Hello Everyone. Im about ready to take the mesa plunge...

[Jay22]

Alright. Im jamming out with a new band, its a new time, and that is a time for a new tone.

I'll be honest, I used to HATE mesa rectifiers. For some reason I was compelled to try them again at a local GC and they had a used triple rec half stack there. I plugged in and it sounded sweet! It didnt have that super high pitched frequency hiss that I always hated about them. I was ready to take it home and it stopped working. Later we find out that the cabinet has some issues and because of that, the head now has issues as well. Im glad I didnt get it.

I then tried a dual rectifier and another triple rectifier fresh out of the box and I just could not get that tone that the used head had. All of the tubes were the same but for some reason it just sounded bad to me.

The new heads have the same Mesa in your face distortion for sure, but theres this annoying high *** frequency thats just right out in front. I played with it for hours and I got nowhere. Everything was sweet except that high "hiss" as I call it on the second and third channels. Is there something Im missing here? I know that whenever I tried marshall heads it was the same thing. The only marshall I ever owned was a jmp-1 preamp because I could tweak that sound out of it.

With the Triple Rectifier I cant seem to get it to disappear. I tried everything I could think of. Is there a way to easily get rid of that annoying uber high white noise over top of the distortion on these heads?

Every recording I hear of a rectifier, be it single, double, or triple, the sound Im describing is either absent or hardly audible, so I know its possible to dial it out somehow.


Thanks for any help!

-Jay

 

[ytse_jam]

were you playing the two amps with the same guitar? Same cable?

 

[zappaslaughter]

Generally, MESA amplifiers require a ton of tweaking to find the "sweet spots". Took me over 8 months to get my "voice of god" tone from my LSC on both channels.

Just somthing to remember. I would dork around with the amp a few hours before buying, or take advantage of GC 30 guarantee and take one home and tweak it for a bit.

 

[Jay22]

ytse_jam; Yep. I took my guitar in since I have different pickups than the stocks at GC and used the same cable and all.

Zappaslaughter;
Im about to do that and just fuss with it as much as I can. Once I hit those spots man Im going to etch the notches into the head itself. Haahah!

One thing that may have been a huge factor as well is that we were in different rooms. And for the most part, it was the Dual rectifier that was just insanely bright.

All of the triple recs were alright, but I still could not get that same sweet tone. I went home and read the manual for the triple and dual recs which helped me understand it a bit more, but all I know is that those amps are quite capable of making the sweetest distortion tones I've ever really heard. I just dont know how to get them back. Any other type of amp, if your close with the settings its alright. But these mesas, man if those knobs are moved just a teeny little bit your tone is different. Its wild.

However, does anyone know what im talking about with that just super friggin bright sound? Its like a buzzsaw or something.

 

[jdurso]

ytse_jam; Yep. I took my guitar in since I have different pickups than the stocks at GC and used the same cable and all.

Zappaslaughter;
Im about to do that and just fuss with it as much as I can. Once I hit those spots man Im going to etch the notches into the head itself. Haahah!

One thing that may have been a huge factor as well is that we were in different rooms. And for the most part, it was the Dual rectifier that was just insanely bright.

All of the triple recs were alright, but I still could not get that same sweet tone. I went home and read the manual for the triple and dual recs which helped me understand it a bit more, but all I know is that those amps are quite capable of making the sweetest distortion tones I've ever really heard. I just dont know how to get them back. Any other type of amp, if your close with the settings its alright. But these mesas, man if those knobs are moved just a teeny little bit your tone is different. Its wild.

However, does anyone know what im talking about with that just super friggin bright sound? Its like a buzzsaw or something.

the controls of mesa's in general are very sensitive.... one question i have is was it the same cab both times? if not was the cab you were playing through new? i found that brand spanking new v30s (which is most likely what the cab had in them) have a very harsh frequency in the high mids when they're knew... as you break the speakers in that harshness fades to a more smooth midhigh range..... also the tubes in that used triple might have been different ..... ive seen quite a few used mesa's in GCs with different tubes than what comes stock (most times el34s or 6v6s) which is because when those amps come in on a trade or whatever the circumstance most GC employees dont check for that.... i dont know how likely that case is in this instance but it could be..... also, because i didnt see it in your original post was the used amp a two channel or 3 channel? when mesa went to the 3 channel config in the duals and triples, that characteristic became prominent.... ive found in my roadster that "hiss" is more prominent in a v30 loaded cab.... with my basson, i really never had that highmids hiss.... that was until i started using my diezel which happens to have v30s..... its not as prominent as with a mesa cab but definitely there.... if you go back and try the triple again try it with different cabs.... also i would get the triple recs manual off the website and write down the settings they have in the back of the manual... every model recto's controls are a little different and i find the settings a very very good starting point..... half the time ive found those buzzsaw type frequencies just come from not completely understanding how all the controls work with one another..... lastly none of the above work out have the sales guy grab you an eq and throw that in the loop.... i've found they work wonders with getting rid of that harshness..... i believe some have said its in the 200 and 400 frequency bands.... even taking those bands down a little go a long way

 

[Jay22]

Thanks a lot. You guys are awesome.

