output while running the el84/6v6 combo? Thanks.