How to record a Triple Rectifier

[DS-1]

Hi guys! I have a Triple Rectifier run thru a Marshall 4x12 1960a and I have to start record our first album (we're an Italian band, www.myspace.com/sulaventrebianco) and I'd like to know how to record a big guitar sound for the album. I like the sound of my Mesa live, but when I put an SM57 on the speaker and try to record the guitar, it always seems that the sound is too bassy, with few highs and always too "artificial" for my ears. It's clear that I don't pretend to have the sound of the major albums (I really like System Of A Down studio guitars!), but I listened to many clips here and they always rock, while mine...sucks! My setup is:

Triple Rectifer
Marshall 1960a
Fender Stratocaster with DiMarzio Super Distortion on the bridge or Fender Jaguar with the same pickup
Tons of pedals (Big Muff and SD-1 in the input, various delays and choruses thru loop)
2 SM57 and 1 Rode NT1
Cheap PreSonus pre (the blu one)

As you can hear on the demo on MySpace (the recordings are very raw), we're 2 guitars (the other one is a Les Paul thru a Brunetti amp, very nice one!) and I use the clean channel, the 2nd channel trying to get a "high-gain crunchy" sound (vintage mode), and the 3th in modern style (System Of A Down ispiration).

Can anyone try to explain me ho to set the amp, mics and mics pre to have a "bigger sound"? Thanks in advance for the reply.

 

[fishyfishfish]

There are several simple things you can do to record your amp. The most information you can get is on line and trial and error. Good luck!

 

[Devho]

It never hurts to roll back the bass a little bit on your amp and then do a little bit of MINOR eq stuff after you record. Keep in mind MINOR; you don't want to lose the tone you're going of/already have. A little compression never hurt anyone either.

 

[nitrous2400]

if your getting to much bass it would prob be because of the mic location.

1)when the microphone is directed towards the dome of the speaker you get more treble and aggressive sound.

2)when the mic is in the middle inbetween the dome and the edge of the speaker you get less treble, more lower mids and smoother balanced sound.

3)when the mics toward the outter edge of the speaker its even less treble and more lower mids and an even more smoother sound.

I'd say mess around with your mic placement and see what sounds good to you. if that doesnt work try messin with your eq cut sum bass and boost the mids. good luck with it dude

 

[FullMontySmurf]

What sounds good to my ears is layering different guitar tracks. I know, it is more work to get the different layers tight. To my ears, a bassy recording makes the end result sound muffled. A crisp recording, may sound harsh/thin/trebly. However, by layering two rather crispy (mic to the center of the speaker) tracks, somehow the sound thickens and warms up.

When panning both tracks to the left and right (you can experiment with the level of panning), you get that 3D sound heard on many pro recordings.

At least, that's my experience when I gave double tracking a try after reading about it.

 

[Core9]

#1 RULE:
Run less gain than you normally would on stage.

What I did with our last cd was to run and track my signal live like this;

No boost or OD used anywhere on these recordings.
Both Mesa heads set to Spongy and Tube Rec modes.

3 tracks of high gain rhythm tones recorded simultaneously:
Guitar -> VHT Valvulator -> MXR Phase 90 -> MXR Flanger -> Morley Bad Horsie -> Mesa HighGain amp switcher
->Mesa Road King I -> Mesa 2x12 Recto cab panned in the middle
->Mesa DR -> Mesa 4x12 Recto cab panned left
->Mesa Triaxis/2:90 -> Mesa 4x12 Recto cab panned right
Note: All amps were pushed just to point of power tube saturation.

2 tracks of clean guitar tones recorded simultaneously:
Guitar -> VHT Valvulator -> MXR Phase 90 -> MXR Flanger -> Morley Bad Horsie -> Mesa HighGain amp switcher
-> Mesa Triaxis/2:90 -> 4x12 Recto cab panned/blended
-> Soldano SLO -> Mesa 4x12 Recto cab panned/blended
Note: All amps were at medium output.

2 tracks of lead tones recorded simultaneously:
Guitar -> VHT Valvulator -> MXR Phase 90 -> MXR Flanger -> Morley Bad Horsie -> Mesa HighGain amp switcher
-> Mesa Triaxis/2:90 or Hiwatt Custom 50 -> 4x12 Recto cab panned/blended
-> Soldano SLO -> 4x12 Recto cab panned/blended
Note: All amps were pushed into power tube saturation.

All amps were set up for a different tone (basically dialed in for what each is best at). After recording we blended/panned different tones as needed to get the sound we wanted.

A couple of tracks for you can check out:

Breathe
All tracks recorded playing my flame maple/mahogony PRS Custom 24 loaded with EMG 81/85 pups
MXR flanger engaged on the clean intro, guitar lines during the verses and clean breaks after key change

This Rage Is On
All tracks recorded playing my solid flame maple Hamer Californian Elite loaded with EMG 81/SA pups
Bad Horsie used on outro

For You
All tracks recorded playing my flame maple/mahogony PRS Custom 24 loaded with EMG 81/85 pups
MXR flanger engaged on clean bridge section
Note: Intro is actually my bass player on a Hamer 12 string bass.

