IIC+ And IV Modes

[boogieman88]

First of all, I accidentally posted this under "Modern Era Amps" as well, so my apologies for the double post as I meant to post it here only:

I owned the Mark V for about 2-1/2 years before trading (about 3 months ago,) and just bought another one (after massively regretting my trade.) Anyhow, I'm pretty familiar with the amp and have found that to MY EARS, running my Mark V through one of my Mark IVs power sections makes a MASSIVE difference in the depth and punch of the overall modes (mainly talking about IIC+ and IV modes here.) Now, I have never once played a IIC+, but I own quite a few Mark IV's (A and B) and am basing this on the fact that the IV's lead channel was supposed to be similar to the IIC+. In the end, I understand a lot of people's gripes about the the V's IIC+ mode, and it's lack of well...you know. Even the Mark IV mode on the V just comes to life with the Mark IV's power section. I run effects loop out of the V into the return of the IV. From doing this I have really been able to pick apart the differences in modes, as it seems they are much more complex and 3-D. Mabey I just prefer the Mark IV's power section to the Mark V's. The Mark IIC+ mode now has such an urgent and sparkley attack, with a fat punch underneath it, that it's hard for me to get out of it. Before I tried using the IV's power section, I was highly dissapointed, now I can't get out of it. As a matter of fact, the entire amp (V) is better in my opinion when running it through the IV's power section. Overall, I feel it adds some of that missing link. What are the differences between the V and IV's power section, and why is there such a huge difference in depth between the two? Has anyone else done this, and what are your findings?

 

[SteveO]

IIRC, one of the reasons the IV was discontinued was the lack of availability of one (or both, I can't remember which) of the transformers. Hopefully somebody else can confirm or refute this, but it seems that I heard something along those lines.

 

[eet fuk]

There is a tube buffer stage after the loop on the IV with a 15u cap bypassing the 1k cathode r. I've heard somewhere that the V doesn't have this cap. If so, it's an easy remedy for a tech. The cap provides the lowend. I have a IV, but you know how it is, the grass is always greener on the other side.

 

[thunder100]

. From doing this I have really been able to pick apart the differences in modes, as it seems they are much more complex and 3-D. Mabey I just prefer the Mark IV's power section to the Mark V's. The Mark IIC+ mode now has such an urgent and sparkley attack, with a fat punch underneath it, that it's hard for me to get out of it.

Would you mind to post your II C+ setting ,as you use it through the IV power section here?I would like to try as well but with annother (Colliseum head) power section?

And which speakers do you use?

Big influence as stated above is what transformer a tube amp uses

Thanks

Roland

 

[mule#1]

When you are running the MK V power section are you in 90 watts? because that is the silicone diode rectifier which would differ from the MK IV all tube power section. I would say for a true comparison set it to 45 watts and tube rectifier on the V.

 

[boogieman88]

Sorry for the late relpy guys, home computer not working so well lately...

SteveO, you may be correct. Either way, I have been seriously thinking about getting the two transformer upgrades Mercury Magnetics offers for the V...It could only help.

eet fuk, thank you very much for that info! I'm going to bring that up to my tech (who is also my Boogie dealer) for sure once we start looking at ways to modify the power section. Sometimes a small change can make a big difference!

thunder100, as far as my IIC+ mode setting goes (all o'clock): Gain: 3:30, Master: 9:00, Presence 12:00, Treble 1:30, Middle 8:30 (just a hair under 9:00,) Bass 11:30, Bright, 90 Watts Simul-Class, Pentode, Classic V Graphic with a small bump in the low-mids. Effects loop level set to 12:00 (straight up,) effects loop out to Moog MF-101, Deluxe Memory Man, Stereo Polychorus and all other effects, into effects return of the Mark IV. I have the Mark IV's rear rotary switch set to Channel 3, and have Ch.3's presence pulled on the Mark IV (NON-extreme mode.) Mark IV's presence is set to about 4 on the dial (NOT o'clock in regards to the IV.) Effects loop is set to ON (not switching,) Simul-Class, Pentode, Graphic EQ ON with a classic V (with the center mids bumped between the bottom and center line.) When using the effects loop out of the V I just hit the mute switch on the V's footswitch, so the V's power amp can't be heard. I run this through either a Standard Straight Rectifier 4x12 with stock Mesa/V30's, or a TRM Ported 2x12 Closed Back with EVM12L Classics. So with these approximate settings I've captured one heck of a killer and responsive tone. Last night I also tried the Slave Out of the V, instead of using effects loop out. Now it's all about me understanding and fine tuning my setup, but there's no doubt now that the V's preamp section is a total beast! I can't believe how grainy and thin the V's power section is compared to the IV's. When playing it through the IV's power section and switching modes (like from IV mode to IIC+ mode) I can now hear huge dynamic differences, different overtones, attack, structure, etc...it's just really killer. When not playing my V through the IV's power section and switching modes it's almost like it's just different levels of grainyness and gain are the only things noticed. And yes, I plan on swapping out the stock transformers for the two upgrades that Mercury Magnetics offers.

mule#1, The only rectifier option in any of the Mark IV's modes or power settings WAS silicone diode. Also, the only way to engage the tube rectifier in the Mark V's Channel 3 would be to run it in 10 watts, not 45. The Mark IV never had a tube rectifier, so I don't know what you mean by "the MK IV all tube power section." The tube rectifier in the V really has nothing to do with what we're talking about here. Here's from the V's manual: Switchable Rectifiers makes its debut on the MARK Series for the first time here on the FIVE in the form of Rectifier Tracking. Channels 1 and 2 are fitted with individual mini toggles (located under the Channel 1 and 2 REVERB Controls) that allow you to choose between the tight, bold - higher headroom response of Silicon DIODES or the saggier, sweeter low-output looseness of TUBES in the 45 Watt Power setting only. The 90 Watt setting automatically selects the Silicon Diodes and the 10 Watt setting requires the Tube Rectifier to operate safely. . So as you can see, Silicon Diodes are the only option when running in Simul-Class of either the IV or V. Thanks for your help/input though. If I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say please explain.

 

[mule#1]

What I was saying was the actual MK IV didn't have silicone diodes and to compare the V to it you should try the tube option st 45 watts but I did misspeak as you cant. I was thinking of channel 2. Sorry for the incorrect information.

I actually like the silicone diode rectifier on the V. It still sounds night and day different from a Dual Rec!