Help killing fizz

[Blaklynx]

You are not making a fundamental difference to the signal pre-input. You need to make the difference before the signal gets to the amp's input, hence boosting and EQing between guitar and amp. An EQ in the loop will only reduce in volume the frequencies you cut, in your case the treble frequencies, that's why it sounds like a blanket over the speaker. If you up the treble on the amp (which also adds gain somewhat) and then push the gain control up (or leave it as is) you still get a fizz type distortion coming through. That's the nature of the treble control. The manual states (something or rather); pushing the treble past 2oclock get's that 'classic' recto tone.

FYI: The amps tone controls are pre-gain.

Push the front end with an OD pedal (I prefer to use an EQ after the OD as well) as this will change the signal shape. Adjust amp's tone controls. You should be able to smooth out the tone. Make up any shortcomings in tone with an EQ in the loop, as explained on page one (see my links).

Depending how much treble is filtered out before the input, how much it's boosted and how smooth the resulting tone is, if it sounds a little flat and with a 'blanket over speaker' tone, place an EQ in the loop and try boosting the 8~12HZ slider to add some sparkle and presence/topend. Make other adjustments as required.

Try this: reduce all tone controls to 8.30~9 oclock, even zero, and push the gain on the amp. Up the volume on the amp. Is the tone smoother? It should be (within reason)but may sound a little choked or muffled or maybe even wierd. You may affect the signal to such an extent that the amp starts to behave a little odd. Remember what I said earlier? Tone controls are pre-gain. Up the controls slightly. Introduce an OD pedal. Try the EQ out front and use it as a boost only. Try it as a treble booster only. Adjust the amps tone controls slightly. Listen to the amp and feel what the amp is doing at every change.

The more you understand the behaviour of the amp and how pre-gain and post gain tone controls affect your amp (pre and post EQ pedals plus amp's tone controls), plus how the gain control plays it's part, eventually a light will switch on in your head and it should all fall into place. All this is the hard part to understand. You practically have to visualise what's happening with the guitar signal from start to end.

Good luck. I'm not sure what more to say.

 

[joeydego]

Question, do you play with a band? I already know if I bring home my rec and even play loud for my 1 bedroom apartment its gonna sound fizzy. That triple rec sound needs a room and volume to happen, but when it does its magic. I'm configuring a gsystem in my living room and it was thin, fizzy city last night. Hard to believe its the same amp that blows the ceiling off of bars week in week out. A rec needs volume and space to do what it does. Another thing is I don't stand on top of my amp while playing. I prefer it to be facing elsewhere. That works best for me, personally. I need to hear it, but not before it bounces around the room a little.

 

[discordance_axis]

The OP sounds like the exact place i was in a year or two ago. I'd hear all these amazing recto tones from albums and youtube and when it came down to getting my own fired up i had this thin, fizzy, crappy arse sound that i hated, even cranked. I remember i bought a RKII, after months of research and was soo disappointed when I couldnt get it to sound like the tones I was hearing everywhere else. I tried different tubes, cabs and settings until I exchanged it back for a Mark V head and PRS Torero. (both of which matched up to the price of the RK). The thing that happened next was the company shipped the MarkV and guitar MONTHS before they picked up the RK so I had ages to experiment with both amps and both guitars. It turned out that the grim fizz was mainly to do with the pickup in my first guitar (duncan JB). The RK sounded much better to me with my PRS, It was creamier and more articulate and the thin fizz disappeared. But overall, after firing up the Mark V I much preferred it. As soon as i plugged in I knew that I had found my amp. Finally i've got the tone i've heard in my head for years and i can concentrate on playing my guitar. All in all it turned out good for me, just as i was about to give up looking too.

I suppose my advice would be to experiment with different guitars, since pickups make a MASSIVE difference in tone and feel, much more than tubes or cabinets did, atleast to me.

Good Luck!

 

[sk8erps]

What was the original guitar with the JB?

 

[discordance_axis]

What was the original guitar with the JB?

