hey everyone, maybe some one can help me on this one i play a gibson les paul custon, stock pickups, and was wondering how to clean up my roadster sound a bit to muddy, on ch 3-4 mostly 4. ive heard people using the tubescreamers but is it the ts9 808? i have a zakk wylde od but it seems to change the tone drastically no matter what settings i use someone help me on that and ive been thinking of putting some jj tubes and tung sol's will this help also???????????????????????????????
how can i tighten up my roadster bottom end?
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Chris McKinley
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First, ease off on the question marks, I've heard that muddies up your sound. :mrgreen:
Actually, tightening up your Roadster can be done in one of two fairly easy ways, or you can combine them. You can run an overdrive between the guitar and the amp, which it sounds like you've already tried. And yes, it will color your sound, it's supposed to. All overdrives will color your sound at least a little, whether it's a Tubescreamer or not. In a Recto, this is usually a very good thing anyway, since those amps tend to lack a lot of harmonics in the mids. You can minimize the coloring of your sound by turning up the "level" knob to at or near full, and turning down the "gain" knob to zero or 25% at most.
The other main option is to run a graphic EQ pedal in your effects loop and cut the 200Hz slider by about 4 to 6 decibels. This will cut the mud frequencies, but it will also cut overall bass somewhat, so you may wish to compensate for it by boosting 100Hz by 2 to 4 decibels to make up for it. The bass should now be even lower, more percussive, but also clearer.
Actually, tightening up your Roadster can be done in one of two fairly easy ways, or you can combine them. You can run an overdrive between the guitar and the amp, which it sounds like you've already tried. And yes, it will color your sound, it's supposed to. All overdrives will color your sound at least a little, whether it's a Tubescreamer or not. In a Recto, this is usually a very good thing anyway, since those amps tend to lack a lot of harmonics in the mids. You can minimize the coloring of your sound by turning up the "level" knob to at or near full, and turning down the "gain" knob to zero or 25% at most.
The other main option is to run a graphic EQ pedal in your effects loop and cut the 200Hz slider by about 4 to 6 decibels. This will cut the mud frequencies, but it will also cut overall bass somewhat, so you may wish to compensate for it by boosting 100Hz by 2 to 4 decibels to make up for it. The bass should now be even lower, more percussive, but also clearer.
giantstepjoe
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I've read all of Chris's posts on this subject and he is spot on. I tried the Eq in the loop (mxr 31 band)with 200 scooped out and the overdrive(ts-9) in front and it was like taking a blanket off the amp. I thought it sounded good beforehand but now it's ridiculous how good this rig sounds. It now has a tight articulate bass response that cuts through seriously thick mixes.
i got ride of some question marks and it helped a litle. the eq thing is something i want to try, what brand of EQ do you recommed with the rectos? i have never used one before and where would i place it in the effects loop, i have a dunlop cry, then my overdrive, flange, phase, chorus andnoise gate and delay, in that order, do you think a ts9 or 808 will be better fit than the wylde od? thanx guys your the best,
clutch71
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I was fortunate in that I have a buddy that owns the TS-9, TS9DX, and TS808 RI. He let me borrow all three to find out which one I wanted.
My rig at the time was a 2ch DR
The TS9 - I found too midrangy for my taste but a very transparent pedal.
TS9DX - While having the characteristics of the TS 9 and TS 808, I found it a close facsimile of each, but not true to the original of either. I found no onther uses for the other two modes although I'm sure there are. Too bad because the price is great.
TS808 RI - What I went with, and my favorite OD pedal to date, added warmth, a tighter feel, and clarity to the distortion that the other two lacked. There is no signal degredation or additional hi gain hum with this pedal in the chain.
I have also tried the Zakk Wylde. It seems to color the tone and is real squealy at cranked tones. The OCD is a happy medium between the ZW and 808, while it didn't appear to color the tone as much as the ZW, it was squealy at cranked tones as well.
I recommend that you run the Delay, Chorus, and EQ in the loop. Everythings else can go out front.
