Hotter tubes in Stiletto Ace ?

[alie123]

Hello !

I have a problem with my Stiletto Ace combo. It souds very harsh. I have it now about 1,5 year, and I have tried several things. I've experimented with serveral different (darker and lower gain) preamp tubes, this helped me a bit, but I think it's very strange that channel 2 is still so exceptional bright.. Different guitars too (no crappy guitars.. so that's also not the problem..) EQ pedals, Boosters, .. but it's just not it..

I have read several posts of people who also have this problem. My 1st channel is great, but channel 2 is very trebly. In this channel I shut down the treble and precsence almost completely, and I also have to keep the mid's very low to get a decent sound out of it..

Many people talk about the SED =C= EL34 tubes. I also installed a pair of them, but I noticed very little differences. The tubes I installed are maybe a little 'cold'. (IP: 30 / GM 44) ?

I found this on the site of Eurotubes:
Mesa amps are fixed bias and generally they are very cold. You can actually get the bias up where it should be with warmer grade's of tubes

I'm not a tube expert, so I dont understand this. My amp is cool biassed, then I have to buy 'cooler' tubes to come closer to what the amp is biassed? That's what I tought. Or, if I buy hotter tubes, what Eurotubes say, will this still help me to 'warm up' my amp so I can actually shape my tone, and still isn't that harsh anymore?

Groove tubes sells tubes with performance numbers, which means a tube is cooler or hotter. The 'grey' labeled Mesa tubes I have should match the Groove Tubes performance number of 5, is what I found. So, should I buy tubes with a higher or lower performance number ?

I think the GT-EL34-M is a great tube. Or the GT-EL34-LS is also great. Maybe JJ tubes, but how hot do I have to take them? I've read a post (somewhere) from someone who installed a pair of GT-EL34-M tubes, and this helped him a lot. I like to know which performance grade this was. (It is labeled on the tube itself)

I hope you guys can help me, cause I don't know what to do anymore..

Thanks!

 

[Jmango]

Can you give anymore insight to your rig? i.e. Combo or head/cab? What kind of speakers are you using?

The Stiletto Ace can be bright, but it can be tamed quite well.

If you have had it a year and a half and have not been able to tame it, perhaps it is not the tone or amp you are looking for?

 

[dmcguitar]

The whole tube biasing thing is a big debate. If you ask randall smiith (mesa's creator) he will say its ok, because he found the "sweet spot" where the tubes operate and produce a good sound. So what they do is fix the amount of power to the lower range of a tubes opearting specs. So if a tube (your power tube an EL34) can take 30-50, they will hard wire the amp to run at say 33. They then test and match all the tubes they buy and make sure they operate at their chosen specs. This should consistently give you the original tone of the amp as was designed.

If you wanted to put other tubes in the amp (non mesa stamped.. they don't condone it ) you would then have to check the bias, because those tubes may need a range of 40-60 or 20-35.. and you would be giving them too much or to little to work properly. To do this the amp needs to be modded to allow for change that number.

Randall smith says biasing is a way for tube saleman and amp techs to make money.. they can charge you 100 bucks to bias your amp evertime you change tubes they get free money. Bob from eurotubes (and other guys who like tweaking the bias) will tell you Randall uses that as a marketing ploy but it doesnt let the tube operate at its optimal point, which causes the amp to not sound "as good"

Tone is subjective though. You certainly could get the amp modded to allow the bias to be set, and then put other tubes and make sure they are at the right voltage. If you get it modded, I would make sure that you have external bias test points and a dial be put on the back of the amp.. so you can get a voltmeter and learn to do it yourself.

 

[fishyfishfish]

You might want to try a JJ ecc83/12ax7 standard grade pre amp tube in V1. JJ pre amp tubes are on the dark side to say the least, and this might cut the high end down a notch. As far as getting hot/cold tubes, I don't think that would help you quest in de-brightening the amp. I do like the JJ EL34L in my Recto as far as making the tone more "Vocal" sounding, but that's just me.
For even Mellower sounding Pre tube try the JJ 12ax7 Gold series. That one really smoothed out my friends amp (Super harsh/brittle high end). Good Luck!

 

[paytojt]

Tung Sol preamp tubes warmed up my Ace quite well.

 

[Jak0lantern01]

Stay away from the JJ pre-amp tubes! If they affect a Stiletto in any similar fashion to the way they affected my Recto, that brash sound will go straight to harsh. Try a Doug's Tubes pre-amp set. I used these in my Recto and was very happy, I'm also thinking of installing a set in my Stiletto. I have the Deuce, which can be harsh if not dialed in correctly. I figure a set from Doug's will warm things up nicely.

