jaxonmills' lsc thread (renamed)

[jaxonmills]

???

 

[plan-x]

I have heard....not exactly.

 

[jaxonmills]

Is it because the LSC doesn't run in Class A? How different is the sound?

Also, how does the LSC with a pair of EL84s and a pair of 6v6's compare to the LSS? Does anyone have any clips with this tube configuration?


Sorry for all the questions. Thanks for the help. I've got a LSC and a 65amps London. It'd be sweet if I could get my LSC in that sonic territory, but a little louder.

 

[plan-x]

To my knowledge there was one guy who pioneered that configuration on this board and that was Charles Reeder. A disciple of his was djw. Charles doesn't chime in anymore, he's moved on to the stiletto board. But djw still hangs around. From what I hear, it's a sweet set up. If do a search going back 1 yr on Charles Reeder, you'll find he has some threads on this, giving some great info on the type of tubes, their bias, etc. Oh and hey there Jaxon. Haven't seen you around these parts in awhile.

 

[jaxonmills]

Thanks for the help man.

I read up on some of those older posts. I think I'm going to give it a try. I really dig the el84 sound, and this is probably cheaper and more versatile than switching to a LSS.

 

[djw]

Hey dudes, I have a couple of clips of the EL84 + 6V6 combination... YouTube stuff, nothing too scientific. Here are a couple of pretty crunky clips from a show a while back:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jejyeU5tRvg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdDr0K5_Iv4
And here's one from a rehearsal around that time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YONb-hBqviY
And... ugh, okay, here's a clip from that same show, most of a song. It's a little messy -- my device was situated between my amp and the percussionist -- but skip ahead to about 1:40 and it starts getting interesting and I do some atmospherics with my Supa-Trem before going into a pseudo-jazzy solo. I like a little dirty-clean, so take that for what it is. Also, I was pretty much 3-4 beers in by that point. Les Paul, Ch1, no other effects. http://www.damonwood.com/curtisbumpy/shows/080823/31-JustLikeABaby.mp3

Anyway, I really liked the EL84/6V6 thing a lot. I switched back to 6L6s primarily when I loaded my amp with the Weber Blue Dog; the speaker seems to want the muscle, but I'll probably experiment some more soon. The smaller tubes config is really, really sweet; it just has a nice, distinct chime and bubbliness that practically glows, it's so sweet. I can't say it sounds exactly like an LSS, maybe the Class A thing is the reason... Definitely in interesting way to go though, and it'll save you a lot of cash.

You just need to take care transporting the amp with YJs in it, as the tubes tend to wiggle a bit.

 

[jaxonmills]

Thanks for the clips djw. I've seen the first two already, the others are cool too.

A couple of amps I'd like to be able to mimic are the 18 watt Marshall sound and the Gibson Super Goldtone GA-30RV as seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCiLCo-LoUg


Would you say the el84/6v6 tube config brightens the amp up some? I've found that I prefer brightness and bite in my gain sounds rathers than a smooth, fat, rich sound. I really like the sound of that Gibson amp and would like to be able to get close. It's got 4 el84s btw.

 

[djw]

Thanks for the clips djw. I've seen the first two already, the others are cool too.

A couple of amps I'd like to be able to mimic are the 18 watt Marshall sound and the Gibson Super Goldtone GA-30RV as seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCiLCo-LoUg


Would you say the el84/6v6 tube config brightens the amp up some? I've found that I prefer brightness and bite in my gain sounds rathers than a smooth, fat, rich sound. I really like the sound of that Gibson amp and would like to be able to get close. It's got 4 el84s btw.

Thanks jaxon. Wellll.... the best way to get that bite in your Lone Star's gain is by swapping the Gain and Master pots. But I digress. :wink: You should be able to get something like that with the tubes in question. It does brighten things up a fair amount; it removes a bit of the low-end mass, and focuses things a little bit higher; but it still produces a nice round tone with a lot of depth. I highly recommend it at the very least as something to experiment with.

 

[jaxonmills]

Cool man, that's what I like to hear, especially about losing some of the "low-end mass". I already did the Reeder mod, which definitely changes the character of the 2nd channel. I'm thinking the el84's and 6v6's are going to do the trick. I dig your Les Paul tone from that 2nd youtube clip.

My goal is to like my Lonestar enough to sell my London. Its too expensive, too quiet, and a one trick pony, but it does sound very, very good. I just want to be able to get that bright, snappy tone that gives up the goods without a fight from my Lonestar. To also have reverb, 2 channels, and the ability to run all sorts of different power tubes would be the icing on the cake.

Also, with this tube config, do I run tweed or full power, and 6L6 or EL84 bias?

 

[djw]

Cool man, that's what I like to hear, especially about losing some of the "low-end mass". I already did the Reeder mod, which definitely changes the character of the 2nd channel. I'm thinking the el84's and 6v6's are going to do the trick. I dig your Les Paul tone from that 2nd youtube clip.

My goal is to like my Lonestar enough to sell my London. Its too expensive, too quiet, and a one trick pony, but it does sound very, very good. I just want to be able to get that bright, snappy tone that gives up the goods without a fight from my Lonestar. To also have reverb, 2 channels, and the ability to run all sorts of different power tubes would be the icing on the cake.

Also, with this tube config, do I run tweed or full power, and 6L6 or EL84 bias?

Thanks again, jaxon. I like those 65's too, and it's nice to hear an LSC is in the running to push one aside. Personally, I have my LSC set up at this point such that it's just pure joy to play with... can't believe how good it sounds an feels. The Les Paul really, really likes this amp. (So does my new Tele...)