My rig at the time was a 2ch DR
The TS9 - I found too midrangy for my taste but a very transparent pedal.
TS9DX - While having the characteristics of the TS 9 and TS 808, I found it a close facsimile of each, but not true to the original of either. I found no onther uses for the other two modes although I'm sure there are. Too bad because the price is great.
TS808 RI - What I went with, and my favorite OD pedal to date, added warmth, a tighter feel, and clarity to the distortion that the other two lacked. There is no signal degredation or additional hi gain hum with this pedal in the chain.
I have also tried the Zakk Wylde. It seems to color the tone and is real squealy at cranked tones. The OCD is a happy medium between the ZW and 808, while it didn't appear to color the tone as much as the ZW, it was squealy at cranked tones as well.
I recommend that you run the Delay, Chorus, and EQ in the loop. Everythings else can go out front.
Chris McKinley
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swivs,
RE: "what brand of EQ do you recommed with the rectos?". Which brand of amp you're playing through has nothing to do with which EQ you choose. Most pedal graphic EQ's are 7-band, meaning 7 sliders to adjust. The Boss GE-7 is a perennial favorite, but the Danelctro Fish n' Chips is just as good but cheaper. The MXR 10-band is also good, if a bit larger. Basically just Google it; you'll find plenty of information out there.
As for effects placement order, there are actually two chains of effects: one between your guitar and your amp, and one in your effects loop. Before the amp, the wah can go either first or second with the overdrive, then into the amp. In the effects loop, put the EQ first, then the flange/phase/chorus, then the noise gate, and lastly the delay, then back into the amp return.
This effects order is crucial, especially if you have spent a lot of money on an amp as nice as a Mesa. Too many guys who don't know any better just stick everything in front of the amp, which makes a $1500 amp sound like $10 ***. What a waste.
As to which overdrive? Let your ears decide completely. They all do the same thing, which is to push your guitar's signal before it hits the amp. Let your own taste preference decide which one sounds best to you.
RE: "what brand of EQ do you recommed with the rectos?". Which brand of amp you're playing through has nothing to do with which EQ you choose. Most pedal graphic EQ's are 7-band, meaning 7 sliders to adjust. The Boss GE-7 is a perennial favorite, but the Danelctro Fish n' Chips is just as good but cheaper. The MXR 10-band is also good, if a bit larger. Basically just Google it; you'll find plenty of information out there.
As for effects placement order, there are actually two chains of effects: one between your guitar and your amp, and one in your effects loop. Before the amp, the wah can go either first or second with the overdrive, then into the amp. In the effects loop, put the EQ first, then the flange/phase/chorus, then the noise gate, and lastly the delay, then back into the amp return.
This effects order is crucial, especially if you have spent a lot of money on an amp as nice as a Mesa. Too many guys who don't know any better just stick everything in front of the amp, which makes a $1500 amp sound like $10 ***. What a waste.
As to which overdrive? Let your ears decide completely. They all do the same thing, which is to push your guitar's signal before it hits the amp. Let your own taste preference decide which one sounds best to you.
jdurso
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maxon ge601 is an awesome eq.... little more coin than the boss but it doesnt color your tone at all and has a true bypass.... well worth the money.... it works awesome in the loop of my roadster ..... you also may want to look at your cab.... i found that my roadster works best wit my basson 2x12.... yes i know its mdf but the cab sounds amazing.... more clarity than any other cab i've heard
now with the eq in the chain, do i change any of my settings on the roadster or just leave it at what ive been playing and adjust the eq settings? i got a really good deal on a mxr 6 band eq, ive read alot of great things about it. anyone used one before?
BMarchant
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what are you using for speakers. The last thing you want to use as a speaker with a Boogie Recto is Vintage 30s. These speakers are made to break up earlier than other speakers. The low end is very paper sounding. Guys around here bash G75s, but they give you are very tight bottom end. Zakk is using EV speakers which are nothing like V30s.