Ok, heres a bit more detail...


All the mesa heads where three channel heads.

When I first walked in, I sat down with a used mesa triple rec 3 channel and a used mesa cab. Everything was friggin sweet until the sound just died. We figured it was the head, but it was the cab. Long story that Ill delve into a couple of paragraphs down...

The next step was a different head on the same cab. It sounded similar but not quite, and by that time the cab was just offering up all sorts of weird stuff so I couldnt play anyway.

The next step was a triple rec 3 chan new, on top of the large mesa cab. (The used one was a normal size cab.)

It didnt sound right. So then we tried it with a regular cab. It still didnt sound just right. Close, but too much of that buzzsaw stuff happening.

Then we went out in the big showroom and hooked up a dual rec with a mesa cab, both new. The buzzsaw frequency was just way to much. When I started hitting power chords it was just overpowering. Any type of actual chord work left a lot to be desired. All I could hear was that high pitched buzzsaw hiss.

I tried the used head again with a new cab, and it was sounding pretty sweet, but then is started to make this really loud click sound so we just stopped.

I was, and still am VERY dissapointed because that first head I played on sounded sick! I was in heaven and knew right then and there that I was buying that rig, until it died.....

What makes this even worse is that they also had two used marshall heads for pretty good prices.

They had a jcm 2000 dsl and a jcm 2000 TSL, both used. And guess what?
Neither of them worked. WTF.....


I will try it with some different cabs, Im pretty sure they still have a used marshall 1960bv with V30's, so that should clear up the new speaker hiss thing....

 

[jdurso]

weird.... the hiss is a frequency right not just the amp being noisy right? the 3 channel rectos have the inherent highmid spike that creates that buzzsaw type tone..... but i've definitely heard 3 channels that sound tight and smooth without that buzzsaw trait... when you go back definitely try different cabs.... try that marshall and see if that have a peavey 6505 cab because they sound pretty good with a recto.... also another cab i highly recommend if they have it there is the egnater cabs that were built for the tourmaster.... awesome cab especially for the price

 

[jdurso]

Thanks a lot. You guys are awesome.

Ok, heres a bit more detail...


All the mesa heads where three channel heads.

When I first walked in, I sat down with a used mesa triple rec 3 channel and a used mesa cab. Everything was friggin sweet until the sound just died. We figured it was the head, but it was the cab. Long story that Ill delve into a couple of paragraphs down...

The next step was a different head on the same cab. It sounded similar but not quite, and by that time the cab was just offering up all sorts of weird stuff so I couldnt play anyway.

The next step was a triple rec 3 chan new, on top of the large mesa cab. (The used one was a normal size cab.)

It didnt sound right. So then we tried it with a regular cab. It still didnt sound just right. Close, but too much of that buzzsaw stuff happening.

Then we went out in the big showroom and hooked up a dual rec with a mesa cab, both new. The buzzsaw frequency was just way to much. When I started hitting power chords it was just overpowering. Any type of actual chord work left a lot to be desired. All I could hear was that high pitched buzzsaw hiss.

I tried the used head again with a new cab, and it was sounding pretty sweet, but then is started to make this really loud click sound so we just stopped.

I was, and still am VERY dissapointed because that first head I played on sounded sick! I was in heaven and knew right then and there that I was buying that rig, until it died.....

What makes this even worse is that they also had two used marshall heads for pretty good prices.

They had a jcm 2000 dsl and a jcm 2000 TSL, both used. And guess what?
Neither of them worked. WTF.....


I will try it with some different cabs, Im pretty sure they still have a used marshall 1960bv with V30's, so that should clear up the new speaker hiss thing....

BTW where are you located.... i know a bunch of GCs on the west coast that always have broken gear.... namely the sacramento, brea, bakersfield and cerritos GCs.... sacramento might be the worst out of the bunch.... i once saw a dc-10 in there that was plugged in and when i turned it on nothing lit up.... then the sales guy told me that the light was broken... not a huge deal but when i started playing the dirty channel had kept cutting out like the cable was bad... i aksed for a new cable and i got the same thing.... and they were asking nearly 1000 for it because it was "vintage" ... when the guy told me that i had to laguh in his face and walk away..... which brought me to a "new" rectoverb who's light was pushed in and standby switch was bent to a 90 degree angle.... they wanted 1300 for that amp.... the only amp i found was playible in that store was the ones they kept in the nice room off to the side... specifically a vht cl50 kept me entertained for a few hrs which also has a story which may or may not be appropriate for this board... lets just say the local talent they employ in that store are great at customer service :wink: ... ok now ive said too much... ill shut up now

 

[Jay22]

Funny you should say the tourmaster cab, thats the cab I used to figure out that the used mesa cab was shot. I noticed a difference, however the sound got a bit thinner.

