How can I make my Triple Recto sound 'bigger'

[jakeleigh]

I'm in a 3 piece rock/metal band, along the lines of Alter Bridge, Metallica, Nickelback, Crossfade etc. Anyway, I'm trying to make my guitar fill out the sound more. Does anyone have any good idea for eq settings or general tips that I should try? I don't really like to use the effects loop as I feel it takes away way too much of the sound quality so I'd like to stay away from delay/reverb.

Guitars I'm using are a Gibson Les Paul standard with the ZW EMG set and an Explorer Pro with the stock Gibson Pickups. My signal chain goes guitar-BossTU2 Tuner- MXR Dyna Comp - Morley Classic Wah - Triple Recto - Marshall 1960A

Thanks for any help!

 

[ShamefulAddiction]

Do you have a song in mind that displays this "big" sound you would like to acheive? Are we talking Nickelback - Animals or more like Ozzy - Hellraiser?

 

[jakeleigh]

Probably talking Nickelback - Animals, Alter Bridge - Down To My Last

 

[Chris McKinley]

Are you talking live or on record? On record is easy....just record a few layers to your guitar like everybody does these days. If you're talking live, it's more of a challenge because it's less about your tone and more about how interesting your playing is to listen to.

The main thing, tone-wise, is to make sure you have plenty of mids, otherwise you'll disappear in the mix. Don't overdo the bass, since your guitar's bass frequencies will then be competing with the bass guitar and the kick drum. If you're talking keeping your guitar's sound absolutely bone dry with no effects whatsoever, you'll need to get familiar with using your guitar's volume control to provide at least a little variation in the volume dynamics.

Mostly, you'll need to learn to play in such a way that your single guitar will hold the listener's attention. Look at examples of guitarists in that situation who have done well. Hendrix, Page, Clapton, Townshend, Van Halen, Gilmour, Blackmore, Lynch, Rhoads, Wylde, etc. All these guys played in such a way that their playing captured and held your attention, whether they were in a 3-man band or not.

 

[jakeleigh]

I'm only talking live. How about compression? How would I use this effectively? Thanks for the advice so far!

 

[coppa]

when you are playing figures out how you can play the parts of two guitarists but just by your self. you might have to figure out how you can add fills and other harmonies in between and in the middle of rythm parts. basically try to cover as much ground as possible all by your self. its not easy.

a tripple recto already sounds big and already takes up a ton of frequencies in any mix. so there isnt much to change there.

i think you would want less compression and more dynamic range instead or only use it as an effect not all the time.

 

[siggy14]

First thing ditch the 1960 cab and buy a used mesa cab on ebay or craigslist. The 1960's use 75's which are very mid scooped which will make your sound, sound hollow.

What EQ Settings are you using? give us a little idea.

 

[prsman88]

How about running 2 4x12 Cabs (one on each side of the stage) keep the 1960a and get a mesa 4x12. (mixes the 2 types of speakers; one is early breakup, the other is later breakup) Mic each cab so its like you're running 2 guitars (just playing the same thing) Def will be bigger and thicker.

I saw the band Gwen Stacy play and he did that with a rectifier and a gibson les paul studio. Not effects minus a noise suppressor and tuner and it sounded HUGE!

Good luck!

 

[Setzer]

Basically ditch the compressor.

I have seen a lot of live bands over a lot of years and guitarists who use compression ALWAYS get lost in the mix.

This is not just my opinion,lots of pro's in differing genres will tell you the same thing,compression will take away your dynamics and squash your sound so that you blend into the band which I am guessing is what you DONT want!

Country guitarists are well known for their use of compression but they use it for a certain effect and dont use it all the time.Talk to a Country player and they will tell you compression will make you disappear in the live mix.

If you are of a decent standard of guitar playing you dont need a compressor anyways.

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

+1 Mids are your friend, especially in a one-guitar band where you can (have to, actually) take a big piece if the sonic pie.

IMO, lose the compressor (or only use it for cleans), and lose the G12T-75's or mix them with another speaker type like V-30's.

Post your settings and surely we can get you close. At any rate, not too much bass, get the mids up there, and not too much gain either.

 

[Chris McKinley]

jakeleigh,

The reason people have discouraged you from using too much gain is the same reason they dissuade you from using a compressor. Too much gain causes not only significant compression of the sound (even without a compressor), it destroys articulation which is necessary to achieve a decent crunch sound. Instead of sounding edgy when you pick light and downright crunchy when you pick hard, everything sounds like full-on distortion all the time. Add a compressor to that and everything sounds like a quiet, mushy whitewash of background sound.