You shouldnt have to add a distortion box on the floor to fix the sound of a $2500.00 amp. I know thats real popular on this forum but if you match your pickups, tubes and speakers correctly, the amp should sound great as it is. The distortion box should be used to add to your sound, not fix it.
You shouldnt have to add a distortion box on the floor to fix the sound of a $2500.00 amp. I know thats real popular on this forum but if you match your pickups, tubes and speakers correctly, the amp should sound great as it is. The distortion box should be used to add to your sound, not fix it.
playdosboogies
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Unfortunately, a big majority of mesa posts have to do with tightening the amps up...it can be done with boosts,od's,eq's etc, but in the end mesas(rec. series) are just loose flubby amps..not much can be done..I was ALMOST happy with my f50 halfstack,(MUCH better than any of my rectifier series amps) but in the end even sold that one...now all i have is a doorstop(rectoverb)..if you are playing heavy music, these days mesa may not be a good choice if you need tight,aggressive tones...there are many better choices these days for HR/HM. I have found mesas to be good gigging amps because they can be versitile, but multi-channel amps are always a compromise tonally.
fbomb
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start hittin the gym ........sorry couldnt resist
Mr.Hetfield
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This is how I tighten up my recto
Ibanze tube scream 080 into a KfK dunlop 10 band eq... set he eq to a little extra bass... cut the mids (250Kh for sure) and boost the treble.
Ibanze tube scream 080 into a KfK dunlop 10 band eq... set he eq to a little extra bass... cut the mids (250Kh for sure) and boost the treble.
BMarchant
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Hi Swivs,
You can tighten your amp up. My amps dont sound like that, anymore. My Stiletto Deuce (stage one) does not have the issues with it that everyone else's stage one has. I even use fluid gain in channel two and it sounds great. My LoneStar sounds great, and my 3 channel Duel Recto has TIGHT bottom too!
Why? I matched my tubes for the amp and for the tone. All tubes have there own sound. A EL34 is not just an EL34, or a 6L6 is not just a 6L6. Different manufactures tubes sound different.
Boogie also has this issue with biasing the amps cold. Boogie then tells you to use there tubes or Groove Tubes #4 to #6. Put tubes in it that actually match the bias of the amp and that all goes away. No more grainy sound, or flabby bottom. GT #7s to 8s puts the tubes in the right bias range. Every Guitar player should read "A tube Primer- Guitar Amplifier Blueprinting" by Myles S. Rose www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com he covers all this in detail. This is stuff that I used back in the 80s when the tubes were better. Its real important now with some of the crap tubes on the market.
Send your amps to Trace at Voodoo to be modded (whos amps sound killer by the way) and he is going to rebias your amp to get rid of the grainy, flabby sound. I bet this has a lot to do with his mods for making the boogies sound better as does the rest of the mod.
I understand the whole, I dont want to void my warranty, but my boogies have been running like this for a year, with no issues at all. One of my friends Has a Trident (stage one) set up the same way and his is fine, and sounding killer as well.
Boogie owners dont have to live with Flabby tone. There is a fix.
Thanks,
Bmarchant
You can tighten your amp up. My amps dont sound like that, anymore. My Stiletto Deuce (stage one) does not have the issues with it that everyone else's stage one has. I even use fluid gain in channel two and it sounds great. My LoneStar sounds great, and my 3 channel Duel Recto has TIGHT bottom too!
Why? I matched my tubes for the amp and for the tone. All tubes have there own sound. A EL34 is not just an EL34, or a 6L6 is not just a 6L6. Different manufactures tubes sound different.
Boogie also has this issue with biasing the amps cold. Boogie then tells you to use there tubes or Groove Tubes #4 to #6. Put tubes in it that actually match the bias of the amp and that all goes away. No more grainy sound, or flabby bottom. GT #7s to 8s puts the tubes in the right bias range. Every Guitar player should read "A tube Primer- Guitar Amplifier Blueprinting" by Myles S. Rose www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com he covers all this in detail. This is stuff that I used back in the 80s when the tubes were better. Its real important now with some of the crap tubes on the market.