It was a Jackson DK2. Strange though because i'd gotten it into my head that i really liked it's sound when I first got it. :|

 

[b0nkersx1]

MORE VOLUME

 

[krash]

I get great Metallica Black Album tones in vintage or modern with the gain at about 1:00 / 1:30.

Presence at 9:00 / 9:30
Bass at 10:00 / 10:30
Mids at 10:00 / 10:30
Treble at 12:00

ESP guitar with EMG 81's.

 

[Geiri]

Hi all, I've got a solo 50 recto head, series two. I want a nice heavy guitar sound, Metallica meets me, but, no matter what I'd I can't get rid of the top end fizz. Turn the treble down, left with bass same with presence. Turn them up to get treble but just get fizz. Tonight I really want to throw it out the window n drive over it! Not impressed with it at all, any help would be appreciated! Cheers..... Tom

Use vintage max the output and just a tiny preamp volume.

 

[Addictedtokaos]

WOW! Thank you sir! I too had the same issue. I been complaining that my Rectoverb combo was thin and was thinking I was needing a better cab or better amp.

I thought I would try what Geiri said and being a basement player I had to complete turn my masters down at first. And as I raised the output to 12:00 and higher I started to hear what my Mesa was missing. It wasnt the flabby low end you get when playing with the bass control. No, it was the tight low end UMPH that has been missing. You can just hear it come to live without even any volume at the master!

I cant believe it was something so simple. This may not work for someone wanting to play at low volume who likes tube break up, but I can now get a really good tight tone at low volume thanks to this and will no longer be on the market for that "better" mesa!

Thanks again Geiri!

 

[Anonymous]

The Single Rectifier is a fantastic amp and IMO, if you can't get a great sound out of it, you're doing something wrong. There's one thing that gets overlooked all the time that's actually VERY important: voltage.

The Rectifier series converts 120VAC at your wall into about 450VDC in the power supply. 450 is about four times 120, so a 1V change at the wall will give you roughly a 4V change inside the amp. I've seen wall voltages vary from 112VAC to 124VAC, meaning one day my amp was running at 420VDC and another at 465VDC. You're going to hear that! Which is why it's important to at the very least, monitor and be aware of the wall voltage, and at best, buy a variac and control the voltage to your preference.

This is the reason why your amp might sound great one day and the next, be missing something you just can't seem to figure out. And if you live in an area where voltage is typically high (like me), then this can cause a certain harshness to the top end that you don't get with lower voltage (at least that's how I hear it).

Of course, that's just one variable of infinitely many! :lol:

 

[Geiri]

WOW! Thank you sir! I too had the same issue. I been complaining that my Rectoverb combo was thin and was thinking I was needing a better cab or better amp.

I thought I would try what Geiri said and being a basement player I had to complete turn my masters down at first. And as I raised the output to 12:00 and higher I started to hear what my Mesa was missing. It wasnt the flabby low end you get when playing with the bass control. No, it was the tight low end UMPH that has been missing. You can just hear it come to live without even any volume at the master!

I cant believe it was something so simple. This may not work for someone wanting to play at low volume who likes tube break up, but I can now get a really good tight tone at low volume thanks to this and will no longer be on the market for that "better" mesa!

Thanks again Geiri!

You are very welcome dear sir.

And yes this is tube breakup at it's finest. When we talk about tube breakup I think we are referring to the poweramp tubes. And by pushing the output you are doing exactly that. Channel masters are the preamp tubes.
Now if you want to go all out evil you apply this method in the modern setting and stick a clean boost in front. Gain off tone to taste and volume/level 100%. Use these settings infront of the amp in modern mode and you will get a pure evil tone with all the oooomph and tightness only matched by the mark 4.

 

[Third Age Amps]

Unless the Solo 50 is a completely different design from all the other Rectos, the tone controls are AFTER the preamp gain stages. And placing an EQ before the input just shapes the tone coming straight from your guitar. Putting it in the FX loop might work better for what you're describing.

