Heartbreaker noise/distortion problem!!

[onebigtrip]

Hey all, my Heartbreaker combo is having some wierd issues. i bought it used about 5 months ago, and either didn't notice this earlier or it just started occurring. Im getting a loud intermittent distortion when i play a note or chord, especially when its at high volume or i strike the note hard. what happens is I hit the note, and then i hear what sounds like a white noise distorted sound that lasts for a second, then it stops. then i hit a note hard again, and another 1/2 second or 1 second of loud distortion then stops. it doesn't seem to happen nearly as bad or at all if im at low volumes or not pushing the amp to hard.

I thought it might be bad/old power tubes, so i slammed 4 brand new ones in today but that didn't do the trick. is it possible that it could be pre-amp tubes? from what i was told, all the tubes in this thing are very old (5 years maybe). I'm just hoping its a quick fix Any thoughts? im gonna take it to a tech monday...

thanks for any help!

 

[mdortona]

I would PM board member Monsta-tone (Andy Turner). He is an amp wizard and knows the Heartbreaker fowards, backwards, and sideways. He also does killer Heartbreaker mods (he did mine). To top it off, he is a helluva nice guy 8)

Matt

 

[thunda1216]

sounds like a preamp tube problem to me. I had a similar problem with my heartbreaker head. I replaced the preamp tubes one at a time until I found the culprit (in my case it was the phase inverter tube - V5).

ty

 

[mdortona]

I agree with Thunder - could be preamp tubes.

Matt

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Hey thanks Matt!


I would definitely think it is a preamp tube.
The best way to diagnose it is to see if this happens in both channels and if it happens in both modes of each channel.

If it's both channels:
V5 - Like Thunda said, is the Phase Inverter, which is the last preamp tube before the signal goes to the power tubes.
V6 - Reverb tube
V7 - FX Loop tube. Even if you have nothing plugged into the Loop, the signal passes through this tube.

If it's channel one only:
V1a - (1st half of V1) is Hi gain mode only
V1b - Both Hi & Lo gain modes
V2 - Both Hi & Lo gain modes

If it's channel 2 only:
V3a - Hi gain mode only
V3b - Both modes
V4 - Both modes


If the tubes are at least 5 years old and the amp has been played a lot, or if you plan on playing it a lot, I would just replace them all. I would definitely swap the new ones in, one at a time though to find out which one is bad. Throw the bad one away and keep the rest for spares.
I also always write the preamp tube place that it came out of on the tube itself with a Sharpie. This can make a huge difference in tubes when you have to use a backup because some of the tubes do not have to have much gain applied, like the Loop or Reverb, but others (gain stages) must have quiet tubes in these places. Otherwise your amp will make terrible noises.

 

[bendervish]

I had the exact same behavior. It was a bad preamp tube, once replaced all was good on that front.

I also have a Heartbreaker - it's currently roleplaying as it's evil twin: the Walletbreaker. I'm hoping you all can help me out with a preamp puzzle (you out there Andy?) I'm looking at cutting down some really distressing troubleshooting and buying a full set of replacement 12ax7s from Mesa so I have fresh glass all the way round. Before I hit that checkout button, can someone tell me what is meant by 'must have quiet tubes put in place?' I don't see options in the 12AX7 tube selection except the SPAX7-A and the 12AT7 - should they be used in the Heartbreaker? The manual only discusses 12AX7 tubes. Advice? Experience? - thanks -b


For anyone interested in the back story:
I picked up a Heartbreaker about 18 months ago, and the tone was lust at first listen. It needed minor work (I thought) when I first bought it, and after finding a tech in Seattle willing to work on it - it's now been serviced at least a half dozen times since for a variety of ills. It's been particularly prone to blowing fuses. In the past, we'd been able to isolate that behavior to what appeared to just be a series of crappy 5AR4 tubes (different mfgrs) and the problem ceased after the 3rd or 4th replacement tube was dropped in. It sounded fine for about 10 months.

In November I replaced all 4 6L6 tubes (they were having classic Rice Krispies failure during a studio session) making them the second full fresh set of power tubes in these 18 months. I do ride it pretty hard, use fuzz pedals, gig a few times a month, it gets about 6 to 10 hrs a week at high master and moderate main volume. More if I'm lucky. Pretty light duty, really.

The fuse problem returned 2 weeks ago (during a gig no less) and one of the preamp tubes had become hyper microphonic a couple of days prior. That preamp tube was replaced (V3 or V4 with a jj brand) and I replaced the 5AR4 (w/ mesa brand) just for good measure. Looking more closely I've noticed the remaining 12AX7s look old or at least middle aged. It blew a fuse again on Saturday night (1st song), I replaced the fuse and it went the rest of the set sounding pretty great.

Even though my conscientious tech thinks it's overkill, it seems wise to replace all the preamp tubes with reliable, non-specialty glass direct from Mesa. To eliminate that area from the troubleshooting process at a minimum, and for just good hygiene on a great sounding but increasingly testy old lady. I can probably start re-introducing glass with 'personality' once I get her back on the track. Love to hear some thoughts here.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I used to replace every tube in every amp when I bought it.
Then, one day, I realized just how expensive it was.