Full power or tweed: Charles Reeder pointed out that most modern 6v6s can handle the higher voltages that the LSC will put out. If you read his thread about that, I think he put some bias ratings up there that you can try to get from whichever dealer you use. So I generally use the full power setting... tweed is a little too mushy for me in performance settings.

...and I think you mean 6L6 or EL34 bias settings. Yellowjackets can take either, they're self-biasing; and typically you use 6V6s with the 6L6 setting... BUT... Charles, again, fiddled around with matching hotter 6V6s with the EL34 bias setting, and he really liked that. I was so-so about it, but maybe I didn't give it a fair enough trial. Having gone back to 6L6s (JJs now) maybe I was inclined to veer away from the EL34 side of things anyway. My JCM800 covers that territory for me better than any other amp I've played, so that seems not to be what I'm looking for in the LSC.

 

[jaxonmills]

We'll see if the Lonestar competes with the London at the el84 thing. My London blew a power tube, so I finished practice with the Lonestar (loaded with KT77s, which I'm not crazy about), and I couldn't really say that the London was better. Different, but not really better. The London I'm sure sounds great miked up, but unmiked it's not quite loud enough sometimes, a problem the Lonestar won't have. I've heard some LSS clips over the past few days, and I was really impressed with the way it sounded with a Les Paul. I've also heard its good with teles and strats. I'd like to set up channel 1 for a nice fat strat sound and add pedals for dirt, and set up channel 2 for a more brittle sound for my LP. I really dig the small bottle tones.

djw, which do you prefer, the LSS or the LSC w/ el84s and 6v6s? How are they different?

 

[djw]

Well, I only have the LSC, and I've only played an LSS a few times (at Guitar Center) so I can't give you an authoritative answer on which I like better that way. But I think I can say this: the LSS's native EL84 sweetness is easily, in my mind, overpowered by the configurability of the LSC and its capacity to get close to, if not exactly, the same EL84 character -- as well its ability to take 6V6s, 6L6s, EL34s etc. That, and: the LSC has some oomph that the LSS doesn't quite have, in my short experience. It might partly be the larger cabinet, but it also could be its ability to smoothly deliver many more watts of clean power without breaking a sweat. It's not really, you know, 3 times as loud, but the extra power does make a difference. So I'm partial to the flexibility and the extra muscle.

 

[jaxonmills]

Thanks for the help djw. I'm ordering some yellow jackets and a pair of 6v6s soon. I'll let you know how it turns out.

If anyone else has any experience with this tube config., please chime in.

 

[djw]

Thanks for the help djw. I'm ordering some yellow jackets and a pair of 6v6s soon. I'll let you know how it turns out.

If anyone else has any experience with this tube config., please chime in.

Chime in -- ar ar. It's a very chimey configuration.

Yeah, definitely let us know how it goes. I think you'll like it a lot.

 

[jaxonmills]

tubes ordered...now the waiting begins. i've got high hopes for this experiment.

 

[jaxonmills]

Alright, I've now had the tubes for a few days, and I've got to say I like 'em...a lot.

I replace the Sovtek el84's with the JJ's from my London, which eased some of the harshness. I also tried some NOS Jan Philips el84's, but they sound better in the London and the JJ's sound better in the Lonestar, so it works out.

I'm using just the el84's with the diode rectifier on the dirty channel. This setup sounds really great with all my guitars, especially the Les Paul and ASAT. I do not like the sound of this channel with the 6v6s added in, though. It gives the sound a hardness and darkness that I don't like in my dirty sounds. It just doesnt sound natural to me. With just the 84's, I can approximate the sounds of my London, but with much more flexibility (eq, preamp gain, and volume) and less harshness in the sound. It's waaaay more versatile.

I haven't experimented as much with the clean channel, but so far I've had good results using both the el84's and 6v6's. This channel sounds really good with my strat, nice and fat with a little breakup if I want it. Enough headroom for my needs. I'd expect it to sound good with the asat as well. It's nice to have reverb, too.

Anyway, I like the amp. I hope the dirty sounds continue to grow on me. If they do, I'll eventually sell the London, although I am temped to try it with an attenuator, but I dont know if I feel like it. I've heard the London is a fantastic recording amp, but I could use the money for some new pickups, etc.

Thanks djw and plan-x for the help. It seems to be working out so far. I might switch out the 6v6's for 6L6's or something, but the el84's are here to stay for a while. Again, thanks.

 

[plan-x]

Thanks for the review dude! Keep us updated. Thanks to Charles (Pig whisperer) also for his ground breaking posts.

 

[djw]

Yeah, glad you like the setup. I know what you mean about the hardness; what kind of 6v6s did you get? I found the EHs were hard but brought out lots of harmonics and chime; the JJs were darker and more natural somehow. I actually never found any 6v6 that really thrilled me, but I loved the el84 thing with just about any combo, and liked the combo more than the el84s by themselves, for the most part. But you can get a nice Voxy thing going that way... Good stuff.

 

[jaxonmills]

They're JJ 6v6S with a 21 hardness rating running on EL-34 bias. I like the clean sound, but the dirt not so much. Maybe I'll try some EH's for brightness, but maybe not. I don't want to sacrifice my clean sounds, and 15 watts should be enough for the dirt.

 

[djw]

Yeah, I sort of liked the bright crackly shell that the EHs put around the dirt; but I suspect that's not what you're looking for, based on what you've said you're after. Sounds like you're on your way with just the EL84s for dirt and JJ 6V6 + EL84 for clean. Right on! Enjoy, post some clips, etc.