Send your amps to Trace at Voodoo to be modded (whos amps sound killer by the way) and he is going to rebias your amp to get rid of the grainy, flabby sound. I bet this has a lot to do with his mods for making the boogies sound better as does the rest of the mod.
I understand the whole, I dont want to void my warranty, but my boogies have been running like this for a year, with no issues at all. One of my friends Has a Trident (stage one) set up the same way and his is fine, and sounding killer as well.
Boogie owners dont have to live with Flabby tone. There is a fix.
Thanks,
Bmarchant
playdosboogies
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Hi Bmarchant...I appreciate your response, but i am not the original poster..I have since sold all (10 OF EM) but one of my mesas..I was just relating out of MY personal experience...rectifier series TO ME are very flubby and sluggish and incredibly inarticulate, especially at higher volumes..It is an inherent problem FOR ME when it comes to playing heavier muzack! My favorite of the boogies was my f50..it was very tight and articulate, but was a one-trick pony..despite the reviews, the clean channel was very mediocre and the reverb sucked...I am no newbie to tube amps, ive had Doug at Dougs tubes, and gone to Eurotubes to specifically fix these problems..And all of them, even Tim at mesa boogie told me it was just part of the signature sound of the amps..very slow response characteristics..If you have the time, play a rec. series amp next to a newer high-gain amp, or even an older one like an old 800 or a 5150/6506. mesas are great working mans (gigging) amps cause they are very versitile, however, multi-channel amps are ALWAYS a compromise tonally...IMHO.
BMarchant
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Hi playdosboogies,
Sorry about that. I fixed it. It was meant for Swivs...... Didnt mean to address to you. Music must have been too loud. Your statement is totally correct though. Stock Mesa's do sound like that.
Was trying to help him choose the correct tubes for his amp to fix the issue. I personally dont agree with Mesa Boogie and there tubes and bias range. Mesa amps are OVERBIASED, meaning they run cold. This is part of the reason that many feel they sound a bit grainy, flabby, and sluggish.
If you check the stock idle with Mesa mid color (range) tubes its running at only 38%. It should be int the 50-70% range. Using a GT #7 or #8 tube in the amp brings this into proper range. Cold running (overbiased) amps sound grainy, lack power, and definition and have flabby bottom.
Sorry about that. I fixed it. It was meant for Swivs...... Didnt mean to address to you. Music must have been too loud. Your statement is totally correct though. Stock Mesa's do sound like that.
Was trying to help him choose the correct tubes for his amp to fix the issue. I personally dont agree with Mesa Boogie and there tubes and bias range. Mesa amps are OVERBIASED, meaning they run cold. This is part of the reason that many feel they sound a bit grainy, flabby, and sluggish.
If you check the stock idle with Mesa mid color (range) tubes its running at only 38%. It should be int the 50-70% range. Using a GT #7 or #8 tube in the amp brings this into proper range. Cold running (overbiased) amps sound grainy, lack power, and definition and have flabby bottom.
plan-x
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I improved my flab/mud with these things. Enough so, that I'm satisfied.
1st, I retubed. Rectifer tube helps alot. Call Bob or Jay at Eurotubes and tell them your story. They'll get you set up.
Got an ext. cab. This gives more muscle to absorb the flabby's. This is the one that does the most. The rest is just icing on the cake.
Similar to the EQ solution, I use a BB stomp. It actually claims to tighten up the bass, and it does, while retaining fullness. You'll be able to obtain more bottom end.
I had little success with OD's. Sure if you thin the bottom with one, but who wants that.
1st, I retubed. Rectifer tube helps alot. Call Bob or Jay at Eurotubes and tell them your story. They'll get you set up.
Got an ext. cab. This gives more muscle to absorb the flabby's. This is the one that does the most. The rest is just icing on the cake.
Similar to the EQ solution, I use a BB stomp. It actually claims to tighten up the bass, and it does, while retaining fullness. You'll be able to obtain more bottom end.
I had little success with OD's. Sure if you thin the bottom with one, but who wants that.
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