They do have 6505 cabs up there so Ill give that a shot.

Yes, its the frequency. Its not like amp hiss when Im not playing. Its in the distortion. Its as if the amp has super steroid brightness on or something.

I NEVER hear it in recordings of mesas. But this thing was just screaming. If I stood next to the amp it wasnt so bad. But when I was sitting in front of it, with my head well above the cabinet and amp head, I could hear it. It was just nuts. The best way to describe it is like some super treble bright sound. Which made me automatically adjust the treble and presence knobs, which didnt do much of anything about that frequency. The only thing that took the edge off was turning the gain back down to about 12 o clock or less, but then that devastating crunch and chug was gone that I was really digging.

Im located in michigan. I've never ever seen anything like that at this store.

The manager came out and talked to me about it all since he was pissed that all these amps were broken. He asked me if I tried different guitars and cables thinking that something was wrong with my guitar that I brought. I told him to pick one out and try himself. He did and then the guy that "bought" the amps in got in trouble. I felt kinda bad for him but at the same time I was getting pretty peeved over it all. Every single amp I wanted was busted. Sheesh!!!

 

[Elpelotero]

The "fizz" you are describing, if we are on the same terms, is not to be found on older 2 channel rectifiers. Try finding one of those and hold on to it if you can.

 

[mikey383]

It's weird that you mentioned the amp started "clicking". My 2 channel did that a few days ago, and then stopped. Had me freaked out for a moment.

Having owned both the 2 channel and 3 channel heads, I've found that the 2 channel versions are less fizzy, and don't have that harshness you describe. They're smoother and the distortion is more defined.

 

[gnarwailnmt]

weird.... the hiss is a frequency right not just the amp being noisy right? the 3 channel rectos have the inherent highmid spike that creates that buzzsaw type tone..... but i've definitely heard 3 channels that sound tight and smooth without that buzzsaw trait... when you go back definitely try different cabs.... try that marshall and see if that have a peavey 6505 cab because they sound pretty good with a recto.... also another cab i highly recommend if they have it there is the egnater cabs that were built for the tourmaster.... awesome cab especially for the price

Have you ever played the Egnater Tourmaster 4100...If so, what do you think?

 

[tobytheplatypus]

the controls of mesa's in general are very sensitive.... one question i have is was it the same cab both times? if not was the cab you were playing through new? i found that brand spanking new v30s (which is most likely what the cab had in them) have a very harsh frequency in the high mids when they're knew... as you break the speakers in that harshness fades to a more smooth midhigh range.....

i'll second this, i had bought a used Triple Rec, and a brand new Traynor YCS412 w/ V30's, and thats exactly what i had experienced.
but now....sweeeeeeeet

 

[Jay22]

Yeah, I fiddled with the tour master for a little while. Its a pretty cool head no doubt, however it wasnt quite what I was looking for. The tones where great and that amp has balls to spare. However it reminded me of older amplifiers which isnt a bad thing at all. The distortion was bit thin a high, less like a warmer marshall or mesa tone. I was told that this amp is really Egnators version of a Mesa, in which it is similar but its missing that tight low crunch over all. Other than that, its a sweet amp for sure. Its also about 2 grand new for the half stack, so you would save some money going that route compared to a marshall or mesa rig.

Overall, its an awesome amb, has tons of options, and looks pretty cool. But it just sounded thin to me, however I would blame the cab for that because I put a triple rectifier on top of the egnator cab and the sound got pretty thin.


Now, on to the two channel mesas....


I hear this all the time. So now I have a question about it. My main concern is this, I use three tones usually, A nice clean, a somewhat distorted tone, and a balls out distortion tone.

How could I do this easily with a two channel amp? Most of the time Im switching quickly between the full distortion and the "half" distortion.
So rolling my guitar volume back is tricky to do so quickly. Thats why I really like the idea of a three channel amp. Usually when I see a big band live, the guitarist has two different rigs to accomplish this and I really dont want to have to do that. Any advice? I always used preamps before so I could have as many channels as I wanted, so this whole just using a head thing is new to me. So any help or advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[Jay22]

the controls of mesa's in general are very sensitive.... one question i have is was it the same cab both times? if not was the cab you were playing through new? i found that brand spanking new v30s (which is most likely what the cab had in them) have a very harsh frequency in the high mids when they're knew... as you break the speakers in that harshness fades to a more smooth midhigh range.....

i'll second this, i had bought a used Triple Rec, and a brand new Traynor YCS412 w/ V30's, and thats exactly what i had experienced.
but now....sweeeeeeeet

Sweet. Thats probably what it was since both the head and cab where used. The cab looked way more used than the head did and they were brought in by two different people. Apparently they are both being repaired now, so the guy is going to call once they are all back and fixed and also they offered me the used gear warranty for free so if it breaks at all, all of the expenses of repair are covered. We shall see...

