Is a Noisy ACE normal?

[booger73]

Hi all,

Recently purchased a new Stiletto ACE 2x12 Combo.

Firstly, love, love it. I can't believe it's been discontinued and there are so many haters who obviously have no idea about tone and cutting through the mix when live.

Anyway, first time rehearsing with it last night and got quite a bit of noise when on channel 2 in tight gain mode. Settings where as follows: gain 12 (o'clock), treb 9, mid 12, bass 3, pres 11, volume 10, master 12.

Running an effects loop with delay and reverb and send volume at 12 o'clock.

I have replaced all pre amp tubes as follows: v1 tungsol, v2 JJ, v2-4 tungsol, v5 svetlana.

Power amp and recto tubes stock messa.

Is this noise normal? Is there anyway to tame it? Should I replace power and recto tubes and can they be replaced by any or must be Mesa due to fixed bias?

Noise is high gain hum. I should also mention my guitar is a Deluxe HSS Strat with N3 noiseless pups. Effect pedals are power isolated.

Thanks for helping out!

Boog.

 

[Old BF Shred]

Does it produce the same noise when no guitar cable is plugged in?
If not, then the amp is likely OK.
You'll always pick up some 60hz hum even with humbucker/noiseless pickups. It gets in through the plug and jack, internal guitar wiring and even the most well shielded, high end cables.

There is a lot of gain on tap in the Stiletto amps. Unfortunately it amplifies any noise/hum along with the signal.
I also notice this (with humbuckers) and it is worse with my Shure wireless, but it is not an issue when playing notes at normal volume levels (single coils are worse, but even HB's will do this). Single coil Strat/Tele players are used to turning down the guitar's volume between songs.

If you play near fluorescent lights it can be worse...they produce a lot of hum that can be picked up.

If you get the same noise with no cable plugged in then it could be bad power supply filter capacitor(s), but Stilettos are not old enough to likely have a failure of this type. Possible, but not likely, yet. The caps, unless defective, usually last decades.

Good luck in your troubleshooting!

 

[booger73]

ok, tested with nothing plugged in an only noticeable noise was on tight and fluid gain, just a slight hiss. Not the other hum.

Once I plugged the guitar in (no effects loop) I did get some hum on the Humbucker but not on the N3 noiseless Singles. I suspect this will worsen when effects loop is added, which probably explains it.

Am I correct in assuming slight hiss on the high gain channels is normal?

I guess I now need to perhaps look at some decent cables to help shield the noise better?

B73.

 

[Old BF Shred]

Sounds normal to me!

My Ace does the same thing.
Also the Tung sol 12ax7's (at least that I have tried) are strong tubes...higher gain than most new production tubes I've tried. More gain will mean more hiss, but I have used one in V1 and I liked the results.

I'd bet if you swap the JJ to V1 the noise will be lower (unless you have a specifically high gain tested JJ).

V1 (or V2 for fat clean and fluid drive) is where most of the noise will be generated. A higher gain tube in this position will tend to bring that out.

Good cables are important, but remember, noise gets in at other point of the signal chain, too.
The effects loop should not generate much noise as the signal levels at that point are high enough, compared to the level of noise, to mask it.

You can try different brands of tubes (V1 or V2 making the most difference) to see if you can find one with good gain and lower noise. The Electro-harmonix 12ax7 seems to be pretty good at doing this, so did the original Mesa Russian made ones. (they are practically the same tube).

I know tubes aren't cheap, but experimenting with different brands (or even moving around the ones you have to different sockets) may lead you to the best combination.

Good luck!

 

[booger73]

Swapped out the v1 TS for a JJ. Mild improvement. Seems better if I crank channel volume before cranking master vol?

 

[Old BF Shred]

That makes sense.
The channel volumes set the level of drive to the FX loop. If too low and master set high, the loop may generate some noise after all. All parts of the amp's circuit do generate some noise. The signal going in has to be set enough above the inherent noise in the loop circuit.
Normally the loop circuit, while it is not designed for high gain, and usually not a significant contributor to noise, still could add to it if it has to work with a signal input that is not high enough above that noise level.

To put in non technical terms, it may be "working" too hard.
On the other hand, too high a channel volume could overdrive the FX pedals and cause clipping distortion. You will want to experiment to find the best level for your specific FX units.

Take care!

 

[booger73]

Thanks for your help. One last Q. Do I absolutely need to put mesa power tubes in or can I get JJs, etc? I don't have the bias mod, so fixed bias still.

 

[Old BF Shred]

If it is still under warranty, Mesa may be the way to go. You don't want a problem with warranty if it does need service. Mesa may not cover damage if caused by non Mesa output tubes.
Also the new Mesa's are actually JJ's, unless that just recently changed.
So if you like JJ's the Mesa tubes would be the "cream of the crop" JJ's. They do excellent testing and have a great warranty on those tubes.
Considering quality control, Mesa tubes aren't a bad deal at all.

But if you want to save cash and warranty issues do not apply to you, there are many places that can provide tubes. I like Tube Depot, personally.
Just be sure to tell them they are for a Mesa amp and are equivalent to Groove Tube #5 rating and they should get you what will work for your Stiletto. Also some places offer burn in for a few more dollars. If not too much more money, it's a good idea.

Later,

 

[booger73]

Just bought it, the shop wanted to flog it as it new old stock, just wondering if it's been sitting around not doing much for a couple of years if a power tube replacement may be in order? But I guess with such good quality control they should be good for a few more years.

 

[abe]

Mine is noisy too. I tried different tube combos but it didn't really make a difference. I tried running two noise gates, one in the loop and one in front. It worked, but the in the loop always would never come off quick enough when I was in the clean channel so I stopped using it. I keep the one in front. I use Boss NS-2 gates. I am always mic'd, so between songs I switch to clean tofound myse the noise.

My Peavey 6505 is slightly noisier, and I do the same thing when I use that one.

If you never need to switch to clean, or can actually remember to turn the second gate on and off, it makes a huge difference, but I never remember to turn it off. The gate in the loop can also tend to be a little finicky and I found myself tweaking it at every show

 

[abe]

Sorry for the illegible post! I am couchbound and my Ipad is dead. It is hard to do this on my phone!

 

[Old BF Shred]

B73, if you bought the amp as new and got the warranty card, you should be covered. And Mesa tubes have a 6 month warranty anyway. Unless it was really used a LOT as a demo amp, they should be good for some time to come.
If in doubt, call Mesa and have them verify your warranty.
You can even register it on line, now.

Go Chargers!

 

[booger73]

Got a new set of power tubes under warranty. Great support Mesa! Also I've found if I turn the channel volumes up before the master and solo I get less noise, hardly any now. Love this amp!!!