Lots of guys like the SPX tubes.
Lots of guys like the AT7's.

My Heartbreaker has (or had last time I looked):
V1 Electro Harmonix 12AY7 (great sparkling cleans)
V2 Ruby High Gain 12AX7
V3 Mullard 12AX7 (from an old Bogen PA head)
V4 JJ High Gain 12AX7 (from eurotubes)
V5 JJ High Gain 12AX7
V6 JJ High Gain 12AX7
V7 Mesa 12AX7 (original Chinese tube)

Power tubes are JJ E-34L Blue.

My amp flat out sings the blues!

Not sure about your fuse issue though.
I've gone through batches of rectifier tubes in mine.
I would say that if it were my amp, I would buy an NOS rectifier or 2. The modern ones just can't hold up in a 100 watt amp!
If you like the tone, don't waste your money on Mesa preamp tubes! I do like the newer Chinese ones though!

 

[bendervish]

Thank you Monsta, much appreciated. I found some more on descriptions on the Eurotubes tube description page at http://www.eurotubes.com/euro-e.htm and I think I glean the quiet tube comment now.
It's also good to know that the repeat failing rectifier thing is fairly common, sometimes I begin to wonder which vain and petty god I've offended. If she doesn't respond to new glass, I'll repost for guidance, no news is good news for now. Cheers!

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I'm pretty sure that the manual suggests using the "Variac" or "Tweed" setting if you are using the tube rectifier.

 

[bendervish]

Thanks for checking back Monsta, I just looked. In the opening pages they advertise using the Rectifier Select technology at full power, though they talk about using Bold/Curvaceous and engaging Tweed for vintage feel. The back panel and manual do say to use Tweed and Tube Rectifier settings when using 6v6 tubes in a way I take to mean Mesa is saying when using 6V6s the amp should not be set at full power or in silicon rectifier mode. Hmm.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

The 6V6's usually can't handle the higher voltages that the amp produces in Full & Diode modes.
I experimented with these settings and my 6V6's got extrememly hot. The bias was also way off!

I used to run my amp with E34L's in Full/Tube settings on Bold, but it kept blowing rectifier tubes up.
Now, I've gotten used to the Full/Diode setting and just keep it there.

I loved the amp with 6V6's, but it did not sound very good at bedroom to mild practice volumes.
It did, however, sound freakishly incredible at band volume!

The EL's just had way more chime for the cleans though, so they won in the end!

 

[Analog Kid]

I really like 6V6's in my Dual Rec. In my Heartbreaker it sorta depended on the mode and what speakers i was running through. It's sad, but my Heartbreaker isn't working now. Breaks my Heart!

 

[Tweeked]

Non working Heartbreakers???? Say it ain"t so
Bought a used one 3 yrs ago,kept blowing fuses and finally the rectifier tube.
Took out the tube socket with it.
Two suggestions:
1)Download the manual from the Mesa site and read the tube troubleshooting section.
2) Call Mesa ,they can help you troubleshoot.Mine eventually went to a Mesa service center and I haven't had a problem since.

Good luck guys,it's a killer amp when it's working properly.
PS took a while to get ir right with all the tube combinations.
The manual is a big help

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Tweeked,

What did Mesa say was wrong with your amp after they fixed it?

 

[Tweeked]

MT,

IIRC the rectifier tube socket had to be replaced.
When the rectifier tube went it damaged the resistor,they replaced the whole thing.
I had no Idea how old the tubes were when I got it.JJ GZ34 was the culprit.
Finally put a new Mesa in there.Could have been an old tube(?)
Winged C 6L6's that came with it still working fine.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Pretty sure that all of the rectifier tubes I've had fail in my HB were JJ's too!

I used to love their tubes, but have really grown tired of replacing them.....

I'll drop an NOS rectifier in mine as soon as I have the cash.

 

[bendervish]

JJ 5AR4 rectifiers consistently failed for me. One from Tube Amp Doctor worked out in that role without too much problem until recently.

 

[Tweeked]

Interesting we all had trouble with the JJ rectifier tube.
Tubes are finicky sometimes......

 

[Monsta-Tone]

:lol: I use the JJ 5AR4 in just about every Fender clone I build and almost every Fender amp that comes through the shop.
I think that the HB just puts way too much strain on a single rectifier tube.

The newer amps with, "Rectifier Tracking," won't even give you the option of full wattage with a rectifier tube setting. Sure, you can set the switch that way, but it won't happen......I would have personally preferred that my LSS come with 2 rectifier tubes, so that I could have run it on full power with "Tube" setting.

 

[thunda1216]

If you can find a NOS GE 5AR4, it will hold up really great. I have been using this one for 5 years now. They are heavy duty, with less sag, but still great tone. The next choice is the Shuguang. Better tone, less reliability (in my experience with the Heartbreaker over the last 13 years). They seem to be good for 2 or so years of hard use before failing. Another note on the fuses blowing: if the power source has sags/spikes, the fuse will blow. I have played venues with my Heartbreaker that had insufficient power circuits and a sudden drop in voltage caused the fuse to blow. i would recommend a surge protector type power strip to be used . YMMV