 

[alie123]

Thanks everybody for the replies.. i really appreciate your replies ! This was my first post on the board..

I understand the whole bias story. I don’t know what to do with it. Maybe there are no major improvements posseble with changing the powertubes.. I can buy a few extra preamp tubes eventually..
Fishyfishfish: I did’nt know gold preamp tubes can also improve your tone. I thought it was just for better contacts / reliability ? (sorry I’m not an amp tech, just a player J ) I can try that. I still had a few other preamp tubes on order, which will be delivered tomorrow I guess (G.E 5751 preamp tube for the v1 or v2 positon..) The Tung-sol is a great tube, very good in the V1 position, but I hoped it tames more brightness.. (again: I'm not a tech ..)

About my rig: I have the 1x12 combo version with the stock celistion V30 speaker. I'm using (mostly) my strat with the standard pickups in it. (in a HSS configuration) Maybe I can upgrade them with a better pickup set? I also have a Ibanez Prestige with 2 humbuckers, but I'm more a strat player.. I’ve also tried a good custom made Les Paul and Telecaster trough the amp. (not mine, but borrowed for testing)

I use quality cables, and a BB preamp in front of the amp. In de FX loop I sometimes use the Holy grail plus reverb pedal, and the H2O delay/chorus just for the delay.. That’s it.

Maybe is not my kind of amp indeed.. ?

But isn’t it strange that all of the ‘presets’ in the manual are with the treble set very much higher then I can set them. When I set treble,mid, or prescence to about 9 / 10 / 11 o clock, it sounds really horrible!

Thanks again!

 

[Herbvis]

Have you tried the duct tape solution? Just put a square of it on the grill cloth just over the center of the speaker cone. It will block some of the higher/harsher frequencies. And it is a very cheap.

 

[JOEY B.]

The stock MESA tubes idle close to 70% MPD when you run the ACE in Full Power and Diode modes ("Blue" STR-447's). The trick to taming the highs is in the preamp tubes and speaker/duct tape/beam blocker.

 

[inkwachemis]

change out that v30!

 

[Silverwulf]

I used all JJ's in my Stiletto ACE and loved it. Bought them from Eurotubes too if I recall correctly. High gain front end and a pair of JJ EL34L's. Definitely helps take the edge off the brightness. Running through my older Mesa Recto 4X12 w/V30's (Traditional, Straight), sounded great. Seemed to have a little more clean headroom too.

 

[Jak0lantern01]

I'm suprised that the Stiletto sounded good with the JJ's. Perhaps it the way the amps are voiced. The JJ's in my Recto made it really harsh, I had to get them out. I gave them a second try some months later in case I was wrong about them, same deal. I know the Stiletto's can easily be harsh if not dialed in correctly, it seemed like a given that those tubes might create an undesirable sound. Then again, tone is subjective.

 

[alie123]

Thanks!

I've tried some extra preamp tubes, but minor differeces. I have an eq pedal on order now. (MAXON ge-601) that i'll place in the FX loop. Hopefully that will work some. Duct tape / beam blockers is a good idea maybe..

 

[MusicManJP6]

beam blocker definitely helps tame the V30/Ace highs... I have one installed. Tried a C90 and liked it but it took too much aggressiveness out...

 

[alie123]

If beamblockers really help: I's a cheap solotion. :lol:

But, how do you install them? Is it easy? If possible, I don't want to drill holes or put any screws in my combo.. (I dont even know what to 'unscrew' to get there.. ) Can you tell me ?

Ps: I also have tried the 12ax7c's. I've had one in V1, and a TAD 12ax7c in v2. (these are the same tubes) It;s a nice tube anyway.. I liked them in my ACE..

 

[MusicManJP6]

I'm an advocate for the fizzy lifters. You can find them on eBay. You still have to remove the speaker(s) to install it, but it does help. It doesn't install under the speaker baffle is what I like - it attaches to the inside of the grill cloth. It's really just as simple as unscrewing all the screws holding the back of the combo on and then removing the 4 screws holding the speaker down. It's best to lay the combo face down when doing all this. Just be careful that you don't gouge the speaker on one of the studs that hold the speaker when removing/reinstalling!

 

[Old BF Shred]

I use JJECC83/12ax7 in v2 position. I find it helps quite a bit, though I never run Presence over 9 o'clock on my Ace. 8)

 

[MusicManJP6]

I never run Presence over 9 o'clock on my Ace. 8)

me neither...