If it follows the other designs, the signal flow for the Lead channel is:

Guitar Input -> V1A -> Gain Control ->V1B -> V2B -> V3A -> V3B -> Tone Controls -> V4A (FX Send) -> V4B (FX Return) -> V5A/B (Phase Inverter)

You get almost no gain introduced after the tone controls unless you use the Loop Active Master as your Master Volume. Then you can use the Channel Master as an additional "Gain" control. It doesn't function exactly like the typical Gain control, but you can get some interesting tones by doing it.

 

[Addictedtokaos]

You are very welcome dear sir.

And yes this is tube breakup at it's finest. When we talk about tube breakup I think we are referring to the poweramp tubes. And by pushing the output you are doing exactly that. Channel masters are the preamp tubes.
Now if you want to go all out evil you apply this method in the modern setting and stick a clean boost in front. Gain off tone to taste and volume/level 100%. Use these settings infront of the amp in modern mode and you will get a pure evil tone with all the oooomph and tightness only matched by the mark 4.

Im still new to this tube amp crap. I always thought that Master controlled the powertube distortion/breakup and Output only increased the overall volume with no effect on tone.

 

[user 19640]

Regarding the fizz; Does somebody know how those high frequenzies work in correlation with volume ?
My guess is that if the speaker is pushed, the overall frequenzy response thightens and narrows: i.e because of the physics of the speaker element, the middle gets more "working space" and the very low bass and high treble have to "give way" ?
Someone here who knows a bit more accurate about this ? This is just my reasoning about this. I have a kind of trouble with fizz too :?

 

[b0nkersx1]

Regarding the fizz; Does somebody know how those high frequenzies work in correlation with volume ?
My guess is that if the speaker is pushed, the overall frequenzy response thightens and narrows: i.e because of the physics of the speaker element, the middle gets more "working space" and the very low bass and high treble have to "give way" ?
Someone here who knows a bit more accurate about this ? This is just my reasoning about this. I have a kind of trouble with fizz too :?

its a combination of things

your ears hear less highs at high volumes
speakers / power section work harder and fill out the sound
probably other stuff too!

 

[Geiri]

Regarding the fizz; Does somebody know how those high frequenzies work in correlation with volume ?
My guess is that if the speaker is pushed, the overall frequenzy response thightens and narrows: i.e because of the physics of the speaker element, the middle gets more "working space" and the very low bass and high treble have to "give way" ?
Someone here who knows a bit more accurate about this ? This is just my reasoning about this. I have a kind of trouble with fizz too :?

its a combination of things

your ears hear less highs at high volumes
speakers / power section work harder and fill out the sound
probably other stuff too!

It's very simple. when I play at a very low volume I have my presence off. When I'm at band volume it's back on, and believe you me when I tell you, at loud volumes there exists no fizz.

 

[VanWreckto]

High output volume is key. I mentioned this on the first page.

 

[ltd2recto]

I run a JJ ECC83 in v1 for the very reason of killing some fizz. Don't load your whole pre-amp with them though as it will sound like a blanket placed over your cabinet.

 

[JW123]

I have a Triple and dont know how it relates to the Single, but I have learned on my modern channel to set my presence around 9 oclock, and I run my treble at about 12-1 oclock, it seems to take all that fizziness out to me.

Most amps seem to have a sweet spot on the recs to me are best around 12 oclock on most controls except for the mids which seem to work best in the 8-10 oclock range.

For me the fizz exist in the presence setting, start off with it completely off, with your treble around 12 oclock then slowly ease the presence control up til you hear fizz, then back it off some, and then ease up on your treble just a little bit til you find a good setting.

 

[Anonymous]

I have a Triple and dont know how it relates to the Single, but I have learned on my modern channel to set my presence around 9 oclock, and I run my treble at about 12-1 oclock, it seems to take all that fizziness out to me.

Most amps seem to have a sweet spot on the recs to me are best around 12 oclock on most controls except for the mids which seem to work best in the 8-10 oclock range.

For me the fizz exist in the presence setting, start off with it completely off, with your treble around 12 oclock then slowly ease the presence control up til you hear fizz, then back it off some, and then ease up on your treble just a little bit til you find a good setting.

I'd agree with that. The presence knob on Rectifiers - except for earlier 90s models - is pretty intense.