 

[Elpelotero]

ahh yes, quite the predicament. My suggestion would be get a tubescreamer or BB preamp and then swith it on or off of the clean channel. Otherwise, just sacrifice a bit of tone and for versatility.

 

[jdurso]

weird.... the hiss is a frequency right not just the amp being noisy right? the 3 channel rectos have the inherent highmid spike that creates that buzzsaw type tone..... but i've definitely heard 3 channels that sound tight and smooth without that buzzsaw trait... when you go back definitely try different cabs.... try that marshall and see if that have a peavey 6505 cab because they sound pretty good with a recto.... also another cab i highly recommend if they have it there is the egnater cabs that were built for the tourmaster.... awesome cab especially for the price

Have you ever played the Egnater Tourmaster 4100...If so, what do you think?

i liked it.... i cant compare it to a mesa in terms of tone because its just different.... its more of a rock/hard rock amp..... the gain doesnt touch the brutality of the recto and mark iv.... but its not designed for that IMO.... the cleans are remarkible... i'd say better than my roadster.... theres just so much head room and it has a great feel to it..... overall its a looser amp than a recto or mark iv..... which is why i think its a great rock amp.... not to say that its loose... just looser than a mesa.... lastly its an incredible value.... you can buy a halfstack for under 2000 at GC.... and you can take it down to 15 watts which is an awesome feature.... each channel like the roadster can be set to a different wattage

 

[jdurso]

the controls of mesa's in general are very sensitive.... one question i have is was it the same cab both times? if not was the cab you were playing through new? i found that brand spanking new v30s (which is most likely what the cab had in them) have a very harsh frequency in the high mids when they're knew... as you break the speakers in that harshness fades to a more smooth midhigh range.....

i'll second this, i had bought a used Triple Rec, and a brand new Traynor YCS412 w/ V30's, and thats exactly what i had experienced.
but now....sweeeeeeeet

Sweet. Thats probably what it was since both the head and cab where used. The cab looked way more used than the head did and they were brought in by two different people. Apparently they are both being repaired now, so the guy is going to call once they are all back and fixed and also they offered me the used gear warranty for free so if it breaks at all, all of the expenses of repair are covered. We shall see...

honestly even though the 3 channels are known to be a little fizzy, if that cab was new no matter what head you put on top those v30s are going to sound a littl harsh.... once they break in everything smooths out into a sweetass tone..... definitely check the used halfstack out when it gets fixed and make sure you get a good explination of what happened this way you know what your stepping into if you do go that route

on another note, i would definitely recommend taking a good look at the roadster...... its definitely smoother than your standard DR or TR.... its a lot more like the older 2 channel rectos IMO.....and its only slightly more $$$ than a new TR.... well worth the extra loot IMO because the cleans are so **** good.... again just a suggestion

 

[zappaslaughter]

A little off topic I know, but the GC in sacramento does suck. There is one guy in that store who knows what the hell he is talking about. I won't even deal with the rest of the teenagers who work there. They whine, yes WHINE when I don't buy their BS. I did see a 2006 LSC in there the other day for 900 bucks though. Good deal. That being said I have spent THOUSSANDS of dollars in there. I walk in and take 20% right off the top of their asking price and then let them work me up to about 10-15% off, while constantly reminding them I spend serious cash on gear. Skips music is not much better, nor is Northridge. Music stores kinda blow in this neck of the woods.

 

[jdurso]

A little off topic I know, but the GC in sacramento does suck. There is one guy in that store who knows what the hell he is talking about. I won't even deal with the rest of the teenagers who work there. They whine, yes WHINE when I don't buy their BS. I did see a 2006 LSC in there the other day for 900 bucks though. Good deal. That being said I have spent THOUSSANDS of dollars in there. I walk in and take 20% right off the top of their asking price and then let them work me up to about 10-15% off, while constantly reminding them I spend serious cash on gear. Skips music is not much better, nor is Northridge. Music stores kinda blow in this neck of the woods.

yeah man.... i feel spoiled because the GC near me isnt so bad and being friends with the manager helps..... but the Sac GC is the worst.... like you said really only one guy in there who is worth talking to.... but i will say there is one chick in there who is smoking and actually knows what she's talking about.... but its a haven for me when im gone from my rig for two-three weeks at a pop... and lately it has been just sacramento which kinda sucks