As a separate point, are you planning to play any solos or cover songs? If so, it will be more difficult for you to do it if you insist on no effects whatsoever. Not impossible, by any means, but harder. I've played a regular gig the last year or so with no effects other than an overdrive, a good portion of which was country and blues as well as rock, and I had to constantly use my volume and tone knobs, pickup switch, channel switch and amp gain knob to produce differences in guitar tone. It can be done, but you've got much narrower parameters in which to work that way than if you include even a single effect such as delay or reverb. One thing it will do for you is improve your phrasing and note selection, since that's just about all you've really got to work with to make each song sound different.

 

[jdurso]

great post chris.... listen to this guy he knows his stuff

also noglass hit the spots with the mids. i was so guilty of doing the super scoop in the past that when i listen to old recordings i cringe. the right amount of mids will give you exactly what your searching for.

 

[vitor gracie]

I say its your marshall cab...I never got anything good out of one of those... a mesa or even an orange 4X12 will sound better....in my opinion

and FOR SURE listen to anyone who tells you mids are GOOD!

Dont SCOOP! SCOOP=POOP!

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

Something else I didn't catch (nobody else either)...put your wah pedal first in the chain. Most wahs don't like a buffered signal (the TU-2 has a buffer, not sure about the comp) at their input. While this wont do anything to make your tone "bigger", it will certainly make your wah pedal work better.

The Marshall cab...while they are not built as well as Mesa (or Orange, VHT, Bogner, etc), you can make it work. If it's not in the budget to replace it, try swapping two of the stock speakers with V-30s. Another cheap-and-easy mod... replace the back panel (if your cab is JCM900 series or newer the back is made of MDF) with 3/4" birch plywood. This will give you more of that 4x12 "knock" you can feel in your chest, as well as making the cab physically much stronger.

Try these settings: Ch3 Modern, Bold, Diodes, Bass 12:00, Mid 11:30, Treb 11:45, Pres 10:00, Gain 1:30, Master 10:00+, FX Send 1:30, FX Mix to taste (if nothing in loop turn it all the way down), Output 11:00+, Solo to taste. You may need to add more mids as the G12T-75s are not as mid-strong a speaker as say a V-30. Use the Explorer with the stock p'ups. While this may not be exactly the tone you are looking for, it should be a good place to start. If it's not at least "big" (Huge actually), there may be a problem with your equipment somewhere. How old are the tubes?

 

[JW123]

Jake I noticed you use a POD X3.

I have a POD PRO. It has a direct line thru it that outputs an unaffected signal that I take to my Mesa. But I program a JCM 800 in the POD. I put these signals in different channels it creates a doubling effect live. This is how I thicken up my signal live. If the X3 will allow you to do this you might do the same thing.

Just remember one really good guitar tone is better than 10 crappy tones.

 

[Griz]

Just remember one really good guitar tone is better than 10 crappy tones.

I'm tellin' ya.

 

[jakeleigh]

Jake I noticed you use a POD X3.

I have a POD PRO. It has a direct line thru it that outputs an unaffected signal that I take to my Mesa. But I program a JCM 800 in the POD. I put these signals in different channels it creates a doubling effect live. This is how I thicken up my signal live. If the X3 will allow you to do this you might do the same thing.

Just remember one really good guitar tone is better than 10 crappy tones.

Thanks for all the advice so far, I'm getting much closer to the sound I'm looking for. I had a pretty big show on Fri and I sounded alot better (and bigger!)

I took the compressor and wah out of my signal chain, so guitar - TU-2 - amp into the 1960.

I stay in the Red Channel through most of the set for my rhythm playing. My settings were, Bold, Silicon, 6L6s, loop off, Modern, Pres 12 o'clock, Master 9, Gain 2, Bass 1, Mids 11, Treble 1

I'm definatly thinking about changing two speakers for Vintage 30s, will this give a noticable improvement?

Thanks fgor the tip JW123, I'm pretty sure the x3 doesn't let me send the dry signal but I am considering running the Triple Recto in stereo with either the JCM800 or my JMP-1 Rack set up... Most probably the rack set up as that would allow me to get some great lead sounds with decent delays from the GSP1101

 

[Shadetree_01]

I know it's not for everyone but I love to add a Boss octave pedal into the mix when jamming on single note rhythm lines and two note bar chords. It adds a bunch of girth between vocal lines and can be a great dynamic shift during breakdowns and stuff. The recto was definitely voiced for Vintage 30's though. Mids are your friend when setting your eq for live situations!!! You can suck out the mids all you want while recording but you'll get lost in the mix with too much gain and scooped mids. Just my .02

 

[secretsoundz]

Homebrew Electronics Powerscreamer w/ Fatboost....no low end missing here!

 

[BMarchant]

If you want to make it sound HUGE....... Add a Stiletto with the Recto. Run the two amps at the same time. The two amps were designed to compliment each other in a band sitsuation. This is how I'm running mine in a three piece. Run the Stiletto to sound like AC/DC and then add your Recto with the gain and bottom end.

I've posted photos of this before, but here you go.

my pedalboard that is running the amps.