Visions
All tracks recorded playing my flame maple/mahogony PRS Custom 24 loaded with EMG 81/85 pups

Get out of My Way
All tracks recorded playing my solid flame maple Hamer Californian Elite loaded with EMG 81/SA pups
MXR phase 90 engaged on riffs and verses

Rippin'
All tracks recorded playing my solid flame maple Hamer Californian Elite loaded with EMG 81/SA pups
Bad Horsie used on first half of solo
I played an acoustic guitar to back the clean intro and bridge

As you can see, by tracking the same guitar through multiple amps we had the ability to blend them as needed for each song. This also saves time and money in the studio.

p.s. It's a woman singing, just in case you didn't get it.

 

[bluesymetal]

Everything posted so far is good advice.

I just want to chime in to say that most of the records you hear are multiple (3+) layers of guitars recorded with much less gain than what would be used live. You can do some tracks with more or less mids, highs, lows etc... and the final result of the layering sounds like one huge guitar sound. It will probally sound really thin as you do each track seperatly, but once you hear them all mixed together it will sound really nice.

 

[DS-1]

Thanks a lot fot the replies guys! I'll try to follow all your tricks! Another thing I'd like to ask is how should we use the "ambiental" microphone (like the Rode NT we have) to record guitars. When I use 2 SM57 on my 4x12 I hear a very directive sound, instead when I use the Rode I've found that it makes sound the room well if putted far from the 4x12, instead if I use it at 1.5 from the Marshall cab, as I red on many sites, I just have a sort of radio sound...

For Core9: do you do different guitar takes with all those amps or do you run your guitar thru 3 amps and play one time?

 

[Core9]

For Core9: do you do different guitar takes with all those amps or do you run your guitar thru 3 amps and play one time?

I play my guitar into 3 amps at one time.

 

[DS-1]

For Core9: do you do different guitar takes with all those amps or do you run your guitar thru 3 amps and play one time?

I play my guitar into 3 amps at one time.

Gasp...this will give you a huge sound! What do you mean when you say "all amps were pushed just to point of power tube saturation"? In the case of my Rectifier, how should put it correctly to power tube saturation?

 

[Core9]

For Core9: do you do different guitar takes with all those amps or do you run your guitar thru 3 amps and play one time?

I play my guitar into 3 amps at one time.

Gasp...this will give you a huge sound! What do you mean when you say "all amps were pushed just to point of power tube saturation"? In the case of my Rectifier, how should put it correctly to power tube saturation?

I wanted a tight rhythm sound with some power tube coloration. I cranked the amps just up to the point where the power tubes were really cooking, but not really into distortion. I wanted to keep the dynamics alive, instead of turning it into compressed mush.

 

[DS-1]

So what you did to get power tube coloration is turning up the volume and lowering the gain?

 

[Bchewdown]

the guy at my local studio won't even mess with my TRIPLE RECTO...
but he's a scared lil girl who only likes traditional expensive play it safe crap...but there is some good advice here for me too!!!!

 

[Bchewdown]

here's a really bad example of a MESA DUAL RECTO, not mic'd properly..
www.myspace.com/diseasedband
these guy's are my friends i grew up with...(sorry Joe!!!)

 

[Core9]

So what you did to get power tube coloration is turning up the volume and lowering the gain?

Yes. Tubes amps sound their best when pushed, just don't over do it. The sound will turn to mush if you go too far. The gain was a little lower than what I would use live. Dial in what sounds best for your setup.

 

[DS-1]

I've tried pushing power tubes with the general master control (with loop on) and I have to say that it sounds better, but I've tried it live and not in recording session, that starts next week. Do a Rectifier sounds the same with the loop off(so only with the master and gain for every channel), or on (with masters for every channel and a general master volume)?. Basically I'd like to know in which configuration power tubes work better.

 

[Core9]

I've tried pushing power tubes with the general master control (with loop on) and I have to say that it sounds better, but I've tried it live and not in recording session, that starts next week. Do a Rectifier sounds the same with the loop off(so only with the master and gain for every channel), or on (with masters for every channel and a general master volume)?. Basically I'd like to know in which configuration power tubes work better.

The power tubes will work the same. Depending on your loop, effects, etc, there may be a tonal difference.

 

[DS-1]

So...that's my "sounds", all recorded with a Fender Stratocaster with DiMarzio SuperDistortion on bridge (distorted clips) and Seymour Duncan JB Jr. on neck (little clean clip):

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VLOYLV2U

The channels are:

- ch1 clean, presence at 12, master 1, gain 10, bass 11, middle 2, high 2-3;

- ch2 raw, presence at 12, master 10, gain 2, bass 9 (!), middle 2, high 2-3;

- ch3 modern, presente at 8-9, master 10, gain 2, bass 8-9 (!!!), middle 2, high 2-3.

I used a cable to activate the loop, so the master is set to 1-2 o' clock. We used 2 SM 57 (center and off axis) and a Rode NT2 as "ambiental". Our pres are "Pro Sonus", a very cheap tube ones. Sloppy playing by the way!!! I'm waiting for your sentence...!

:shock:

 

[Core9]

I would add a little more mid to fill it in some or reduce the treble, but overall sounds like a Recto.

 

[DS-1]

Thanks for listening it! Don't you think there are still too basses?